Jags v Spiders

[The Legend Blows]

1 hour ago, Emsca said:

You’ll be staying away till we start scoring ?

Thats really positive and helpful for the team .

What's the point in blindly paying for a season ticket for last season and this, when it's clear as day Baraclough and Wilson have failed to replace Brian Graham's goals. 

I can only hope Horn going on loan is a sign we're getting someone else in. 

[Fearchar]

21 minutes ago, The Legend Blows said:

The game wide average is a goal every 3 in 100. Even accepting the emergence of set piece coaches and teams being corner specialists, it'll still be single figures out of 100

From what a cursory online search reveals, the stats are generally misleading as they only count scoring from the first touch after a corner.

One obsessive's data gave a different picture (although I suspect that the phrasing is misleading, and it should say that 4.74% of corners resulted in a goal - the result that would probably have been sought): "One Reddit user analysed 115,199 corners taken in 11,234 matches to see how much use they were. From those, 1,459 goals were from a corner. This meant an average of 4.74 per cent of goals were scored in some way or another from corners, but just 1.27% of corners led directly to a goal."

At any rate, foutering about on the edges of the penalty box and switching sides is unlikely to lead to scoring either. A more direct approach is needed when the box is packed - one that, nowadays, looks for penalty awards.

Edited August 29 by Fearchar

[Ruchillnomore]

Watching that today was murder. Mark Wilson has to realise that our attacking threat tactically has to be able to change. Too many times cross field passes have to go through 3-4 players before we get it eventually wide which in turn makes us far too slow in turning the opposition. Sometimes there’s nothing the matter with a through ball into a channel for the striker to run onto(if only we had that kind of striker)

in a game like today after about 20 minutes it was abundantly clear we didn’t need a holding midfielder sitting 5 yards of our defenders we were crying out for a midfielder who could play the defence splitting pass not just knock it sideways every time they get the ball. To win this league the midfield are going to have to chip in with at least 20 goals between them. 

[chunky jag]

The most one sided draw i think ive ever seen.

 

queens were just as bad as brechin, so very frustrating we couldnt get the goal. 
 

will play worse and win, had we scored early in 1st half that wda been 4/5-0

[jlsarmy]

9 minutes ago, The Legend Blows said:

What's the point in blindly paying for a season ticket for last season and this, when it's clear as day Baraclough and Wilson have failed to replace Brian Graham's goals. 

I can only hope Horn going on loan is a sign we're getting someone else in. 

Thought the whole point of Ian Barraclough being part of our Club was to scout and identify players who had the ability to play just now or be coached to get to that level .

So far we’ve signed Henderson, Dempsey  , Ingram , McPherson etc , all who have played in the Scottish League and easily identifiable by our management team 

Thought the whole point of our Sporting Director was to widen the horizons either from his “ contacts down South or even his Northern Irish links as well .

So far Ian Barraclough has been a waste of a wage which we could have spent on player recruitment 

[exiledjag]

44 minutes ago, The Legend Blows said:

What's the point in blindly paying for a season ticket for last season and this, when it's clear as day Baraclough and Wilson have failed to replace Brian Graham's goals. 

I can only hope Horn going on loan is a sign we're getting someone else in. 

I agree with the point about Graham's goals.

I thought that we missed Graham last season and in particular his goals from within the 6 yard box. We also saw in a recently televised game Fitzpatrick's frustration when he crossed the ball across the 6 yard box  only to find that there was no one there to direct the ball  into the goal.

I am in no doubt that had Graham been with us last season we would have run St Johnstone to the wire.

Given that we don't have any strikers who can get into the 6 yard box (or who chose not to) quickly enough is there any point in playing two wingers or putting the emphasis on wing play.

If we can't win games like today's where we dominate the game we will not win the league. We are just not scoring enough goals.

A test of formation and tactics approaching for Wilson/Rae.

 

[Barney Rubble]

We didn't miss Brian Graham last season, that's a plain fallacy.

MW and AR changed our system and we were a better team for it.

Regarding today, it was plain that trying the same old, same old which hadn't worked for six corners wasn't going to work, so why continue with a strategy that wasn't bringing benefits?

Two things - we could have driven more low balls across the six yard box instead of launching hopeful high balls. And criminally, we didn't try any shots from the edge of the box, when there were plenty of opportunities to do so.

That said, spinning the analysis on its head, QP's defence was excellent, that cannot be denied.

Edited August 29 by Barney Rubble

[Auld Jag]

Imo today's game was like the training exercise that teams do. One team set up to defend, the other to attack. it is still early on in the season but Samuel and Watt are nowhere near the level they played at last season, which is a concern. Highlight of the day for me was speaking to Chris Erskine on the way up to Firhill. He said his son of 4 1/2 is really into football and he brings him to Firhill whenever he is not working.

[jlsarmy]

40 minutes ago, Barney Rubble said:

We didn't miss Brian Graham last season, that's a plain fallacy.

MW and AR changed our system and we were a better team for it.

Regarding today, it was plain that trying the same old, same old which hadn't worked for six corners wasn't going to work, so why continue with a strategy that wasn't bringing benefits?

Two things - we could have driven more low balls across the six yard box instead of launching hopeful high balls. And criminally, we didn't try any shots from the edge of the box, when there were plenty of opportunities to do so.

That said, spinning the analysis on its head, QP's defence was excellent, that cannot be denied.

Missing BG’s goals this season with Samuel , Watt or Stanway not scoring 

We were slightly an unknown quantity last year but teams like QP will sit in and try and play on the break .

We definitely need a physicality up front to win a game in a different way  

[The Legend Blows]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

We didn't miss Brian Graham last season, that's a plain fallacy.

MW and AR changed our system and we were a better team for it.

I wouldn't say through choice though. Wilson's hand was forced because he didn't sign a recognised striker. 12 months on and history is repeating itself but with even less goals.

[fenski]

2 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Thought the whole point of Ian Barraclough being part of our Club was to scout and identify players who had the ability to play just now or be coached to get to that level .

So far we’ve signed Henderson, Dempsey  , Ingram , McPherson etc , all who have played in the Scottish League and easily identifiable by our management team 

Thought the whole point of our Sporting Director was to widen the horizons either from his “ contacts down South or even his Northern Irish links as well .

So far Ian Barraclough has been a waste of a wage which we could have spent on player recruitment 

Are you seriously suggesting that our player recruitment has been poor during his time?

And there's also the fact that having a Sporting Director means that the Head Coach is more focused on training etc. IMO you have to look at the management team as a whole - Wilson's success is just as much Baraclough's success.

[jlsarmy]

14 minutes ago, fenski said:

Are you seriously suggesting that our player recruitment has been poor during his time?

And there's also the fact that having a Sporting Director means that the Head Coach is more focused on training etc. IMO you have to look at the management team as a whole - Wilson's success is just as much Baraclough's success.

Never said the recruitment was bad but did we need a Sporting Director on circa £50k to bring in players that were playing in our division, that was not the spin we were told when we were told about the Sporting Director role in the first place.

[laukat]

We didn't play badly today just not incisive enough inside the 18 yard box.

I do have some concerns that Samuel may have had the season of his career last season but now reverting to norm this season.

I'm not convinced our midfield 3 has the right shape or balance. With Let'sosa, Stanway and Smyth we are playing almost a 4-1-4-1 which in the early part of last season caught teams by surprise. However teams are playing deeper so Stanway and Let'sosa are not getting the space to run beyond the opposition defence, that means we're only real option is to hope Fitzpatrick or Drozd can unlock the opposition defence. Thought it was strange taking off Fitzpatrick today particulraly when we didn't have a Henderson or GMS to replace him

I think it may be worth look at a midfield of Smyth, Dempsey and Watt and moving more to a 4-2-3-1 as it would allow Watt a free role behind the striker. When we have so little goals in the starting 11, not starting Watt seems wasteful

We could do with a striker and a more creative midfielder in however they are arguably the hardest players to find. 

[exiledjag]

1 hour ago, Barney Rubble said:

We didn't miss Brian Graham last season, that's a plain fallacy.

MW and AR changed our system and we were a better team for it.

Regarding today, it was plain that trying the same old, same old which hadn't worked for six corners wasn't going to work, so why continue with a strategy that wasn't bringing benefits?

Two things - we could have driven more low balls across the six yard box instead of launching hopeful high balls. And criminally, we didn't try any shots from the edge of the box, when there were plenty of opportunities to do so.

That said, spinning the analysis on its head, QP's defence was excellent, that cannot be denied.

1. I think that last season with Wilson and Rae we were a more solid looking  team overall. In terms of scoring goals though we were quite a distance behind St Johnstone. So that is an area where we have to improve and I think Wilson has acknowledged that aleady this season. So agree with you regarding being a better team. 

2. My point about missing Graham's goals maybe a fallacy to you but not to me. IMO it's a valid point to make and the way things are going so far - 4 goals in 3 games- we will miss him this season as well.

I'm not blaming Wilson/Rae for this situation. Graham chose not to return to the 'dressing room. Also we don't know what's been going on behind the scenes. Wilson has talked about the need to win games more comfortably which is just another way of saying we need to score more goals. It also suggests he has been trying to sign a goal scoring striker clearly without success, so far.

From memory last season Samuels and Watt's combined total  in terms of league goals was  around or slightly better than Graham's total for the previous season. If we are going to win this league we are going to need these two (our strikers) to score a combined total of around 35 - 40 goals plus a lot more of goals from midfield  - a point already made elsewhere.

I would be delighted if we do this but I'm afraid I just can't see this happening until we have a midfield that can dominate the opposition and be creative.

So getting back to the point.

We DID miss Graham's goals and although still early in the season if things continue as they are we WILL miss them again this season.

[dl1971]

Usual revisionist nonsense being spouted. It's almost as we haven't lost a home game for 500 days and counting. Not perfect but this is a good thistle team. 

[Jaggernaut]

5 hours ago, Fearchar said:

Regardless of the lack of striker, this team really needs to sharpen up in attack. Counting from the (often unreliable) BBC stats, we seem to have had 19 corners - but not scored once. That indicates a serious lack somewhere. (To my unpractised eye, short corners against an opponent that is packing the box are completely ineffective, and can even result in losing possession.) What conversion rate from corners is the target?

Then there are the tactics close to the end of the game. If the opposition is parking the bus, playing from side to side, even in the opposition half, just spends playing time unproductively.

Instead of concentrating on scoring the winning goal, the team tried to provide a show of attractive football. There is a time and a place for everything, but league position does not depend on moral superiority, and now we're 2nd in the league because we did not play to the conditions. Maybe we're seeing the disadvantage of an inflexible belief in attractive football, as if that were an end in itself.

Correct, the corners were truly pathetic, and of those of the 19 that weren't short, no more than 4 or 5 were reached by a Thistle player. Truly poor stuff. And as for the side-to-side.... 100% predictable.

What is it with Thistle and our too-often failures to beat the worst teams in the league?

Let's hope for a promotion playoff spot again, and if we get lucky, we might win it, because this team does not have the look of a Championship winning team.

[dl1971]

7 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

Correct, the corners were truly pathetic, and of those of the 19 that weren't short, no more than 4 or 5 were reached by a Thistle player. Truly poor stuff. And as for the side-to-side.... 100% predictable.

What is it with Thistle and our too-often failures to beat the worst teams in the league?

Let's hope for a promotion playoff spot again, and if we get lucky, we might win it, because this team does not have the look of a Championship winning team.

So what team does have the look of a championship winning team? Stenny will be sussed out first round of games.  Let's get real. Unbeaten after 4 games. Maybe we are short of a 20 goal striker. But how do we afford that....

[Jaggernaut]

The BBC league table has us and Livi both having played 4, winning 2 and drawing 2. We have the same goal difference, and yet we have 9 points and they have 8. 

Am I missing something?

[FleetwoodJagreborn]

1 hour ago, dl1971 said:

So what team does have the look of a championship winning team? Stenny will be sussed out first round of games.  Let's get real. Unbeaten after 4 games. Maybe we are short of a 20 goal striker. But how do we afford that....

Totally agree Dougie,  what’s the panic ?

[Jaggernaut]

3 hours ago, exiledjag said:

 

We DID miss Graham's goals and although still early in the season if things continue as they are we WILL miss them again this season.

He scored again yesterday, twice, both from inside the 6-yard box, one a volley, one a header. 

I miss him.

[Emsca]

11 hours ago, The Legend Blows said:

What's the point in blindly paying for a season ticket for last season and this, when it's clear as day Baraclough and Wilson have failed to replace Brian Graham's goals. 

I can only hope Horn going on loan is a sign we're getting someone else in. 

The point is you are supposed to be a supporter , ie you support the team . Look the word up .

People who cannot handle not winning and throw their toys out the pram   After a 0-0 draw tend to follow 2 of the other teams in this City .

[scotty]

7 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:

The BBC league table has us and Livi both having played 4, winning 2 and drawing 2. We have the same goal difference, and yet we have 9 points and they have 8. 

Am I missing something?

Aye. It's the BBC! 

[watties wallies]

Do not think the answer is a brian graham type striker. maybe more a doolan type  

agree about the slow build up from defence we probably have the 2 most pacy and gifted wide players in the division

the delay from defence to attack usually has these 2 players being marked by the opposition

why was fitzy subbed yesterday one of our best players

think loughrey had another good game yesterday

 

 

 

[Ruchillnomore]

3 hours ago, Emsca said:

The point is you are supposed to be a supporter , ie you support the team . Look the word up .

People who cannot handle not winning and throw their toys out the pram   After a 0-0 draw tend to follow 2 of the other teams in this City .

And people who put this point of view on are just at the wind up or worse still a Happy Clapper. It’s a forum debate about opinion is allowed and I think anybody following the 2 ugly sisters have enough to debate on their own problems. 

[javeajag]

12 hours ago, jlsarmy said:

Never said the recruitment was bad but did we need a Sporting Director on circa £50k to bring in players that were playing in our division, that was not the spin we were told when we were told about the Sporting Director role in the first place.

Yes.