AGM Feedback

[partickthedog]

56 minutes ago, Albert's Ghost said:

True - and in fact we should blow £66 million just for the lolz.

We could buy one of Lord Offord's boats for our away trips to Europe.

[Albert's Ghost]

9 minutes ago, partickthedog said:

We could buy one of Lord Offord's boats for our away trips to Europe.

We're gonna need a bigger boat!

[Lenziejag]

3 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

I don’t follow at all.

This explains why his shares are non-voting shares.

It doesn’t explain why he gets the right to join the Hearts board or to nominate someone else to it.

Just like Donald has at Thistle and just like Kibble (for two positions) does at St Mirren.

I was only commenting on why he hasn’t taken a controlling interest in Hearts. It has still to be tested, though.

[Lenziejag]

2 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said:

Surely we'd blow the £65 million 

 

[Jaggernaut]

2 hours ago, delurker said:

Out of likes, spot on.

The straw-clutching trying to denigrate TJF as 'not representative enough' is ludicrous.

"Fabrication" comes to mind.

[Jordanhill Jag]

4 hours ago, delurker said:

Out of likes, spot on.

The straw-clutching trying to denigrate TJF as 'not representative enough' is ludicrous.

I didn't say that - what I said was that Colin Weirs Representatives decided TJF should not get the Shares - there Membership at the time would have been circa 1200 ( and I'm sure one of the TJF Representatives will give the exact number ) 

So a Minority of Fans decided that Colin Weirs wishes were not to there liking and mounted a very High Profile ( & some of there Supporters very Nasty - eg putting Jacqui Lows Home Address on Social Media) along with various attacks on the Thistle Trust People who got the Shares 

At the Time our a certain Journalist was very Supportive of the Claim - Prior to him starting to publish the Thistle Version of the Celtic View.

Now some would argue the Ends Justify the Means ( even if it went against Colin Weirs wishes ) - but harsh reality is the Club Performance as a Business is Worse than it was under Jlo ~ with marginal improvement on the Park - ie we got to 2nd rather than 4th in the Play Offs 

And Colin Weir definitely did not hand over the Shares to see 20% of them Sold Off Shortly afterwards 

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

"Fabrication" comes to mind.

Where have I "fabricated " anything ? 

Or is this another variation of me being called a Liar- when I was stating the Club Finances were unsustainable ? 

Edited May 1 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Jags Foundation was due to get shares till they pressed to do financial due diligence, then they were called “not fit or proper” and The PTFC TRUST was gerrymandered to be a puppet recipient of fan ownership 

 

Foundation of Hearts have 8000 members from a support nearly 3 times that

The Well Society have 2500 members from nearly 8000 season ticket holders

 

1900 TJF members from a support of around 4000 I think is a bloody good ratio.

And all these Clubs ( including St Mirren ) have used there Fan Ownership to drive the Club forwards 

As Club - we are stagnating in the Championship 

As a Business - we are going backwards  

 

[Jordanhill Jag]

5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

You’re shifting the goalposts here.

Your original claim was, and I quote, “highly unusual” for a specific minority shareholder to be given a guaranteed right to sit on a football club board. I could also have pointed out that even after Foundation of Hearts became the majority shareholder, Anne Budge also retained such a right under the Bidco Agreement they had.

It is therefore surprising that you claim you are “not aware of any other Club with a similar arrangement for a Minority Shareholder” when there are high profile examples of it, and at that at another Scottish fan-owned club.

I could also mention St Mirren, where the main minority shareholder was also given not one but two guaranteed nominees under its equivalent of the Club-Trust Agreement.

Notable minority shareholders who have invested financially don’t just rarely get guaranteed representation on the boards of majority fan owned football clubs; it is a common situation and typically a consequence of blending fan ownership with the need for private capital.

If your beef is with the other rights attaching to the main Class C shareholder, just say so. TJF have often said that, all other things being equal, we would have preferred a deal that didn’t involve dilution of voting share capital.

But board representation, the specific point you made, is a clear red herring, because minority shareholders get board seats, either through special classes of shareholders or through shareholder agreements, almost routinely. It’s part and parcel of many small and medium sized businesses.

There is of course another important difference between Donald’s shareholding and Tony Bloom’s, and that’s that no one involved ever actually expects that Donald (or others who invested alongside him) will get his (or their) money back, himself included. While his shares are in theory redeemable if we sell Ben Stanway to Barcelona for £3 million, in practice the Club is unlikely to be in a position to trigger the redemption any time soon.

Tony Bloom has 29% - not 8% 

And he doesn't have the Right of Veto ( in fact he doesn't even have Voting Rights) 

And all the Clubs mentioned + Motherwell + Falkirk have all made a success of Fan Ownership

We are going backwards as a Business - compared to Jlo Board & stagnating in the Championship 

So maybe ask why there succeeding and we are not -under Fan Ownership 

 

 

   

[Jordanhill Jag]

5 hours ago, Woodstock Jag said:

You’re shifting the goalposts here.

Your original claim was, and I quote, “highly unusual” for a specific minority shareholder to be given a guaranteed right to sit on a football club board. I could also have pointed out that even after Foundation of Hearts became the majority shareholder, Anne Budge also retained such a right under the Bidco Agreement they had.

It is therefore surprising that you claim you are “not aware of any other Club with a similar arrangement for a Minority Shareholder” when there are high profile examples of it, and at that at another Scottish fan-owned club.

I could also mention St Mirren, where the main minority shareholder was also given not one but two guaranteed nominees under its equivalent of the Club-Trust Agreement.

Notable minority shareholders who have invested financially don’t just rarely get guaranteed representation on the boards of majority fan owned football clubs; it is a common situation and typically a consequence of blending fan ownership with the need for private capital.

If your beef is with the other rights attaching to the main Class C shareholder, just say so. TJF have often said that, all other things being equal, we would have preferred a deal that didn’t involve dilution of voting share capital.

But board representation, the specific point you made, is a clear red herring, because minority shareholders get board seats, either through special classes of shareholders or through shareholder agreements, almost routinely. It’s part and parcel of many small and medium sized businesses.

There is of course another important difference between Donald’s shareholding and Tony Bloom’s, and that’s that no one involved ever actually expects that Donald (or others who invested alongside him) will get his (or their) money back, himself included. While his shares are in theory redeemable if we sell Ben Stanway to Barcelona for £3 million, in practice the Club is unlikely to be in a position to trigger the redemption any time soon.

There is also another Scenario - if we go bust- the Preference Shares pay out first ( which is the whole point in making them preference shares ) - and our Assets will cover there Value.

TJF could have looked for alternative funding at the time - we had Directors Loans and potentially other offers 

And we definitely didn't need to sell off Tranche 2 - TJF created that position by agreeing a £280K loss making budget -without adequate Cash Reserves to cover it   

[Fawlty Towers]

In one sense I am glad this thread is getting some activity after a dormant phase but, for me anyway, the most important thing is how we use what is in place to, as Jordanhill Jag says, drive the club forward not a history lesson. Who said what to who and what the intentions of someone who is no longer around to defend/explain himself, whilst not unimportant, are not the most pressing issues.

Hopefully in a few weeks time we are a Premiership club again but that probably makes things, certainly in the short term, harder to a degree as yes we get more income but we need to "up our game" off the pitch even more then just to catch up to the level of the lower half teams at the moment.

I will wait and see what the strategic plan says and more importantly how we are going to implement the ideas as that is going to be crucial regardless of how the playoffs pan out. Thankfully we have a coaching team in place that looks like it knows what it is doing.

[Jaggernaut]

Minor point for some, perhaps, but if you want any semblance of credibility: "their," not "there."

[delurker]

41 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

As Club - we are stagnating in the Championship 

 

I take some of your points about financial performance, but this 'stagnation' in the Championship is just not borne out by the facts.

We're in the promotion playoffs and have just had our highest finish since the last time we were promoted.

Let's see where we are come 25th May before moaning about 'stagnation'.

[Jordanhill Jag]

3 minutes ago, delurker said:

I take some of your points about financial performance, but this 'stagnation' in the Championship is just not borne out by the facts.

We're in the promotion playoffs and have just had our highest finish since the last time we were promoted.

Let's see where we are come 25th May before moaning about 'stagnation'.

We have been in the Play Offs four Seasons in a Row - and each Year we target the Play Offs 

Finishing 4th or 2nd makes zero difference-  unless your promoted 

the only way that happens is if we are competently run off the park to ensure we can fund a proper promotion challenge eg - we did not strengthen in January because of lack of Funds which most likely cost us promotion.

There is No Strategy to get us promoted - the Strategy is the Status Quo ( + some 5 Year Plan Sprinkles to dress it up )    

We do not have a Set Up that gets us promoted 

[delurker]

15 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Finishing 4th or 2nd makes zero difference-  unless your promoted 

...

We do not have a Set Up that gets us promoted 

Finishing 2nd over 4th makes a big difference to your chances of promotion, and nets a chunk more prize money.

Again for the hard of hearing, we will not know whether this setup gets us promoted until 25th May.

[Lenziejag]

If we get promoted, is it going to be the golden egg that we hope ?

[partickthedog]

5 hours ago, Albert's Ghost said:

We're gonna need a bigger boat!

Maybe we need all 6 boats.

[Thistle_1876]

20 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

If we get promoted, is it going to be the golden egg that we hope ?

It has to be really or there is not much point in staying a full time club.

[Jordanhill Jag]

51 minutes ago, delurker said:

Finishing 2nd over 4th makes a big difference to your chances of promotion, and nets a chunk more prize money.

Again for the hard of hearing, we will not know whether this setup gets us promoted until 25th May.

Most of the difference in Prize Money goes in Bonuses 

And its debatable if a gap between games is advantageous 

[Jordanhill Jag]

45 minutes ago, Lenziejag said:

If we get promoted, is it going to be the golden egg that we hope ?

It certainly wasn't previously as overhead increases massively 

So unless its well managed- Finances are eaten up 

[delurker]

3 minutes ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

Most of the difference in Prize Money goes in Bonuses 

And its debatable if a gap between games is advantageous 

Bonuses thing is utterly speculative, if not made up.

You would seriously argue that having to get through 6 play-off matches in quick succession to get promotion, with each opponent having the away first advantage, is better than 4 with a week's rest before you start?

[Norgethistle]

6 hours ago, Jordanhill Jag said:

And all these Clubs ( including St Mirren ) have used there Fan Ownership to drive the Club forwards 

As Club - we are stagnating in the Championship 

As a Business - we are going backwards  

 

Grasping at straws as there’s clearly an agenda Jim. TJF have put more that £500k into club, engaged fans, brought back legends and basically been a force for good.

Ask yourself where would the club be without them and their members?

[Jordanhill Jag]

2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:

Grasping at straws as there’s clearly an agenda Jim. TJF have put more that £500k into club, engaged fans, brought back legends and basically been a force for good.

Ask yourself where would the club be without them and their members?

Possibly better run -and maybe even promoted 

Over the two previous Seasons ( excluding this one ) 

Like for Like was a 25% increase in Revenue but with an 11% Reduction in losses compared to the previous two under Jlo 

and we are achieving the Play Offs - same as Jlo 

So the actual increase from TJF has simply gone to Finance Trading losses-  due to poor management

TJF pick the Board and sign off all major Finance Decisions 

No one is grasping at Straws - the numbers are there and we are no better off than we were under the Jlo Board in performance terms 

what you and TJF + there Supporters are suggesting is more of the same with some sprinkles of the “5 Year Plan” to deflect from the fact we are stuck in a loop with the same people -making the same decisions - and no real plan to move us forwards 

everyone objecting to my posts -are the same people who argued for the Financial Carcrash of the last few years -then were surprised at the massive losses 

 

Edited May 1 by Jordanhill Jag

[Jordanhill Jag]

6 hours ago, delurker said:

Bonuses thing is utterly speculative, if not made up.

You would seriously argue that having to get through 6 play-off matches in quick succession to get promotion, with each opponent having the away first advantage, is better than 4 with a week's rest before you start?

The nearest we came to Promotion was when we finished 4th under Dools 

[Fawlty Towers]

Putting it in here rather than start a new thread but welcome to the Board Sandy and Craig.

I know Sandy from his time on the board of TJF and Craig has a long history of involvement with the club - confident both will do a good job.

https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-news/two-new-appointments-to-club-board/

https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/update-on-club-leadership-team/

Edited May 29 by Fawlty Towers