Eddie Prentice

[Steven H]

So you'd rather that people meekly went along to the terrapin every two weeks, handed over their sixteen quid, bough their programme and their pie and bovril, and sat on their hands while the squad is reduced, staff are cut, the ground is semi-bulldozed and the support treated with borderline contempt? Yes, that's being Thistle minded. Let's all get shirts with Nero printed on the back while we're at it, eh?

 

Presumably in your book as well the FCUM guys should never have set up the club, and the folk buying green and yellow scarves to wear to Old Trafford should swap them for officially branded club merchandise in case their actions put United further into debt.

 

If a supporter feels strongly enough that they choose not to go watch the club they've seen every year, week in week out, because they object to the way it's being run (or in this case, run into the ground), it's because making an economic protest is just about the only option remaining now.

 

Finger pointing and accusations of not acting in the club's best interest - the old Thistle-minded argument again - does nobody any favours. It shouldn't be a case of 'you're staying away, you're ruining the club', it should be a case of 'why are you staying away, and what would bring you back again?'.

 

Yes you have grasped my point perfectly, jeezo I aint going over it AGAIN, read what I said then read your post...then answer what the stay away fans hope to achieve. That's it, that's as far as it goes for me. The BoD get lambasted for doing things which are not in the best interests of the Club (rightly) so why is it different for fans? How many times has the line 'there wouldnt be a club without the fans' been uttered? Or is that only a viable line to use when moaning about our BoD and their f*ck ups?

 

Oh and at least the Man U fans are turning up in their green and yellow scarfs.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Steven H

[Vladimir Putin]

This is mentioned time and again. How do we know this for definite? We don't, and before anyone starts the usual "knight in shining armour" stuff, I highely doubt there is one out there, but theres always a possibility.

 

With regards to fresh investment, I remember back on .net one poster said that a buisness offered to invest £40k into the playing budget and Cowan never got back to him. Read into that what you want but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Just like it wouldn't surprise me that certain members on the board have lied to the fans regarding new investors if it meant that their positions were under threat.

 

After all were all used to the constant patronising comments coming out of Cowans mouth, aren't we?

 

I know fans forums are an unreliable judge of opinion and not representative of the fanbase, but let's assume that the fans in general are as unhappy with the board's performance as you suggest. How long has this situation been going on? 5 years? Longer? And in this time, have any realistic alternatives emerged? As pointed out above, if there were groups of fans being rebuffed by Cowan and Co, why would they then keep quiet about this? I think it's time to accept that there are no alternative owners/boards out there, and we have to make the best of what we have. That may mean trying some BoD memebers in different positions, and I know you could say this is merely shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic, but I don't see what choice we have.

 

I'm not applying this to you, but it seems to me that there are fans out there who actually enjoy bashing the board and take great pleasure in discovering potential, and indeed actual, screw-ups. This isn't healthy for anyone, we have enough problems as it is.

[Steven H]

Then you are a far more patient and tolerant person. Arguably, that would make you a better fan of the club.

 

Not more patient and tolerant, more pragmatic maybe. Maybe the difference is the Club and its survival are more important to me than how I have been/might be treated by XYZ on the board. Maybe its the fact that we will be here supporting this Club long after Messers Cowan and Hughes are gone (assuming we still have a Club) and for that reason we should be looking at better ways to show our anger or unsatisfaction than simply staying away.

 

There is not one Thistle fan who is any better than the other, all Thistle fans are quality

[chapwithwings]

Yes you have grasped my point perfectly, jeezo I aint going over it AGAIN, read what I said then read your post...then answer what the stay away fans hope to achieve. That's it, that's as far as it goes for me. The BoD get lambasted for doing things which are not in the best interests of the Club (rightly) so why is it different for fans? How many times has the line 'there wouldnt be a club without the fans' been uttered? Or is that only a viable line to use when moaning about our BoD and their f*ck ups?

 

Oh and at least the Man U fans are turning up in their green and yellow scarfs.

 

See, this is the bit I don't get Steven. You say why is it different for fans? Because that's the way the club runs. We have a board of directors who have, reportedly, refused offers of investment, who have over the course of the last half decade continually failed to progress the club financially, made a stream of poor decisions and appointments, cut staff numbers to the bone, alienated the support and now plan to bulldoze half the ground - having sold it to themselves in the process - in a last-gasp bid to wring some final cash out of the mess they've left.

 

And what can fans do about it? One thing. Stay away. We don't have substantial voting rights. We don't have the power to make changes at the club. All we have is the power to say 'This week, you don't get my £16. This week, I choose not to give you the money I have earned through my own hard work to reward your failure.'

 

There's a word for it. It's called a boycott.

 

Quite frankly, I'm shocked at your admission you think fans should sit there and not express any discontent at the way the club's being run. Because that's what your saying.

 

Pay your 16 notes and take your medicine, because it's for the good of the club? Ba's, quite frankly. Paying the entrance money and putting up with the ever-more-desperate actions of the board is what got us here.

 

If the club planned for an average gate of 3000 a season and are only getting 2000, doesn't that tell you something? That's A THIRD of the support not turning up. Even allowing for folk who can't go because of geography or economics, that's not small change. That's a substantial portion of Thistle's core audience choosing not to go to give their money to the club.

 

You say earlier in the thread you'd look for other methods to deal with the situation than an economic withdrawal of support? Go on then, give me some credible alternatives.

[chapwithwings]

There is not one Thistle fan who is any better than the other, all Thistle fans are quality

 

So why are you saying fans who aren't going to Firhill aren't good fans then?

 

And as for supporting this club long after Cowan et al are gone - I'm sure the Thirds fans thought the same in 1966. Bit of a shock for them a year later, wasn't it?

[Junior]

TBH the only way forward for Thistle is for everyone to work together , put aside differences and just get on with what needs to be done. Too many people on both sides of the argument are acting like 5 yo kids (maybe they are ). IMO when people finally realise this is the way to go it will be too late.

 

Would like to see a proper Q&A between fans and the board with pre submitted questions , not like the one that was in the AR lounge a few years back that from the start degenerated into farce when they let 3 old lunatics rant on for 30 mins and the rest of us never got to ask the questions we had wanted. Maybe one for the JT to try and setup ?

[Steven H]

So why are you saying fans who aren't going to Firhill aren't good fans then?

 

And as for supporting this club long after Cowan et al are gone - I'm sure the Thirds fans thought the same in 1966. Bit of a shock for them a year later, wasn't it?

 

Am I saying that?

 

Did the Thirds fans roll over and die the way we seem to be doing?

 

Will/can you answer what the fans who choose to stay away in protest are hoping to achieve?

[northernsoul]

I think it's time to accept that there are no alternative owners/boards out there, and we have to make the best of what we have. That may mean trying some BoD memebers in different positions, and I know you could say this is merely shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic, but I don't see what choice we have.

 

That maybe so but I wouldn't see how certain members of the Board swapping positions would help. Maybe if Jim Alexander was chairman he could help build the bridges between the BoD and the fans. A man who alot of folk admire for being very approachable, friendly and even travelling on supporters buses, speaking to the fans face to face.

 

Theres only one outcome for the Club if things remain the way as they are.

 

I'm not applying this to you, but it seems to me that there are fans out there who actually enjoy bashing the board and take great pleasure in discovering potential, and indeed actual, screw-ups. This isn't healthy for anyone, we have enough problems as it is.

 

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, although I can understand why you have that view. I certaintly don't, the last thing I want is to feel more and more apathetic over the Club's current predicament. I want to walk upto Firhill feeling proud of the everything about the Club I support, but I don't.

As time goes on I don't want to attend Firhill every second week out of sheer loyalty, with near on no ambition shown by the club.

Edited July 18, 2010 by northernsoul

[Steven H]

See, this is the bit I don't get Steven. You say why is it different for fans? Because that's the way the club runs. We have a board of directors who have, reportedly, refused offers of investment, who have over the course of the last half decade continually failed to progress the club financially, made a stream of poor decisions and appointments, cut staff numbers to the bone, alienated the support and now plan to bulldoze half the ground - having sold it to themselves in the process - in a last-gasp bid to wring some final cash out of the mess they've left.

 

And what can fans do about it? One thing. Stay away. We don't have substantial voting rights. We don't have the power to make changes at the club. All we have is the power to say 'This week, you don't get my £16. This week, I choose not to give you the money I have earned through my own hard work to reward your failure.'

 

There's a word for it. It's called a boycott.

 

Quite frankly, I'm shocked at your admission you think fans should sit there and not express any discontent at the way the club's being run. Because that's what your saying.

 

Pay your 16 notes and take your medicine, because it's for the good of the club? Ba's, quite frankly. Paying the entrance money and putting up with the ever-more-desperate actions of the board is what got us here.

 

If the club planned for an average gate of 3000 a season and are only getting 2000, doesn't that tell you something? That's A THIRD of the support not turning up. Even allowing for folk who can't go because of geography or economics, that's not small change. That's a substantial portion of Thistle's core audience choosing not to go to give their money to the club.

 

You say earlier in the thread you'd look for other methods to deal with the situation than an economic withdrawal of support? Go on then, give me some credible alternatives.

 

No it isn't, Im saying there must be a better alternative than simply staying away, Im saying staying away is not in the best interests of the club. Credible alternatives can be seen elsewhere on the forum, that alternative means workihng together as Junior says and imo that requires a strong supporters association. That requires change...hawd oan, I'll find the link to the thread where this is discussed.

 

here: http://www.wearethistle.co.uk/index.php?/topic/657-not-looking-good/page__st__40

Edited July 18, 2010 by Steven H

[chapwithwings]

Am I saying that?

 

Well, you're certainly saying fans who choose to stay away from Firhill are damaging the club. That hardly seems a ringing endorsement.

 

Will/can you answer what the fans who choose to stay away in protest are hoping to achieve?

 

I can only make educated assumptions because I'm not one of them - yet. But I absolutely sympathise with them and am getting close to the point where I see no other reason to go to the club than blind loyalty. I certainly see no reason to lambast supporters for actively refusing to give the club money or go to games until some level of change is affected.

 

Let me flip it round - what does blindly going to Firhill every week out of optimism achieve, other than giving the BoD a mandate to continue with what they're doing?

[Steven H]

Well, you're certainly saying fans who choose to stay away from Firhill are damaging the club. That hardly seems a ringing endorsement.

 

 

 

I can only make educated assumptions because I'm not one of them - yet. But I absolutely sympathise with them and am getting close to the point where I see no other reason to go to the club than blind loyalty. I certainly see no reason to lambast supporters for actively refusing to give the club money or go to games until some level of change is affected.

 

Let me flip it round - what does blindly going to Firhill every week out of optimism achieve, other than giving the BoD a mandate to continue with what they're doing?

 

I think my previous post(s) answer that. But let me also flip something (no, not that ), how about the fans who choose to stay away in protest turn up in protest? Wouldn't that be clearer to the BoD? Wouldn't that leave them with no mandate for saying 'what can we do if the fans have stopped coming?'?

[chapwithwings]

I think my previous post(s) answer that. But let me also flip something (no, not that ), how about the fans who choose to stay away in protest turn up in protest? Wouldn't that be clearer to the BoD? Wouldn't that leave them with no mandate for saying 'what can we do if the fans have stopped coming?'?

 

That's a very good question - I've said for some time that what the support needs is a proper, organised show of dissent. Not just booing or the usual muttered "'ksake..." at the end of the game, but a demonstration or protest. I don't think paying in is the way to do it - I'm sure the board would just say 'thank you very much, we're a bit richer now, protest all you want' but something dramatic is needed.

[McKennan]

That maybe so but I wouldn't see how certain members of the Board swapping positions would help. Many if Jim Alexander was chairman he could help build the bridges between the BoD and the fans. A man who alot of folk admire for being very approachable, friendly and even travelling on supporters buses, speaking to the fans face to face.

 

 

A word of caution here, and before it I'd remind anyone who's not as long in the tooth as I am that I have disagreed with 'Jordanhill Jag' many, many times. Jim Alexander is a director of the club. He's a pretty outgoing one. All the plaudits I've read here for him could just as well have applied to the present chairman in years past, even though his name seems to be mud now.

 

Let's not paint another director into a corner. His responsibility is to the club, he's answerable to the board and if he hasn't already, will have to participate in making some decisions fans won't like. No-one put a gun to the man's head to become a Thistle director. He'll do what he thinks is right but, mark my words here, there'll be people tearing him to pieces in the months and years ahead.

 

Give him time and space. You never know, he might just be what you're cracking him up to be, but just don't be throwing fits if he isn't.

[Steven H]

That's a very good question - I've said for some time that what the support needs is a proper, organised show of dissent. Not just booing or the usual muttered "'ksake..." at the end of the game, but a demonstration or protest. I don't think paying in is the way to do it - I'm sure the board would just say 'thank you very much, we're a bit richer now, protest all you want' but something dramatic is needed.

 

Thinking in the long term tho that will achieve very little, but it might be part of a process. For example we have somewhere in the region of 1000 fans missing from Firhill every week (but Id imagine there are many more Jags out there who would likely go that extra mile to show up if we were in the SPL). We also would need new investors prepared to get involved in Partick Thistle, the extra fans through the door would help that (crowds somewhere in the region of Dundee is not unattainable for Thistle imo, maybe then investors such as Melville would take an interest).

 

We would be a more attractive investment opportunity if we could show we did have a large passionate support. That doesn't mean blindly turning up and paying our £16 that means turning up and making some noise (in protest at the BoD and in support of the team). It would also show the current BoD the level of support for this club lurking in the shadows, maybe certain games can be designated for organised protests where we begin by entering late (showing the difference in takings before the protesters enter and after) or leaving early, and building up to full game protests if necessary.

 

Might help to show just how important we are as fans, but until we sort ourselves out we can never challenge those in the boardroom.

[Willjag]

A word of caution here, and before it I'd remind anyone who's not as long in the tooth as I am that I have disagreed with 'Jordanhill Jag' many, many times. Jim Alexander is a director of the club. He's a pretty outgoing one. All the plaudits I've read here for him could just as well have applied to the present chairman in years past, even though his name seems to be mud now.

 

Let's not paint another director into a corner. His responsibility is to the club, he's answerable to the board and if he hasn't already, will have to participate in making some decisions fans won't like. No-one put a gun to the man's head to become a Thistle director. He'll do what he thinks is right but, mark my words here, there'll be people tearing him to pieces in the months and years ahead.

 

Give him time and space. You never know, he might just be what you're cracking him up to be, but just don't be throwing fits if he isn't.

Worth pointing out that Jim isn't on the Board at the moment also. He's an Associate director and not a decision maker on the Executive Board.

[McKennan]

'At the moment', Will?

 

 

[kevin energy]

I have to agree with all your points you have put Stevie H

[Willjag]

'At the moment', Will?

 

 

Don't know why I said that? Went to edit it out and done something else instead and forgot about it.

[McKennan]

Old age. Probably.

[Willjag]

Anyway........ if I were a Director of Partick Thistle I would not expect to make any money from the Club. I wouldn't take shares in lieu of 'good work' I had done (or bad!!!). For me it's a privileged position and that would be payment enough.

 

It's just my opinion and I think when it comes to a Football Club, if you want to accept money for what you do, you become an employee and step down from the Board that will be making decisions that you could influence as to how money within the Club is spent. I stress that's just my take on it and how I would do it if I had the privilege to serve the Club.

 

I suspect most Jags fans would think this way and this is what is irking folk.

[Willjag]

Old age. Probably.

I've still got all my hair though!

[McKennan]

Anyway........ if I were a Director of Partick Thistle I would not expect to make any money from the Club. I wouldn't take shares in lieu of 'good work' I had done (or bad!!!). For me it's a privileged position and that would be payment enough.

 

It's just my opinion and I think when it comes to a Football Club, if you want to accept money for what you do, you become an employee and step down from the Board that will be making decisions that you could influence as to how money within the Club is spent. I stress that's just my take on it and how I would do it if I had the privilege to serve the Club.

 

I suspect most Jags fans would think this way and this is what is irking folk.

 

 

The thing about that is, Thistle is a business and if the business runs well surely those who run it should be entitled to a reward. It's not like it has a charitable or altruistic purpose.

 

Neither, in this fan's view, would it be a privilege. It's a job. That, in theory, protects all those concerned. The club should be able to protect itself from the poor work of bad employees and directors, the latter being removed by the shareholders. That seems to work for other companies.

 

I suspect there are folk on the Jags board who must be wholeheartedly sick of their positions. Similarly, I can only speculate as to why they can't or won't step away if they are fed up. It wouldn't really help.

[McKennan]

I've still got all my hair though!

 

That's a wig.

[Blackpool Jags]

Anyway........ if I were a Director of Partick Thistle I would not expect to make any money from the Club. I wouldn't take shares in lieu of 'good work' I had done (or bad!!!). For me it's a privileged position and that would be payment enough.

 

It's just my opinion and I think when it comes to a Football Club, if you want to accept money for what you do, you become an employee and step down from the Board that will be making decisions that you could influence as to how money within the Club is spent. I stress that's just my take on it and how I would do it if I had the privilege to serve the Club.

 

I suspect most Jags fans would think this way and this is what is irking folk.

 

My own perspective right to the letter.