Should Thistle Start A Campaign

[Blackpool Jags]

Any moves to have yourselves seen as a 'progressive' club are instantly shot to shreds when it becomes known that Neil Lennon and Dr John Reid are prominent individuals within your organisation - enough to make even the hardiest of souls reach for the nearest bucket to boak into. Even if there were tens of thousands of well-meaning Ultras, the job's f*cked by having those two at the helm imo.

[mrD]

firstly, what has neil lennon actually ever done to deserve the bad views of him that are in circulation?

 

someone else on here made an argument earlier on, that whilst it was wrong what happened to that msp and neil lennon, it kinda should be expected for them being vociferous in expressing their idenitiy. To me that argument is not far off structurally from an argument like ' that black dude that put himself up for election should have expected that kkk harrassment hes been recieving)

 

as for john reid, yes that would be a problem for any club trying to position itself as a progressive club, nevertheless, not much of a problem to a club that is well adept in the arts of PR. (an analogous situation is the labour party, there are still people on the left who think there is a progressive kernal in there somewhere )

 

further, the fact that there were (and are ongoing) protests by various sections of the celtic support to him being put in that place also gives rise to the perception of them representing something progressive however ill defined.

 

the argument that i am making is more about perception than substance. but there has never been articulated (to my knowledge) an overarching critique to the progressive myth that abounds about celtic. its soething ive often considered maybe writing a book on, but given that im more of a pleb than a histortian or political commentator its something ive kinda talked myself out of doing.

Edited May 13, 2011 by mrD

[stillresigned]

I can see where people are coming from in not wanting to involve themselves in politics, in an ideal word that'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and sectarianism directly or indirectly affects everyone.That said I really can't think of a way the Club could seriously make a statement without being accused of adopting a "holy wullie" attitude, however if this cr*p gets any worse, for the sake of our own reputation they might have to.

[mrD]

I can see where people are coming from in not wanting to involve themselves in politics, in an ideal word that'd be fine. Unfortunately, we don't live in an ideal world and sectarianism directly or indirectly affects everyone.That said I really can't think of a way the Club could seriously make a statement without being accused of adopting a "holy wullie" attitude, however if this cr*p gets any worse, for the sake of our own reputation they might have to.

 

there are loads of reasons why there should be an organised left contigent within all football supports. but i won't take us way off topic

[Uncle Psychosis]

What is happening to Lennon isnt right and I would never condone it in any way. But it is folly to act the way he has, as well as the lawyer, and the politician turning up in her celtic top.

 

What---exactly---has Neil Lennon done to become public enemy number 1?

 

He's a mouthy gobshite but so is Jose Mourinho and as far as I know Mourinho has never been sent bombs, bullets, or been attacked on the pitch. Craig Levein probably said far worse about referees after *that* game but he seems to have avoided Scottish football fans wetting themselves with anger every time he opens his mouth. Walter Smith has been disrespectful on a number of occasions (remember *that* Chick Young interview? Hilarious, but hardly professional) but he seems able to live without a police escort.

 

Neil Lennon is massively disliked, and I'm not saying that he's disliked for any other reason than being a mouthy git. But to suggest that anything he's done even remotely warrants the level of venom flung at him is just nonsense. He's a pantomime villain and not really any worse than a Souness or a Wenger or, dare I say it, a Chico. If Scottish football fans are going to behave like animals every time an opposition player or manager winds them up a bit then we should all just chuck it.

 

And are you honestly saying that it was folly for an adult to wear their team's top in public? Is Scotland so backwards that we can't cope with that?

[BermondseyBoy]

Mini celtic by sleath ?

 

We already have anti bigtory and racism campaigns and the old firm are still the same.This whole thing kicked off with the hearts celtic game.What could thistle do to stop celtic fans singing ira and republican songs or hearts fans attacking neil lennon.

 

It won't do any good just a chance for a few right on types to appoint them selfs as so called fans leaders/get them selfs a nice title/a small budget for vague "community work" and gordon peden might came more custom on the north west bus

 

 

Cringe at these type of threads.Just seems to bring out all the reds under the bed who want to turn thistle into some kind of political freak show

 

I like supporting thistle cause lots of gd characters.Salt of the earth people from maryhill summerston whiteinch possil yoker clydebank thornwood drhumchapel partick scotstoun springburn ect the people are proper there not intrested in thistle becoming european style ultras or some self styled team of the progressive left.Who wants a bunch of middle class university lefties/luvvies supporting us.Firhill is rubbish now and it's partly cause firhill is so full of these people.

 

Away games are much better cause your around proper thistle people.I couldn't bear away games becoming full of hooray henry's.Not the thistle way cause we're a football team and when we we create an atmosphere we do it with our voices.Not drums not those crappy horns they had at the world cup not bouncing around like idiots ala wee group of falkirk diddies in the cup or Livingstons wee group of pube-less tadgers

 

 

Jackie Mac's red army Jackie Mac red army Jackie Mac red army..doesn't have a great ring to it

 

Think these people should go and support celtic.They've got the politics and ultras you so desire

[mrD]

ha, well i don't disagree with everything you say BB.

 

Ultras atmosphere applied here doesn't work, it sounds contrived and to be quite frank its pish. was at the glasgow cup final there at parkhead a couple of weeks ago with my daughter (free tickets from school deal) and the sounds of that GB mob sounded like a school chant.

 

nevertheless, its understandable that any atmosphere has to be 'contrived' in the context of over zealous policing, allocated seating, etc etc

 

as for football being a working class issue, it is precisely because of the issue of class that i think there should be a political dimension to a fan base. the fact that the cost to go to a football game has grown so exponentially over the years has meant that most people are priced out of going to football. At partick thistle, it seems that we have a progressive concessions policy whereby we admit people for being students but its most definately not progressive as it excludes other low income groups such as unemployed people, people on the sick, and of course working poor (ie people that have to get their wages topped up by working tax credits cause they are so shit). The very notion of having discounts for students and other such groups makes it, in a very rough sense a class issue and a notion of derserving and underserving poor.

 

 

There has also, as you have mentioned been an attack on the general culture within the game, and i for one am definitely not for the police, the club or any other top down way of attacking fan culture. I am MOST DEFINITELY against the promotion of a 'family atmosphere' or any other euphemisms for the sanitisation of terrace culture. I believe strongly in self policing.

 

That said, one does not have to be middle class to be a 'red' and there is no necessary correlation between being working class and far right stuff (not that im saying your saying that). With the rise of the EDL and SDL and its linking between some fans groups, it is entirely right for fans to organise against those trends arising within ones fanbase. This is not somethign new, this is not something top down from middle class lovies, this is somehting that has been going on in football for 30 years plus. For example, in the 80s there was a millwall branch of AFA.

 

http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fans_miliwall011.gif?w=300&h=294

Edited May 13, 2011 by mrD

[TimeConsumer]

Mini celtic by sleath ?

 

 

What a load of nonsense. Who's trying to turn Thistle into "mini Celtic"?

 

 

Cringe at these type of threads.Just seems to bring out all the reds under the bed who want to turn thistle into some kind of political freak show

 

 

Again, who's said that? Seems like everyone who's advocating a stronger position seems to be anti-bigotry and anti-racist, no-one is saying Thistle should become a "political freak show" (whatever that means). Personally would never attempt to attach my political beliefs to any other fans or to Thistle at large, however, the club and the fans have a history of being against bigotry no? That's political in itself whether you like to admit it or not.

 

I like supporting thistle cause lots of gd characters.Salt of the earth people from maryhill summerston whiteinch possil yoker clydebank thornwood drhumchapel partick scotstoun springburn ect the people are proper there not intrested in thistle becoming european style ultras or some self styled team of the progressive left.Who wants a bunch of middle class university lefties/luvvies supporting us.Firhill is rubbish now and it's partly cause firhill is so full of these people.

Away games are much better cause your around proper thistle people.I couldn't bear away games becoming full of hooray henry's.Not the thistle way cause we're a football team and when we we create an atmosphere we do it with our voices.

 

We don't though. The atmosphere is guff. Any attempt to improve that should be welcomed. And the idea that Firhill is rubbish because it's full of "luvvies and lefties"? Jesus wept. Firhill's shite cause the stadium's been reorganised in a hamfisted way, the product on the pitch is poor and folk are being priced out of the games.

[BermondseyBoy]

ha, well i don't disagree with everything you say BB.

 

Ultras atmosphere applied here doesn't work, it sounds contrived and to be quite frank its pish. was at the glasgow cup final there at parkhead a couple of weeks ago with my daughter (free tickets from school deal) and the sounds of that GB mob sounded like a school chant.

 

nevertheless, its understandable that any atmosphere has to be 'contrived' in the context of over zealous policing, allocated seating, etc etc

 

as for football being a working class issue, it is precisely because of the issue of class that i think there should be a political dimension to a fan base. the fact that the cost to go to a football game has grown so exponentially over the years has meant that most people are priced out of going to football. At partick thistle, it seems that we have a progressive concessions policy whereby we admit people for being students but its most definately not progressive as it excludes other low income groups such as unemployed people, people on the sick, and of course working poor (ie people that have to get their wages topped up by working tax credits cause they are so shit). The very notion of having discounts for students and other such groups makes it, in a very rough sense a class issue and a notion of derserving and underserving poor.

 

 

There has also, as you have mentioned been an attack on the general culture within the game, and i for one am definitely not for the police, the club or any other top down way of attacking fan culture. I am MOST DEFINITELY against the promotion of a 'family atmosphere' or any other euphemisms for the sanitisation of terrace culture. I believe strongly in self policing.

 

That said, one does not have to be middle class to be a 'red' and there is no necessary correlation between being working class and far right stuff (not that im saying your saying that). With the rise of the EDL and SDL and its linking between some fans groups, it is entirely right for fans to organise against those trends arising within ones fanbase. This is not somethign new, this is not something top down from middle class lovies, this is somehting that has been going on in football for 30 years plus. For example, in the 80s there was a millwall branch of AFA.

 

http://therebelbull.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/fans_miliwall011.gif?w=300&h=294

 

But whats that got to do with us.EDL are a bunch of thick twats but has ANYONE ever seen them near firhill or even heard of them with anything to do with thistle.They probably don't even know who we are.There just a covenant bogey man.Fair enough if they were handing out leaflets outside but there not and probably never will.If they do they'll get moved on by the police and it's not like many people will take there stuff.So it's not really worth wetting our pants about or spending years preparing and changing our support for

 

 

We need to get a good team on the pitch repair that unspoken link btw fans and club which seems to have been broken.Lower prices /put the heart back in the club by getting the old staff bk like campbell hughes ricky n chico and proper thistle people around the place and get bk to our roots by putting the fun swagger adventure and pride back in the club.Build up the away support again with the old supporter buses.We need a fearless attitude that allows to get in about the big boys and show them no respect. We need to get back what we had.Being a self styled team of the progressive left and European style ultras won't work cause thats further away than ever from the team we all know and love

 

 

We tried going down the st pauli brand route with pink strips.Novelty vaule attract alternative fans and it hasn't worked cause thats not who we are.

 

The bid to take over Partick Thistle has been called off for the time being. A consortium of Asian businessmen in Glasgow had hoped to secure a 51 per cent controlling share in the club, but have drawn back after their move sparked a furore.

 

The group have been shocked by reaction in the media and from the Partick chairman, Jim Oliver, who said on the club's telephone information service that he would not sell his shares to "an Indian who runs a curry shop"

 

Our name is already mud in these type of circles.You guys are living in cloud cukoo land

[Blackpool Jags]

Just to be clear, I loathe any sort of sectarian behaviour, very much including all attempts by proddy extremists to do Lennon in; that's just sick. Now that's off my chest, I nevertheless hate the wee shite with a passion, mainly because of his extreme 'Sellick mindedness' and the contempt that he brings football into. Yes, football - that's what it's all about to me. I make a big enough baws of myself over my political views away from fitba as it is. Saturdays for me are about bingeing on Thistleness, whether I can make it to the game or not, to the exclusion of virtually everything else.

 

Lennon's morbid paranoia, it's worth remembering, had the extreme effect of causing our referees to strike a few months back, thereby endangering a whole week of Scottish fixtures which was only mitigated by the shite weather at that time. His incessant screaming and wailing about the injustices constantly meted out to his twat of a club makes my blood boil every time I see his rancid wee coupon on the media, which, thanks to his perpetual "they're giein me a hard time" pish is every other day.

 

As for the broken sewer that is 'Dr' Reid, the less said the better.

[mrD]

BB - there were rumours doing the rounds that some of the thistle lads were out with the SDL last year. probably bullshit, however, since its not been unknown for some of them to associate with ibrox peeps, its not an impossibility. but yeah, there is not much in terms of substance to that fear atm.

 

lower prices deffos

 

agreed that our name already mud in those circles, but if u look at my first post in this thread, i said that it was ultimately futile for us to go down that route.

 

being brutally honest, i dont think there is any way back for any team in scotland (including the old firm) to have decent crowds with decent atmospheres,

 

the only chance imo would be if we were to amalgamate scottish football with english football (could u imagine thistle v millwall) but that would never be on the agenda and now with independance a possibity thats it dead.

 

at the end of the day the great glasgow alternative is now the premiership, we are down to 80s size crowds and there is no way back. where clyde is now in terms of crowds is where we will be in 5 years time. in ten years time celtic and rangers will be lucky to get 15k crowds

 

But whats that got to do with us.EDL are a bunch of thick twats but has ANYONE ever seen them near firhill or even heard of them with anything to do with thistle.They probably don't even know who we are.There just a covenant bogey man.Fair enough if they were handing out leaflets outside but there not and probably never will.If they do they'll get moved on by the police and it's not like many people will take there stuff.So it's not really worth wetting our pants about or spending years preparing and changing our support for

 

 

We need to get a good team on the pitch repair that unspoken link btw fans and club which seems to have been broken.Lower prices /put the heart back in the club by getting the old staff bk like campbell hughes ricky n chico and proper thistle people around the place and get bk to our roots by putting the fun swagger adventure and pride back in the club.Build up the away support again with the old supporter buses.We need a fearless attitude that allows to get in about the big boys and show them no respect. We need to get back what we had.Being a self styled team of the progressive left and European style ultras won't work cause thats further away than ever from the team we all know and love

 

 

We tried going down the st pauli brand route with pink strips.Novelty vaule attract alternative fans and it hasn't worked cause thats not who we are.

 

The bid to take over Partick Thistle has been called off for the time being. A consortium of Asian businessmen in Glasgow had hoped to secure a 51 per cent controlling share in the club, but have drawn back after their move sparked a furore.

 

The group have been shocked by reaction in the media and from the Partick chairman, Jim Oliver, who said on the club's telephone information service that he would not sell his shares to "an Indian who runs a curry shop"

 

Our name is already mud in these type of circles.You guys are living in cloud cukoo land

[mrD]

BJ i should have made it explicit that i was referring to another persons post. it was the one that uncle psychosis attacked (quite rightly)

 

i can see why people find him annoying but uncle psychosises point pretty much mirrors my view on neil lennon and his behaviour (ie working within the job description of any football manager)

Edited May 13, 2011 by mrD

[lady-isobel-barnett]

this thread is a nonsense thread this question comes up again and again. heres the standard answer i gave to this question elsewhere on this forum ages ago...

 

 

 

as said elsewhere in this thread also, we kinda need to deal with problems within our own support before we try and market ourselves as some kinda alternative. and as said elsewhere we missed the boat regarding positioning ourselves in that market, the space is occupied by celtic, and now the analysis of sectarianism problem in scotland being a problem of anti irish racisim in our society has become far more mainstream - an analysis that fits well with the leftie celtic narrative that plays prominence at parkhead these days...

 

ultimately, if we cannot provide much in a way of an analyisis of what constitutes the sectarian problem in our society then we are just gonnna look like vaccous opportunists trying to exploit a bad situation.

 

so no to this idea.

 

and for people that think we can be a saint pauli, get ******* real, that space is occupied by celtic and further there is no significant organised left wing current in our support, and also when it was promoted as an idea to promote some kinda leftie ultras groups by various people, it was sounded down.

 

concerns for sectarianism should be about concerns about sectarianism - not about turnstyles

So it's alright for Celtic to profit from sectarianism but wrong for another club to try to benefit from a stance on tolerance?

[mrD]

So it's alright for Celtic to profit from sectarianism but wrong for another club to try to benefit from a stance on tolerance?

 

absolutely not. a critique of celtic's practices is imo long overdue. a club trying to benefit from a stance on tolerance is kinda creating a value with a profit motive, rather than being benificiaries from a sincerly held value. if thistle or the fans were to start a 'campaign' as asked by the original question it would come accross as attempting to create a value for the sake of profit, thus being open to the criticism of exploiting deep seated cultural problems in our society. that would not do us any good.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

absolutely not. a critique of celtic's practices is imo long overdue. a club trying to benefit from a stance on tolerance is kinda creating a value with a profit motive, rather than being benificiaries from a sincerly held value. if thistle or the fans were to start a 'campaign' as asked by the original question it would come accross as attempting to create a value for the sake of profit, thus being open to the criticism of exploiting deep seated cultural problems in our society. that would not do us any good.

I agree and said as much earlier. It would undoubtedly backfire.

Apologies I misread your post. I thought you were saying Celtic held some moral high ground instead of a club steeped in sectarianism and continuing to profit nicely from that stance.

[mrD]

ha no worries, its just my shit writing style - always lets me down on essays.

[Winter of '63]

the only chance imo would be if we were to amalgamate scottish football with english football (could u imagine thistle v millwall) but that would never be on the agenda and now with independance a possibity thats it dead.

Thistle v Millwall? Apart from having to play Rangers and Celtic, I can't think of a less welcome visiting team to Firhill. And why would they want to play us?

 

I think we should promote Thistle as Glasgow's Favourite Non-Sectarian Football Club.

[mrD]

thistle v millwall would be amazing...

 

thistle v any team down south would be far better than thistle v livingston.

[beep0608]

the problem is you make statements like 'we are x' and then follow with 'speaking personally' which doesn't really fit well together.

 

speaking personally, hearing wonderous chants such 'they're are only hoors, poofs, and junkies' sang loudly and proudly at morton fans does not sit well a definition of a fanbase that is in any way shape or form progressive.

 

we should maybe take the plank out of our eye before worrying about the speck in our brothers eye.

 

Speaking personally meant that I have my opinion and am not forcing it on you, but I'm part of a "we". We can disagree within ourselves, but that is how I see it, and us. If my folks hadn't objected to Rangers and Celtic way back then I might be somewhere else, though I rejected them myself, at a time when I might have ended up at Ibrox, because I reasoned, how can I support a club that rejects many of my best friends? Thistle, like Barca, more than a club to me. They were and still are my local team, but we all know that you don't automatically support your local team. I wish many more did. We'd all be much better off.

 

If anybody wants to do something about this then count me in. If you don't fancy it then feel free to stay out of it. That's your equal right, and well respected.

Edited May 13, 2011 by beep0608

[BermondseyBoy]

 

 

If anybody wants to do something about this then count me in. If you don't fancy it then feel free to stay out of it. That's your equal right, and well respected.

 

Not really tho.Since if you do something it reflects on everyone at the club and the fans.if u do something like this it should have mass support.Our name and collect identity should belong to our fans not a handfull of extremists who want to go do there own thing ie raise loyalist or republican banners.

 

If the players run out and other teams fans see a flag of bobby sands or johnny adair.It's naive to think thats gonna be viewed as just the thoughts of those people flying it and not a reflection of the wider club

 

There's plenty of people at hearts who hate the union jack brigade but it doesn't stop hearts as a whole being tarred with it and called mini h*ns and this would be the same

[patrick bateman]

I hate this notion that if you support a particular club then you should hold the same political views. This type of thinking i would reserve for the old firm where your allegience to a flag or political standpoint means more than your love for a football club. I can accept that within our support there will be a cross-section of political views some of which would be viewed as completely the opposite of what they believe in . there will be elements in our support who are extreme right/left wing but the fact that these people can have a common love of thistle makes the club stronger. to try and force people to conform to a certain view should not be what thistle are about. We exist in a city where 2 clubs influence the entire country and beyond with their sinister ideology and those you reject this we need to attract and give an alternative to. I like the fact that i know jags fans who are protestant, catholic , right wing , left wing it makes for intersting disscusions in the pub but we all have a common love of thistle and that in my opinion makes our support stronger. the fact that we don't have to conform like sheep and we acn have our own minds. As long as these views are not overtly shown at matches as not to label our support then i feel that is the way to continue.

[Tinyman]

I hate this notion that if you support a particular club then you should hold the same political views. This type of thinking i would reserve for the old firm where your allegience to a flag or political standpoint means more than your love for a football club. I can accept that within our support there will be a cross-section of political views some of which would be viewed as completely the opposite of what they believe in . there will be elements in our support who are extreme right/left wing but the fact that these people can have a common love of thistle makes the club stronger. to try and force people to conform to a certain view should not be what thistle are about. We exist in a city where 2 clubs influence the entire country and beyond with their sinister ideology and those you reject this we need to attract and give an alternative to. I like the fact that i know jags fans who are protestant, catholic , right wing , left wing it makes for intersting disscusions in the pub but we all have a common love of thistle and that in my opinion makes our support stronger. the fact that we don't have to conform like sheep and we acn have our own minds. As long as these views are not overtly shown at matches as not to label our support then i feel that is the way to continue.

 

well said

[TimeConsumer]

I hate this notion that if you support a particular club then you should hold the same political views. This type of thinking i would reserve for the old firm where your allegience to a flag or political standpoint means more than your love for a football club. I can accept that within our support there will be a cross-section of political views some of which would be viewed as completely the opposite of what they believe in . there will be elements in our support who are extreme right/left wing but the fact that these people can have a common love of thistle makes the club stronger. to try and force people to conform to a certain view should not be what thistle are about. We exist in a city where 2 clubs influence the entire country and beyond with their sinister ideology and those you reject this we need to attract and give an alternative to. I like the fact that i know jags fans who are protestant, catholic , right wing , left wing it makes for intersting disscusions in the pub but we all have a common love of thistle and that in my opinion makes our support stronger. the fact that we don't have to conform like sheep and we acn have our own minds. As long as these views are not overtly shown at matches as not to label our support then i feel that is the way to continue.

 

Sorry but how exactly is Thistle open to all if we accept elements in our support who are extreme right wing and are exactly opposed to welcoming everyone in alls walks of life!? Load of blinkered nonsense.

 

If we're a club against bigotry and sectarianism, "the Great Glasgow Alternative", then we need to reject these reprobates as much as we need to reject the OF... regardless of whether it annoys people that it is a "political stance"...

[BermondseyBoy]

Sorry but how exactly is Thistle open to all if we accept elements in our support who are extreme right wing and are exactly opposed to welcoming everyone in alls walks of life!? Load of blinkered nonsense.

 

If we're a club against bigotry and sectarianism, "the Great Glasgow Alternative", then we need to reject these reprobates as much as we need to reject the OF... regardless of whether it annoys people that it is a "political stance"...

 

because everyone politics is there own and private and not worn on there sleeve.So we can all go exist.We've got a long fine at firhill and had no poltical problems so what needs to change ? We've got all got red and yellow on so we can merge as one.Politics doesn't matter.Hand on heart i've never thought about the politics of the guy who sits next to me at firhill..out of all the things this club need a poltical witch hunt isn't one of them

 

 

Should we make far right people sit at the city end/far left towards to the away support and divide the middle with a barrier btw scottish nationalists and unionists since they obviously can't co exist

 

This thread has already proved.This idea could never work.It would only cause more problems.

 

They bring this thread up every few months.They need to accept thistle isn't going to turn into a mini celtic with what the green brigade have or st pauli or something u see from europe on youtube which might see vaguely cool where the whole stadium looks like it's on fire or something from argentina/italy.Where u have crazy ultras who always usally have a political stance to there banners and scarfs n the like

 

These people need to get real.We're lucky if we can stand up at dens park or mcdairmid park nevermind anything esle

[macjag]

Just thinking about all the goings on in scotland atm, well in football especially. Should partick thistle start up a campaign against bigotry or to some effect.

Ive thought a name for the scheme "Not In A Jags Shirt".

Mean i see thistle coming up with schemes to fill firhill etc but shouldnt we give a little

 

Any thoughts on this

Big banner with enough please go please we are fed up with your bigotry give us our country our football and our dignity back we are proud to be scottish good bye old firm dont come back.