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Martin
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The new legislation will no doubt throw up some interesting legal arguments -

 

Ned 1 "Up the 'RA"

 

Ned 2 "Ya Fen**n B*****d"

 

One of them is making a political statement, the other committing an aggravated sectarian offence.

 

I'm not sure why both can't be construed as political statements. The F*****s were a forerunner of the IRA so to treat one organisation as political and the other not seems inconsistent.

 

The problem is not really about whether or not these statements are or are not offensive, sectarian or whatever term you might want to use. It's that our society has effectively tolerated this hate by inaction for many years. It's a cultural change that's' needed and I'm not sure I see where new legilsation plays a role other than as an attempt at a high profile drawing a line in the sand.

 

The history remains unaltered though and open to debate as all such events do

Edited by Allan Heron
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The problem is that the key words are ****, pope and queen and not whether it's "the" or "your"

 

I'm not convinced by the "it's a political message" either. Being of a debating persuasion (and the need to be able to argue whichever side you might be presented with) it's not too difficult to create a defence for both sides of the OF on the same grounds. None of which would make the slightest difference to the need to rid our society of such stuff in the here and now. We're just playing the same game as they are in seeking a reason to continue singing this song. Bin it.

 

Yeah, wasn't gona write that line as it is a bit too 'Celticish'. Political or sectarian, it doesn't matter...no place in football for either (unless it is football politics of course :D ).

 

This is just a case of moving with the times, and we are not exempt from that. In these times we should lead by example, where Rangers fans sings about 'singing what they want' Thistle fans can take the moral high ground (as usual :) ) and, despite not seeing the song as sectarian, knock it on the head or change the words.

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As someone whos name was taken on Saturday think it is time to bin said song or change words as jaggy thistle has done.Spoke to the 2 officers from strathclyde on sat and they told me 6 anti sectarian were at parkhead and the 2 of them were sent to watch us.They also said the old firm fans were just like shoolboys i.e Thistle sing that so we can sing what we like.

 

Defo think they will try and make an example of one of us.

Edited by rodge
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The problem is that the key words are ****, pope and queen and not whether it's "the" or "your"I'm not convinced by the "it's a political message" either. Being of a debating persuasion (and the need to be able to argue whichever side you might be presented with) it's not too difficult to create a defence for both sides of the OF on the same grounds. None of which would make the slightest difference to the need to rid our society of such stuff in the here and now. We're just playing the same game as they are in seeking a reason to continue singing this song. Bin it.

 

Totally agree.

 

I personally am uncomfortable with the song anyway, but even if it was passed by a court as 'political' I still don't see what relevence it has inside a football ground. Why would it make the song any better at a football match, if the singers were able to freely sing it because they were singing a political song? Politics, at a football match? Really?

 

Anyway, I started taking my boy to watch Thistle in the hope that he'd be able to grow up away from the pish that surrounds Rangers and Celtic. FTP and FTQ is irrelevant at Firhill.

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I love the song. It gets right to the fundamental point of the issue. Something that these fascist new laws banning freedom of speech fail to. To put it crudely, that stuff has absolutely no revlevance to good football!

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special.

 

On many occasions I have stood next to Protestant Unionists and Roman Catholic Republicans wearing red and yellow and singing all the words to the song with gusto. Walking through the turnstiles we join in one agenda, LONG LIVE THE JAGS! Regardless of who might be in government, which church is "the people", an absolute mixing of the races, or Zenu the transglactic warlord taking over the planet.

 

The song that really twists ma melon when "Jags fans" sing it is "Flower of Scotland". Keep your saltires for Hampden. Thistle's colours have been red, black and yellow since the 1930s. The only reason I can beleive for people bringing Countries' flags and singing national anthems at club football matches is to push and promote their political beleifs and desires.

 

Yes, we are a Scottish team, but we are not the Scottish team. Rangers fans can justifiably argue they are a Brittish team, as can Celtic make a case for their Irish heritage. Attaching ourselves to Scottish nationalism makes us just as dangerously exclusive as them.

 

Hello hello!

How do you do?

 

:fan:

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At the risk of sounding very childish (probably far too late in my case anyway), I am thoroughly comfortable with the words of the song. I just wish the authorities were equally comfortable with it, and had the savvy to understand what we're getting at. Oh, and the balls to stand up to the twin Pillars of Perdition and tell them to shut their respective gubs, trying to make out we're as bad as them cos we sing a wee song that says f*ck in it as well as queen and pope. :angry:

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I will NEVER EVER stop singing OUR amazing song. I LOVE IT!!

It is easily my fav Thistle song. There's nothing better when it get's belted out at Firhill or on our travels. It makes the hair's on the back of my neck stand up.

 

I urge my fellow Jagsmen to keep singing it.

 

HELLO HELLO, HOW DO YOU DO...

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Like the song, hope it keeps getting sung, as far us getting lumped together with old firm bigotry, Anyone I know has a clear understanding of our song, even my mates that aren't into football know full well our songs are anti sectarian and actually have a soft spot for thistle because of songs such as hello hello how do you do...

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I love the song but I can see where Honved et-al are coming from. As someone who loves the club, I have no desire to see our name dragged into the same mud as the disgusting human waste that we are unfortunate enough to share a city with.

 

It's a very sad day when it has come to this. My hatred for the OF has gone up a notch.

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I love the song but I can see where Honved et-al are coming from. As someone who loves the club, I have no desire to see our name dragged into the same mud as the disgusting human waste that we are unfortunate enough to share a city with.

 

It's a very sad day when it has come to this. My hatred for the OF has gone up a notch.

 

...and so it should. They impinge on your freedom of speech and expression, they cost you money on policing and they drain your favourite sport of resources.

 

But don't give the f****rs any excuse to pull us down to their level.

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Like the song, hope it keeps getting sung, as far us getting lumped together with old firm bigotry, Anyone I know has a clear understanding of our song, even my mates that aren't into football know full well our songs are anti sectarian and actually have a soft spot for thistle because of songs such as hello hello how do you do...

 

The problem with the song is the last line. Although we all know it is just a pop at the bigot brothers, with no sectarian overtones the law may see it differently. As others have have already mentioned, the irony is we could be the easy target.

 

However IMO it would be a pity to drop it altogether as the sentiments remain.

 

If we had to change the line to allow the song to be kept, I'd replace it with:

 

...so **** the h*ns and **** the tic.

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...and so it should. They impinge on your freedom of speech and expression, they cost you money on policing and they drain your favourite sport of resources.

 

But don't give the f****rs any excuse to pull us down to their level.

 

 

 

By who's measure "their level"?

 

I disagree with outlawing songs. They'll be putting you in jail for wearing tartan and playing the bagpipes next.

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You'll struggle to find more of an advocate of unfettered free speech than me, but I think we'd do better to express the same sentiment in other ways. The whole problem with the sectarian debate is that people focus on the words rather than the meaning and we risk things getting lost in translation. Much as we'd like the discussion to take place on a more intelligent and more political level it's not going to happen. If the debate were taking place on that level the sectarian problem wouldn't be what it is.

 

If ever a Thistle supporter were hauled up before a Sheriff for singing it, I think it would probably be dismissed out of hand as ill-advised but no more. But is it really worth taking that chance to make a point we could do so much less provocatively?

 

 

How? This kind of legislation is not a million miles away from the burning of books.

 

I once had a heated argument with a bunch of rangers fans trying to convince them the thistle fans sang, " I'm no' a Killie, I'm a Jag." They were convinced we were all "tims" proudly boasting of our non-protestant persuasion.

 

People are seeking reasons to be offended, displaying a very naive and intolerant attitude for the opinions of others and how they are delivered.

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I'm not sure why both can't be construed as political statements. The F*****s were a forerunner of the IRA so to treat one organisation as political and the other not seems inconsistent.

 

The problem is not really about whether or not these statements are or are not offensive, sectarian or whatever term you might want to use. It's that our society has effectively tolerated this hate by inaction for many years. It's a cultural change that's' needed and I'm not sure I see where new legilsation plays a role other than as an attempt at a high profile drawing a line in the sand.

 

The history remains unaltered though and open to debate as all such events do

I agree with most of this and historically , the F*nians were indeed a political organisation ...but they were an Irish Catholic movement whereas the IRA have, as far as I am aware, no religious affiliations. And in popular West of Scotland parlance, it's a word with clear sectarian connotations.

 

Similarly, I understand that there was a recent conviction for religiously aggravated breach of the peace for use of the H word - I always thought this referred to a bigoted Rangers supporter but the Court seem to have considered that there was some religious element.

 

But surely nobody thinks that there is some profound theological debate between Old Firm fans - it's just tribal baiting which cleans up at the Box Office. But if attempts to enforce the proposed no legislation are put into effect - and I think that the intentions are well-meaning and long overdue - arguments about sectarian/political intent will be raised...and nothing will change. There is a danger that our Hello, Hello song, which is clearly a jibe at the pseudo-religious sentiments of the Old Firm, will be used as a distraction from the real problem - so it might be better to drop it from the songbook.

 

Maybe attempts to put pressure on sponsors and broadcasters rather than attempting to charge the "minority" of offending Old Firm supporters might be more effective in addressing the issue.

 

Personally, I'm offended by the sheer stupidity of it all...

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Love the way some people on here love to argue the finer points of law when the closest they ever get to the law is watching repeats of Ironside on BBC.

And as for those who start talking about freedom of speech and human rights. How come its only YOUR freedom of speech or YOUR human rights that are important? If it's true freedom of speech that you want then there can be no complaints about any songs that any team sing including the old firm.

Edited by Phoenix
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I agree with most of this and historically , the F*nians were indeed a political organisation ...but they were an Irish Catholic movement whereas the IRA have, as far as I am aware, no religious affiliations. And in popular West of Scotland parlance, it's a word with clear sectarian connotations.

 

The Fe****s were formed in America by Irish immigrants but also became the common name of the Irish Republican Brotherhood and ultimately a commonly used term to be applied to any Irish nationalist. It's also become a term to describe catholics in these parts, although the original organisation was one that was not catholic only.

 

None of the major groups involved in the Irish nationalist/republican movements over the years has been solely Catholic, and a number of their most significant leaders were Protestants. It's largely been in the North where the correlation has been strongest

Edited by Allan Heron
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As someone whos name was taken on Saturday think it is time to bin said song or change words as jaggy thistle has done.Spoke to the 2 officers from strathclyde on sat and they told me 6 anti sectarian were at parkhead and the 2 of them were sent to watch us.They also said the old firm fans were just like shoolboys i.e Thistle sing that so we can sing what we like.

 

Defo think they will try and make an example of one of us.

Good point. What exactly is it that people find offensive? Is it the F*** word? What if it became "Forget yer Pope and Forget yer Queen?" That would be seen as a direct form advice to the neanderthals, and could not be considered racist, sectarian, or political by anybody with two neurons to rub together.

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The problem with the song is the last line. Although we all know it is just a pop at the bigot brothers, with no sectarian overtones the law may see it differently. As others have have already mentioned, the irony is we could be the easy target.

 

However IMO it would be a pity to drop it altogether as the sentiments remain.

 

If we had to change the line to allow the song to be kept, I'd replace it with:

 

...so **** the h*ns and **** the tic.

Those Auld Firm bast rascals make me sick....

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to the tune of Ally's Army...

 

 

We don't sing about the Pope, we don't sing about the Queen.

We only cheer on our lads, cause we're the jolly jags,

And Thistle are a family football team.

 

 

 

 

 

Coat.... Pronto!

 

 

 

Hello, hello, how do you do.

We hate the boys in royal blue.

We hate the boys in emerald green.

Cause we're a family football team.

Edited by potty trained
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