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Pars In The Playoffs


angry gaz
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Never realized the significance of that at the time.What was it, twenty seconds from safety?

 

It also goes some way towards atoning for that dubious 10-1 defeat at East End Park in 1959, when the Pars had to win by a barrowload to avoid relegation. A weird result if ever there was one. I've often wondered whether it wasn't some kind of "brown envelope" result.

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Never realized the significance of that at the time.What was it, twenty seconds from safety?

 

If only Jeffries hadn't encouraged his players to time-waste so much, including violently motioning that one player to stay down on the ground ... maybe the outcome would have been different, and we wouldn't have had him bumping his gums on the radio about how unfair it all is ...

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It also goes some way towards atoning for that dubious 10-1 defeat at East End Park in 1959, when the Pars had to win by a barrowload to avoid relegation. A weird result if ever there was one. I've often wondered whether it wasn't some kind of "brown envelope" result.

 

it was

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No sympathy at all for Dunfermline. Cheated plain and simple - deserve to go down to the seaside league for a couple of seasons. Don't understand how some fans see Leishman as some kind of saintly saviour who will save all. He was part of the regime that got them into the hole they are in. What goes round comes round. F**k 'em!

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No sympathy at all for Dunfermline. Cheated plain and simple - deserve to go down to the seaside league for a couple of seasons. Don't understand how some fans see Leishman as some kind of saintly saviour who will save all. He was part of the regime that got them into the hole they are in. What goes round comes round. F**k 'em!

 

Can't argue with above in cold hard facts but I do have sympathy with their fans.

 

The only difference between Dunfermline and so called well run clubs like say Morton, Q o S & Ross Co is the difference in the way they've been funded. As I understand it the Raes at Cappielow & Palmerston plus McGregor up at Dingwall have poured millions into their clubs but unlike at Dunfermline the money has been gifted rather than loaned.

 

I reckon the majority of fans of most clubs wouldn't know just how their club is financed. By the time they do find out that the funding is structured in such a way that it's dependent on good will and can be called in, the damage is done.

 

In the case of the Pars the villain of the peace is portrayed as Masterton. Once a banker always a banker and clearly a delusional character who's been found out and the club he was supposed to look out for now suffers. Even at that, much as Gavin M is despicable, the real villain is Yorkston as he's bound to have known about the precarious funding. He's gone along with it and duped much of their fanbase as a result. The sanctimonious utterances that clown has come out with along the way is an absolute embarrassment. No wonder with Yorkston fronting that outfit for so long with Leishman, a well meaning nice but naive guy, as his stooge,there's little sympathy for their plight. They're getting what they deserve with probably worse to come equally deserved.

 

Even so I feel for their fans who in understandable ignorance have had little opportunity to redress the direction their club has been heading over the last ten or so years.They may on occasions have got a bit uppity but I don't recall them reaching the heights, or is that depths, that fans of two or three other discredited clubs managed to aspire to.

Edited by lady-isobel-barnett
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Dunfermline were poor today, and Alloa looked more than capable of holding their own in Div 1. Where do the Pars go from here? A play-off place next season at best?

 

If they can manage to avoid bottom spot, a playoff spot could well be on the cards again. Could Jeffries make it a hat-trick and take them to a 3rd consecutive relegation?

 

Here's hoping.

 

 

Jim Jefferies moaning about how hard done by Dunfie are in respect of the points deduction! But that is what happens when you don't pay the taxman! Simple! And, by the way, Alloa look a good prospect for SFL1 next season.

 

Aww poor wee lambs.

 

 

You're a greeting faced basturd jim jeffries

You're a greeting faced basturd jim jeffries

You're a greeting faced basturd, greeting faced basturd

You're a greeting faced basturd jim jeffries

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Again, people with very short memories in this thread.

 

The straw that broke the camels back with Dunfermline was a tax bill from HMRC. We received a tax bill of similar size in 2009 because we hasn't been paying what was due. The only reason we didn't end up like Dunfermline is because we were able to sell Harkins to Dundee.

 

At that time our club was a disgrace. We were happy to budget for a 6 figure loss every season.

 

And remind me, who were the last team in Scotland to suffer back to back relegations? It happened to the pars because they were docked points. What's our excuse?

 

We had prepared a team with an SPL budget and finished the season in division 2.

 

So lets not forget the goings on at our own club over the last decade before taking the moral high ground with Dunfermline.

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Again, people with very short memories in this thread.

 

The straw that broke the camels back with Dunfermline was a tax bill from HMRC. We received a tax bill of similar size in 2009 because we hasn't been paying what was due. The only reason we didn't end up like Dunfermline is because we were able to sell Harkins to Dundee.

 

At that time our club was a disgrace. We were happy to budget for a 6 figure loss every season.

 

And remind me, who were the last team in Scotland to suffer back to back relegations? It happened to the pars because they were docked points. What's our excuse?

 

We had prepared a team with an SPL budget and finished the season in division 2.

 

So lets not forget the goings on at our own club over the last decade before taking the moral high ground with Dunfermline.

 

Dunfermline were/are £12 million in debt due to paying the likes of Stevie Crawford £4k a week and were chasing the dream for at least the last ten years. We were generally badly run. The team was poor and crowds suffered, not the same as spunking cash in the SPL like it was going out of fashion.

Edited by jagfox
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Again, people with very short memories in this thread.

 

The straw that broke the camels back with Dunfermline was a tax bill from HMRC. We received a tax bill of similar size in 2009 because we hasn't been paying what was due. The only reason we didn't end up like Dunfermline is because we were able to sell Harkins to Dundee.

 

At that time our club was a disgrace. We were happy to budget for a 6 figure loss every season.

 

And remind me, who were the last team in Scotland to suffer back to back relegations? It happened to the pars because they were docked points. What's our excuse?

 

We had prepared a team with an SPL budget and finished the season in division 2.

 

So lets not forget the goings on at our own club over the last decade before taking the moral high ground with Dunfermline.

 

No short memory here.

We got what we deserved, two relegations, financial problems etc, in so much as the club had been run diabolically by the board, we had with musical chairs between the clowns, over a 5 year period that saw the heart and soul ripped out the stadium, club and support. We were inflicted with ineptidude on the park with a massive list of supposed footballers, "guided" by a equally inept and clueless embarrasment of a bunnet carried chariotlike by its slave Dick Campbell, and everything off the park and in the stands and online and in every facet of the club was embarrassing and only the blind could not see how badly we were being run as a club in every conceivable way. And the support, like so many other clubs who are run so badly and reach potential financial armageddon, let it happen.

I don't say that in a bad way, for we collectively were worn down by those dark years and almost resigned to seeing the club either fold or consigned to decades of over-priced and below average football. There was very little will within the support, and it had been fractured in so many ways.

Fast forward to now, and look at the difference.

The support is growing again, it is at its most unified in over a decade, or two or three? (memory fades, but the scars still linger), can anyone honestly say we as a support would let the club sleepwalk into financial aramageddon again, without a fight or real collective effort to challenge the board if we ended up being run so shoddily again?

There is so many things different about the club now, not going to list them all, sure you mr mac and everyone else can think on where i'm going with this though and plenty examples. Yes it has taken time, without a lottery win the clubs ills could not be cured overnight, but its plain for all to see the club is being run infinitely better than 5 years ago, and credit must go to the board for this AND the support who have found a voice (not just in the North stand) and a new will and willingness to work and pull togther to make sure the club is run properly and the matchday experience gets bette and better (and credit in part must go to you mr mac and other shed singers, onethistlers, volunteers, etc) and there is a new pride in the club on every level from top to bottom through the board to the management, to the squad, to the nonplaying staff, volunteers, support. Yes what happens on the pitch has helped, no doubt, but things are improving off it, and long may that continue.

 

As for Dunfermline (and the now defunct RFC who died after 144 years), we (thistle and other clubs supporters) have been pointing out for ages how unsustainable their clubs were and big crashes were coming their way, and in both cases, their supports were like ours, sleepwalking, or fingers in ears, or just devoid of effort to think they could influence things. And the differerence between them and us, is their debts are/were massive, and from massive overspending, lottery sized salaries, and countless other excesses. Yes, we had STJ but it was not the same, on debt level or outcome and losses to others. 2009 was a wakeup call for everyone connected with PTFC. Bad yes, but Nowhere near Dunfermline levels (£13mill in debt plus another £12mill i think in loans?) Or the dead club from Govan (£94mill with another £50mill if BTC FTT appeal is ever concluded). Or Dundee (twice for that matter). Or Livi (twice too). Or the debt levels currently of Killie, Hearts, Aberdeen etc.

 

Point is, even with our shambles of previous boards and apathy amongst support, our debts in main have been from building a couple of stands and (as you correctly point out) budgeting for a loss seasonaly. Nonsense and thankfully such a strategy will never be seen again at Firhill.

Through all these years, other clubs have massively overspent and most have got away with it - cheated in essence, paying for players they could not afford in reality. Not just for a season, But years. Decades.

For these reasons, i have no symapthy with these clubs. Karma is a bitch. And when she bites, she can bite savagely. And thats good. For years, if not decades of massive overspending and cheating, i feel it is only right any such clubs should suffer a few years at least in the wilderness (or lower reaches of SFL to give it its proper name). Yes, some symapthy for the supporters but, at same time, supporters have to realise revelling in success (or even just chasing it) achieved by in essence cheating, comes at a cost.

 

As you admit, in 2009 our club was a disgrace. Now it isn't, and i feverently hope it never will be again.

But the Dunfermlines, hearts, killies, blue arse cheek, dundees, livis, aberdeens and other of their ilk are a disgrace, and they deserve their ills, as harsh as it may be on whatever decent supporters any of these clubs have.

Fair play, or don't play the game.

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Tend to agree.

 

What happens if/when a pyramid system is introduced? When rangers/sevco dropped into the 3rd Div, or more correctly were invited into the SFL at that level, they weren't strictly taking anyone's place. I know you can argue Spartans or Cove Rangers have a case but they weren't in line to play senior football this season regardless of the sevco situation. So if/when there's promotion and relegation to and from the 3rd Div and a club from higher up the pecking order goes bust would there be no promotion that season to the 3rd so as to accommodate that club?

 

As above post suggests the newco route could be an easy way out especially the further down the tables the club is playing. If the Pars get relegated on Sunday then the newco route of starting out in the 3rd Div may only mean them dropping down one division as opposed to sevco going down three tiers Could get real messy. .

 

There's still a chance that the pyramid system could be introduced as early as next season. So if Hearts were to go bust over the summer, their local derby next season could be against Spartans in the new Lowland League.

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Again, people with very short memories in this thread.

 

The straw that broke the camels back with Dunfermline was a tax bill from HMRC. We received a tax bill of similar size in 2009 because we hasn't been paying what was due. The only reason we didn't end up like Dunfermline is because we were able to sell Harkins to Dundee.

 

At that time our club was a disgrace. We were happy to budget for a 6 figure loss every season.

 

And remind me, who were the last team in Scotland to suffer back to back relegations? It happened to the pars because they were docked points. What's our excuse?

 

We had prepared a team with an SPL budget and finished the season in division 2.

 

So lets not forget the goings on at our own club over the last decade before taking the moral high ground with Dunfermline.

 

Agree with above sentiments. I think tho' the sheer scale of Pars debts is quite staggering. Whilst I too feel we've got to be careful to avoid hypocrisy I don't believe we could or should be tarred with the same brush. In my mind it's all a matter of scale.

 

I'm only speaking from an idealistic standpoint and I've absolutely no idea how the football authorities could implement this but I'd like to see clubs punished by relative scale of their crime.

 

Re clubs entering administration.

 

Firstly dock them a nominal points deduction eg 5pts.

 

Further points off for the amount of debt in relation to their average home attendance. As an example in my simplistic way Dundee & Dunfermline have about the same size of crowd. When Dundee went into administration first time round they owed circa £23m roughly twice what Pars are at. So Dundee would get deducted twice as many additional points as Pars.

 

Thirdly when they come out of administration the percentage of the CVA should be taken into account. Why should a club who pay out 4p in the £ be treated the same as a club who paid out 40p? So the less you pay out the more additional points deducted.

 

At present there's a strong likelihood of a club at the foot of its league taking the cheap way out. Go into administration and stuff your creditors. Any points deducted are academic as the club was getting relegated in the first place. To avoid this the additional points should come off at the start of the following season.

 

I think all of the administrations so far have been down to mismanagement on a grand scale but that's not to say everyone in the future will be the same. A club could get unlucky with maybe a costly mid season pitch repair or other unforeseen maintenance problems, Cash flow could force them into administration maybe only for a period of weeks. They could emerge from that paying off bills and honouring contracts etc. In my mind that club should only be punished nominally and not treated as harshly as the serial offenders.

 

Until there's a scale of punishment to match the crime I think we'll be seeing some clubs dealt with harshly where others get off lightly.

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Jim Jeffries has gone down in my estimation after these ridiculous comments.

 

"It's not Alloa that's put us down," said Jefferies, who argues that docking points for going into administration hurts the players and not club owners.

 

"We had 15 points taken away from us. It is just a shocking decision."

 

"When you go down a division, it makes it worse and these are the players who are going to suffer for that.

 

"Some of them might have to go because of the cuts we make. Hopefully not, but there will certainly be less to play with."

 

"I'm a Hearts man and, if Hearts have this, they should take the strongest action they can possibly do, but leave the players alone and don't take the points away from them"

Edited by kni
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I'd like to see how Jefferies would punish clubs who enter administration through mismanagement. He'd be much angrier if a fine were imposed and there needs to be some deterrent for clubs considering using admin to wipe debts.

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