One Word Post - Should Scotland Be An Independent Country? Yes Or No.

[Granville Island]

So currency union now fully denied I await plan B from Alec with baited breath

 

So that the mess in Iraq today may in any way be connected to Britain's illegal invasion of 2003 (100,000 lives later at a conservative estimate) now fully denied by Blair (oh what a fear that we may possibly lose our 'influence' in the world by having our own distinctive voice). I await plan B from the 'sainted' Westminster (that we are governed by the House of Lords alone is a disgrace!) with bated (not baited) breath.

[Jaggernaut]

What is the Westminster government trying to hide?

 

http://www.heraldsco...survey.24549489

Edited June 21, 2014 by Jaggernaut

[jaggybunnet]

So that the mess in Iraq today may in any way be connected to Britain's illegal invasion of 2003 (100,000 lives later at a conservative estimate) now fully denied by Blair (oh what a fear that we may possibly lose our 'influence' in the world by having our own distinctive voice). I await plan B from the 'sainted' Westminster (that we are governed by the House of Lords alone is a disgrace!) with bated (not baited) breath.

 

so you dont want to answer any of the questions on the independence debate.....are you Jaggernaut in disguise or is this just the yes camp way.

 

Jaggernaut. you mean like eck on if he got legal advise on the eu that he spent thousands on to stop us finding out about.

 

but a Scottish parliament wouldn't do that because we are Scottish surely. the Scottish have had plenty of power in Westminster, two of the last three PMs and chancellors have been Scottish, so an other non point by the yes camp.

 

please try for the sake of Scotland to come out with some fact please that would help the undecided instead of the bitter cybernats stuff we continue to see...oh and yes the no camp have a few belters as well but none as bitter and twisted as the "you are all traitors" mob from wings over scotland , here is another fine quote from the rev I A M Jolly Rev Stuart Campbell

‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’ oh and who can forget ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

[The Jukebox Rebel]

so you dont want to answer any of the questions on the independence debate.....are you Jaggernaut in disguise or is this just the yes camp way.

 

Jaggernaut. you mean like eck on if he got legal advise on the eu that he spent thousands on to stop us finding out about.

 

but a Scottish parliament wouldn't do that because we are Scottish surely. the Scottish have had plenty of power in Westminster, two of the last three PMs and chancellors have been Scottish, so an other non point by the yes camp.

 

please try for the sake of Scotland to come out with some fact please that would help the undecided instead of the bitter cybernats stuff we continue to see...oh and yes the no camp have a few belters as well but none as bitter and twisted as the "you are all traitors" mob from wings over scotland , here is another fine quote from the rev I A M Jolly Rev Stuart Campbell

‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’ oh and who can forget ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

Thank you for your input.

[jaggybunnet]

Thank you for your input.

 

don't mention it oh and was any of it wrong?

 

 

still waiting for positive input from Jaggernaut on why we should say yes with some facts to back it up....you want it, you prove it please.

[Jaggernaut]

so you dont want to answer any of the questions on the independence debate.....are you Jaggernaut in disguise or is this just the yes camp way.

 

Jaggernaut. you mean like eck on if he got legal advise on the eu that he spent thousands on to stop us finding out about.

 

but a Scottish parliament wouldn't do that because we are Scottish surely. the Scottish have had plenty of power in Westminster, two of the last three PMs and chancellors have been Scottish, so an other non point by the yes camp.

 

please try for the sake of Scotland to come out with some fact please that would help the undecided instead of the bitter cybernats stuff we continue to see...oh and yes the no camp have a few belters as well but none as bitter and twisted as the "you are all traitors" mob from wings over scotland , here is another fine quote from the rev I A M Jolly Rev Stuart Campbell

‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’ oh and who can forget ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

 

What is the point of selecting a stupid comment by a loony and presenting it as some sort of argument for continued dependence on Westminster handouts? How about letting us know what exactly is meant by "the best of both worlds, " the phrase that Project Fear spokespersons bring out at every possible occasion? Is it the lowest pensions in Europe? The ever-increasing poverty for more and more people while the Sirs, Lords, and Ministers get increasingly richer? Is it the dilapidated rail services in Scotland while England got the entire benefit of the Channel Tunnel though the EU grant was given on the understanding that there would be a direct link to Scotland? It is the spanking new rail development that will serve central England only? It's certainly looks like "best" for one side of the so-called union.

 

Also, suggesting that because individual Scots have managed to get to high positions (by adopting the London parties' stances on all matters political) that Scotland as a nation has power over Westminster is plainly daft. Although I suppose that the fact that Westminster is now keeking its pants at the thought that Scotland might finally escape from their clutches does show some sort of power.

[jaggybunnet]

What is the point of selecting a stupid comment by a loony and presenting it as some sort of argument for continued dependence on Westminster handouts? How about letting us know what exactly is meant by "the best of both worlds, " the phrase that Project Fear spokespersons bring out at every possible occasion? Is it the lowest pensions in Europe? The ever-increasing poverty for more and more people while the Sirs, Lords, and Ministers get increasingly richer? Is it the dilapidated rail services in Scotland while England got the entire benefit of the Channel Tunnel though the EU grant was given on the understanding that there would be a direct link to Scotland? It is the spanking new rail development that will serve central England only? It's certainly looks like "best" for one side of the so-called union.

 

Also, suggesting that because individual Scots have managed to get to high positions (by adopting the London parties' stances on all matters political) that Scotland as a nation has power over Westminster is plainly daft. Although I suppose that the fact that Westminster is now keeking its pants at the thought that Scotland might finally escape from their clutches does show some sort of power.

 

blah blah blah. show us a positive reason that is backed up by facts and not your usual because it will stuff.

[Blackpool Jags]

(Dips toe momentarily in water, immediately prior to getting swiftly out of the debating tent) - Jaggybunnet, just a wee pointer here: you are, of course, fully entitled to your opinions including your opinions of other posters' opinions, but I notice that you constantly attempt to harangue Jaggernaut into producing "facts". Well, I'd like to point out to you that in his most recent post (above) for instance, he cites a number of situations, circumstances and events which could reasonably be described as facts as they are evidence-based: eg, "lowest pensions in Europe"; "the ever increasing poverty for more people . . .". That he couches these facts in the form of [rhetorical] questions does not in any way diminish their status as facts. Therefore, and for the purpose of a more objective and smooth-flowing discussion, I would respectfully request of you that you keep that in mind. No hostility whatsoever intended in this observation of mine.

 

(Gets TF oot the tent).

[Guy Incognito]

Completely agree with this. My preference is for a federal structure for the UK, which actually might have some chance of coming in if we vote 'no' funnily enough. But I stand by my position that it could easily take a generation to achieve the political maturity required under 'independence' to make it work.

 

Again I agree with this. But it's not really what I mean by political maturity ie it's not just the experience of those voted in, but what platforms are adopted, and the ability of democracy to ultimately balance these. On a simplistic level, we need to develop beyond the simple narrative that anything bad that we experience is because of England, and anything good is because of Scotland.

 

We have had a significant impact on UK economic policy, and the role of the Central Bank over the years, especially relatively recently. This will go, and it is this to which I am referring. If we do have a a currency union, then that without fiscal union, and that without political union doesn't at all work for me - I think this has been amply demonstrated over the last few years. Central Bank's powers are limited or extended by political process. We would have no part of that. I understand the difficulties with young, newly independent, currencies, and that they are often pegged for value and borrowing to other ones. But that would at least have been independence rather than 'independence'.

 

In the UK there definitely is an emerging London problem as far as growth and value go (not just housing). This will impact even on an 'independent' Scotland. I've been interested in debates recently about potential solutions to that. We would have no stake in this, but be highly affected by it if we are 'independent'. I do appreciate that there's pros and cons to considering this one, and that it might be better to try and insulate ourselves. But currency union without fiscal/ political union seems one of the worst solutions.

 

I don't think there is much appetite for a federal UK, unfortunately. The North East of England had a referendum on a regional assembly about eight years ago and voted against it. Admittedly, the assembly would have amounted to little more than a talking shop, but since then the mainstream political parties have pushed the idea of a federal UK to the back of the shelf, as if they have taken the North East's referendum result as a rejection of federalism. A No vote from Scotland in September would surely do little else than strengthen that assumption.

 

I agree that we need to get away from the 'England = bad' mentality and one of the many advantages that I believe independence would bring is that it will force us to, if you like, grow up. The anti-English rhetoric has even dissipated since devolution (Holyrood having provided us with a new set of politicians to pillory). I would expect it to have a similar effect on the English too, as they will finally be rid of the 'sponging subsidy junkies'. Then again, they might just turn on the Welsh instead.

 

I wouldn't expect things to be transformed overnight or even in the first few years after independence. I think you could be right, it might even take a generation before political maturity is reached. But independence is for life, not just for Christmas. We have future generations as well as our own to consider here too.

 

Scotland has had an impact on UK economic policy in that it has contributed greatly over the years towards the UK's output (in spite of what some folk would have us believe). Currently Scotland is England's second largest trading partner, thus rejecting a currency union with Scotland means that Westminster would be burdening its businesses with unnecessary transaction costs. No sensible government would pursue such a policy, certainly not out of pure spite.

 

Like you say, there are pros and cons with the currency issue. I have said it already on this thread but I would prefer us to have our own currency at some point because I think it would give the government more fiscal flexibility. But as a medium term solution it is feasible.

[Guy Incognito]

 

 

so you dont want to answer any of the questions on the independence debate.....are you Jaggernaut in disguise or is this just the yes camp way.

 

Jaggernaut. you mean like eck on if he got legal advise on the eu that he spent thousands on to stop us finding out about.

 

but a Scottish parliament wouldn't do that because we are Scottish surely. the Scottish have had plenty of power in Westminster, two of the last three PMs and chancellors have been Scottish, so an other non point by the yes camp.

 

please try for the sake of Scotland to come out with some fact please that would help the undecided instead of the bitter cybernats stuff we continue to see...oh and yes the no camp have a few belters as well but none as bitter and twisted as the "you are all traitors" mob from wings over scotland , here is another fine quote from the rev I A M Jolly Rev Stuart Campbell

‘If Scotland is too spineless to walk away from this in 2014, having waited for over 300 years for one chance, then f*** Scotland too.’ oh and who can forget ‘I hope you get cancer and that your cancer gets AIDS and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.’

 

I am glad that this thread has largely avoided the whole 'he called me a name on the internet' pish that the debate has found itself distracted by for the past couple of weeks (thanks to the mainstream media for that) and other forums have become fixated by, so I would hate us to get embroiled in that kind of nonsense here.

 

But regarding the above quote, the man himself - who may or may not be a bit of dick in real life, not that that should render his opinions worthless - explains himself here:

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/hello-daily-mail-readers/#more-57256

 

[Guy Incognito]

blah blah blah. show us a positive reason that is backed up by facts and not your usual because it will stuff.

 

I think Big Dan's post captures a lot of the key facts quite nicely.

 

• 
  Scotland’s bank balance is healthier than the UK’s. Over the past five years, Scotland has been better off than the UK as a whole to the tune of £1,600 per person.
  

• 
  We’ve generated more tax per head than the rest of the UK in each of the last 33 years.
  

• 
  Scotland has a lower fiscal deficit than the UK – averaging 7.2% of GDP compared to 8.4% for the UK as a whole over the past five years.
  

• 
  In terms of national wealth per head, Scotland is the 14th wealthiest nation in the OECD club of developed nations – that’s ahead of the UK at just 18th place.
  

• 
  Scotland is the top location in the UK for foreign direct investment outside London and the South-East of England – a great expression of confidence in Scotland’s economic future.
  

• 
  Analysis from the Financial Times shows Scotland’s exports total £73.6bn a year – and that’s even without Scotland’s North Sea oil production.
  

• 
  Scotland’s food and drink industry turns over more than £13 bn every year, and last year the equivalent of 40 bottles of Scotch whisky were sold overseas every second.
  

• 
  Our life sciences sector is one of the fastest growing in Europe – the value it adds to Scotland’s economy stood at £960million in 2011, up 9% on 2010.
  

• 
  Scotland’s creative industries have a combined turnover of £5bn – with growing strengths across our heritage, artistic and cultural industries.
  

• 
  Manufacturers in Scotland export £15.4bn worth of goods abroad annually.
  

• 
  Scotland’s tourism sector employs almost 200,000 people and contributes £3.1bn to the economy annually.
  

• 
  Scotland has one of the world’s strongest higher education sectors, with the most top universities relative to our size – producing talented graduates to contribute to our economy.
  

• 
  Scotland has 60% of the EU’s oil reserves, with the North Sea generating around £34.3bn in the next five years.
  

• 
  There remains up to £1.5 trillion wholesale value of oil and gas in the North Sea, with production forecast to continue to the 2050s and beyond.
  

• 
  We’ve got 25% of Europe’s offshore wind and tidal energy potential, putting Scotland at the forefront of the coming renewables boom.
  

• And we have 10% of Europe’s wave energy potential – with projects in Scotland leading the way in this cutting edge sector. It is a definite Yes from me.
  

[jaggybunnet]

(Dips toe momentarily in water, immediately prior to getting swiftly out of the debating tent) - Jaggybunnet, just a wee pointer here: you are, of course, fully entitled to your opinions including your opinions of other posters' opinions, but I notice that you constantly attempt to harangue Jaggernaut into producing "facts". Well, I'd like to point out to you that in his most recent post (above) for instance, he cites a number of situations, circumstances and events which could reasonably be described as facts as they are evidence-based: eg, "lowest pensions in Europe"; "the ever increasing poverty for more people . . .". That he couches these facts in the form of [rhetorical] questions does not in any way diminish their status as facts. Therefore, and for the purpose of a more objective and smooth-flowing discussion, I would respectfully request of you that you keep that in mind. No hostility whatsoever intended in this observation of mine.

 

(Gets TF oot the tent).

 

no i want the yes camp which he is part of to produce facts, the fact he cant on there behalf speaks volumes to me.

[jaggybunnet]

(Dips toe momentarily in water, immediately prior to getting swiftly out of the debating tent) - Jaggybunnet, just a wee pointer here: you are, of course, fully entitled to your opinions including your opinions of other posters' opinions, but I notice that you constantly attempt to harangue Jaggernaut into producing "facts". Well, I'd like to point out to you that in his most recent post (above) for instance, he cites a number of situations, circumstances and events which could reasonably be described as facts as they are evidence-based: eg, "lowest pensions in Europe"; "the ever increasing poverty for more people . . .". That he couches these facts in the form of [rhetorical] questions does not in any way diminish their status as facts. Therefore, and for the purpose of a more objective and smooth-flowing discussion, I would respectfully request of you that you keep that in mind. No hostility whatsoever intended in this observation of mine.

 

(Gets TF oot the tent).

 

my point is that none of those show that Scotland would be better as an independent nation , just that things are not going great at the moment, and to cherry pick one of them

Is it the dilapidated rail services in Scotland while England got the entire benefit of the Channel Tunnel though the EU grant was give

 

is that why the SG are spending 350 mil on 30 + miles of track in the central belt whilst doing nothing about upgrading the A9....oh sorry they are putting average speed cameras in.

 

Yes BJ i should have made it clearer so i will apologies for that.

[Mr Scruff]

I don't think there is much appetite for a federal UK, unfortunately. The North East of England had a referendum on a regional assembly about eight years ago and voted against it. Admittedly, the assembly would have amounted to little more than a talking shop, but since then the mainstream political parties have pushed the idea of a federal UK to the back of the shelf, as if they have taken the North East's referendum result as a rejection of federalism. A No vote from Scotland in September would surely do little else than strengthen that assumption. I agree that we need to get away from the 'England = bad' mentality and one of the many advantages that I believe independence would bring is that it will force us to, if you like, grow up. The anti-English rhetoric has even dissipated since devolution (Holyrood having provided us with a new set of politicians to pillory). I would expect it to have a similar effect on the English too, as they will finally be rid of the 'sponging subsidy junkies'. Then again, they might just turn on the Welsh instead. I wouldn't expect things to be transformed overnight or even in the first few years after independence. I think you could be right, it might even take a generation before political maturity is reached. But independence is for life, not just for Christmas. We have future generations as well as our own to consider here too. Scotland has had an impact on UK economic policy in that it has contributed greatly over the years towards the UK's output (in spite of what some folk would have us believe). Currently Scotland is England's second largest trading partner, thus rejecting a currency union with Scotland means that Westminster would be burdening its businesses with unnecessary transaction costs. No sensible government would pursue such a policy, certainly not out of pure spite. Like you say, there are pros and cons with the currency issue. I have said it already on this thread but I would prefer us to have our own currency at some point because I think it would give the government more fiscal flexibility. But as a medium term solution it is feasible.

I have to say that I agree with pretty much everything you say here.

 

I do believe that either a yes or a no vote (considering the power transfer that happens in either case), combined with the 'London Effect' has a good chance of pushing the UK towards a Federal structure. But that's obviously just a guess.

 

Actually this whole thing is really just a leap of faith anyway. I was expecting more detail to be given in the lead up to the vote, but this hasn't happened. My instincts are that unions, fairly established and represented, provide more security, stability and opportunity. But there is no doubt that this is also balanced by the opportunity that comes from being smaller, leaner and more focused. I would feel more inclined to vote for that if it was braver and had a more compelling vision. And had been more honest and realistic

[jaggybunnet]

• 
  Scotland’s bank balance is healthier than the UK’s. Over the past five years, Scotland has been better off than the UK as a whole to the tune of £1,600 per person.
  

not according to SGs own Gers numbers

total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at £53.1 billion. Scottish Government and all other parts of the public sector spending was £65.2 billion.

• 
  We’ve generated more tax per head than the rest of the UK in each of the last 33 years.
  

not according to SGs own Gers numbers

total Scottish public sector revenue was estimated at £53.1 billion. Scottish Government and all other parts of the public sector spending was £65.2 billion.

• 
  Scotland has a lower fiscal deficit than the UK – averaging 7.2% of GDP compared to 8.4% for the UK as a whole over the past five years.
  

Scotland would start with a massive debt and would struggle to get good borrowing rate due to not having any real plan apart from currency union

• 
  In terms of national wealth per head, Scotland is the 14th wealthiest nation in the OECD club of developed nations – that’s ahead of the UK at just 18th place.
  

Yes as part of the Union, as an independent nation starting with massive debts i would like to see the numbers

• 
  Scotland is the top location in the UK for foreign direct investment outside London and the South-East of England – a great expression of confidence in Scotland’s economic future.
  

again yes as part of the union and pound Stirling, possibly not when you have the added costs of an independent currency or the euro.

 

• 
  Analysis from the Financial Times shows Scotland’s exports total £73.6bn a year – and that’s even without Scotland’s North Sea oil production.
  

would they all be here in an independent Scotland

• 
  Scotland’s food and drink industry turns over more than £13 bn every year, and last year the equivalent of 40 bottles of Scotch whisky were sold overseas every second.
  

yes it is doing well, again whilst being part of the union, something like 40% are owned by foreign companies with Diageo owns almost a third of Scotland's distilleries

http://www.heraldsco...whisky-1.826391

• 
  Our life sciences sector is one of the fastest growing in Europe – the value it adds to Scotland’s economy stood at £960million in 2011, up 9% on 2010.
  

as part of the Union

• 
  Scotland’s creative industries have a combined turnover of £5bn – with growing strengths across our heritage, artistic and cultural industries.
  

as part of the Union

• 
  Manufacturers in Scotland export £15.4bn worth of goods abroad annually.
  

as part of the Union

• 
  Scotland’s tourism sector employs almost 200,000 people and contributes £3.1bn to the economy annually.
  

good

• 
  Scotland has one of the world’s strongest higher education sectors, with the most top universities relative to our size – producing talented graduates to contribute to our economy.
  

is the same education sector that has lost 4000 school jobs

http://www.dailyreco...rs-lost-3729523

• 
  Scotland has 60% of the EU’s oil reserves, with the North Sea generating around £34.3bn in the next five years.
  

which could go up or down massively and is only a assessment

• 
  There remains up to £1.5 trillion wholesale value of oil and gas in the North Sea, with production forecast to continue to the 2050s and beyond.
  

which could go up or down massively and is only a assessment

• 
  We’ve got 25% of Europe’s offshore wind and tidal energy potential, putting Scotland at the forefront of the coming renewables boom.
  

which rely on massive subsidies to keep them going from the eu which we dont even know if we will be in

• And we have 10% of Europe’s wave energy potential – with projects in Scotland leading the way in this cutting edge sector.
  
• 
  
• as above
  
• 
  
• It is a definite Yes from me.
  

 

I get fed up with the mantra that if its good Scotland must have done it all by its self but that anything bad must be Westminster's fault and smacks of sour grapes

Edited June 21, 2014 by jaggybunnet

[Guy Incognito]

 

 

I get fed up with the mantra that if its good Scotland must have done it all by its self but that anything bad must be Westminster's fault and smacks of sour grapes

 

You seem to be arguing that Scotland has only achieved those good things just because we are part of the union, which is just the reverse of the 'mantra' that you are rubbishing.

 

Why would people across the world suddenly stop buying Scotch whisky, or coming here to study, or holidaying here, or cease buying goods manufactured in Scotland just because the powerbase controlling Scotland has switched from London to Edinburgh?

[jaggybunnet]

You seem to be arguing that Scotland has only achieved those good things just because we are part of the union, which is just the reverse of the 'mantra' that you are rubbishing.

 

its a proven fact that its the case, so now show me how it would be better under independence with all the problems that brings with less money and unknowns due to not knowing what currency we would use and if we would be in the eu

 

Why would people across the world suddenly stop buying Scotch whisky, or coming here to study, or holidaying here, or cease buying goods manufactured in Scotland just because the powerbase controlling Scotland has switched from London to Edinburgh?

 

who said they would stop buying it or would not holiday here? If companies think they will not make the same profits they will either cut there workforce to cover this or even close/sell off if it is not worth the money to continue. as for "buying goods manufactured in Scotland" if they become more expensive then yes they will look elsewhere. at least eck has talked about reducing business tax but as the money people haven't seen any real numbers they cant tell if it is affordable.

[Blackpool Jags]

Canadian gentleman: "Good afternoon, I'd like a bottle of Famous Grouse, please."

 

Storekeeper: "No problem, sir. That'll be $22.50 please."

 

Canadian gentleman: "Thank you, it's my favourite tipple you know. There's no better nightcap for me and my wife."

 

Storekeeper: "I know what you mean, sir, it's been our best seller for over 40 years. By the way, did you know the Scotch Whisky industry is now controlled by Scottish-based businesses and not by foreign companies?"

 

Canadian gentleman: "WHAT? How dare you try and sell me this fckn shit?!?! I only buy produce controlled and marketed by NON-Scottish companies. Shove it up your goddamned ass you mother fecker!"

[jaggybunnet]

Canadian gentleman: "Good afternoon, I'd like a bottle of Famous Grouse, please."

 

Storekeeper: "No problem, sir. That'll be $22.50 please."

 

Canadian gentleman: "Thank you, it's my favourite tipple you know. There's no better nightcap for me and my wife."

 

Storekeeper: "I know what you mean, sir, it's been our best seller for over 40 years. By the way, did you know the Scotch Whisky industry is now controlled by Scottish-based businesses and not by foreign companies?"

 

Canadian gentleman: "WHAT? How dare you try and sell me this fckn shit?!?! I only buy produce controlled and marketed by NON-Scottish companies. Shove it up your goddamned ass you mother fecker!"

 

oh dear that wasn't my point and you know it but if it makes you feel better then crack on.

[Jaggernaut]

oh dear that wasn't my point and you know it but if it makes you feel better then crack on.

 

Jaggybunnet, You happily used the Rev. Stuart Campbell's "quote" above to attack the Scottish independence movement. Guy Incognito provided this link that shows the "quote" to be a combination of fabrication and selective editing. Do you get most of your information from the Daily Mail?

 

What's your view?

 

http://wingsoverscot...ers/#more-57256

[Jaggernaut]

my point is that none of those show that Scotland would be better as an independent nation , just that things are not going great at the moment, and to cherry pick one of them

 

 

is that why the SG are spending 350 mil on 30 + miles of track in the central belt whilst doing nothing about upgrading the A9....oh sorry they are putting average speed cameras in.

 

Yes BJ i should have made it clearer so i will apologies for that.

 

 

:no: http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/a9dualling

[jaggybunnet]

Jaggybunnet, You happily used the Rev. Stuart Campbell's "quote" above to attack the Scottish independence movement. Guy Incognito provided this link that shows the "quote" to be a combination of fabrication and selective editing. Do you get most of your information from the Daily Mail?

 

What's your view?

 

http://wingsoverscot...ers/#more-57256

 

did he say it, yes. wos a biased propaganda outlet for bitter and twisted Scottish people with a chip on there shoulder.

 

only my view of course but sums it up perfectly.

[jaggybunnet]

:no: http://www.transport...v.uk/a9dualling

 

2025 at earliest woopie

[Jaggernaut]

2025 at earliest woopie

 

And for

2025 at earliest woopie

 

As opposed to 2050 for HS, which is estimated to cost 43 Billion in the first instance, and will serve only central England. Indeed, woopie.

 

You're not covering yourself in glory in your twisted and bitter attempts to defend bitter together.

[Guy Incognito]

its a proven fact that its the case, so now show me how it would be better under independence with all the problems that brings with less money and unknowns due to not knowing what currency we would use and if we would be in the eu

 

who said they would stop buying it or would not holiday here? If companies think they will not make the same profits they will either cut there workforce to cover this or even close/sell off if it is not worth the money to continue. as for "buying goods manufactured in Scotland" if they become more expensive then yes they will look elsewhere. at least eck has talked about reducing business tax but as the money people haven't seen any real numbers they cant tell if it is affordable.

 

Not having the gift of second sight or access to a time machine I am afraid I can't show you how things would be better under independence. All I can do is explain why I think things might be.

 

By saying 'it is a fact' that everything good about Scotland has come about because we are in the UK you are implying that those things would cease if we were to leave, without actually explaining why.