The Thistle Archive
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Season 1908-09 is now live @ TTA, all 40 match hubs covered. Traumatic, nomadic and statistically our worst season ever with 102 League goals conceded. Dare you even look?
http://www.thethistlearchive.net/1908-09
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Forever and ever, we'll follow the Jags, the Partick Thistle, the Harry Wraggs,
For we have a promise, that we shall fulfill - to bring the Scottish Cup back up to Maryhill!Now we can't be quite sure when our fathers or grandfathers first made that promise, but what we do know is that still we ache for the second coming of that beautiful old trophy, 100 years on from our sole success.
Unravelling the legendary historic journey, we'll uncover the background stories, get to know the players and discover which national records we broke along the way.
This is the story of how the Cup was won, a herculean struggle, the likes of which had never been seen before in the National Cup - and has never been seen since.
Hope you can join us this coming Wednesday for part one...
(thanks to PTFCShirts for the colourization)
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2 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:
I've just sent you a reply e.mail, using the Archive reply e.mail system. You were looking for info on the death on George Allan (ii), a serving soldier during WWI, and a Thistle footballer. I've quoted details from "scotlandatwar.co.uk", which in turn quoted from a Dundee newspaper article on the inquest into George's death. If the e.mail gets lost in transit, (a Scottish football failing) or you need any further info, please let me know.
The same article on Partick Thistle players who fell during the war, also includes information you need on Tom Callaghan, initially enlisted in the Somerset Light Infantry, but subsequently transferred to the London Regiment. It only states that Tom was killed in action on 20 February 1917 at Ypres.
Ditto George Elmore, killed on the first day of the Somme offensive. Willie John Gray, born Inverness around 1882, died the Somme 18 November 1916. (Seaforth Highlanders.)
Thanks for doing this, although the E-mail hasn't came through which is a bit worrying. Looked out the George Allan story, what a tragic accident.
http://www.scotlandswar.co.uk/pdf_Season_1915-1916_(Fell).pdf
Checked the players you mention and we've got them all covered with as many of the required basics as we can in terms of date/place of birth and date/place of death. No precedent for going into more detailed stories in the head section, although I'm open to the idea of extended bios, so will keep a side note of the above story as a future possibility.
1 hour ago, a f kincaid said:It's worth pointing out that conceding home advantage to Aberdeen did, at least, have some logic behind it. It was to avoid a clash with Scotland v England at Hampden. It was 1-1 and the crowd was given as 130,000.
(Disclaimer: Tried to get my own personal account but WAT's sign up system seems goosed, so, just to point out this is William speaking, and my opinion may not be wholly representative of TTA!)
Aye, worth mentioning, though it'd still be Pts over ££s every-time for me. The 1908 incident pales in comparison to the stink of the 1922 Semi Final, the great rematch of Thistle (holders) v Rangers (pretenders). With behind the scenes handshakes, our directors went out of their way to negotiate to play at Ibrox, eternally unforgivable.
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A new category, Discipline →, has been added to our lists section, with first uploads being our crime count tables from 1997-98 to 2020-21. These tables aren't as definitive as we'd like them to be; press reports can be unreliable at times for yellows and it's likely unreported bookings will come to light somewhere sometime. Also, we're still searching for 60+ ref I.D.s → from the last 24 years if anyone can help?
Did you know? Jags haven't won the crime count battle since 2012-13, but are on course to do so this season, despite being 2-0 down on reds.
For anyone interested in our site developments, it'll be worth your while keeping an eye on our home page in the coming weeks, as we've begun the process of uploading more match data and related season tallies, with several hundred new pages set to go live soon, taking us into the mid-1920s, in good time to celebrate the heroes of '21. Season 1907-08 → is now live and, following our new template, the related Squad Stats page for 1907-08 → is also up in its own right.
Did you know? On 4th April 1908, for the first time in the club's history, Thistle's designated home fixture was not played on their own ground. Almost unbelievably, the directors gave up home advantage in the hope of getting a bigger gate. The takings were a mere £60 and the team were thrashed 6-0 at Pittodrie. A disgrace. Later in the month, before just 500 on a wet Thursday night, Thistle played their last game at Meadowside, their fifth home. A small group of supporters sung a lament, “will ye no come back again”, as the Union Jack was lowered. Partick was considered a hotbed of orangeism. We had to get out of that place!
You can explore a wee bit of Meadowside at the Partick Thistle History Archive →
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Yes, you're on the right tracks there Jagger, although we must be a bit wary if just scraping the freebie surface like that, and the credits are expensive. Getting middle names is good for positive I.D. With this in mind, will definitely upgrade our Alfred J. Stamp to Alfred John Stamp, born in Girvan. Should be able to knock off quite a few uniques. Good chance Kellachan was born in Blantyre as he started out with Blantyre Celtic. Taking side notes...
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Several weeks back, we introduced a new mobile-friendly 4 column design to highlight appearances, scorers and assists for this season. We've now rolled out the concept to cover all 38 seasons which are currently archived. Since we began keeping records for these things several years ago, only one player has ever had an assists total which matches the top scorer for any given season. Care to guess who? See Squad Stats 2013-14 →
With mobile-friendly users in mind, we've also added a more basic version of the season pages, and these basic versions now serve as the primary menu to access our match hubs e.g. 2014-15 →
Our wider data tables remain in place for both squad stats and match hub menus, offering more detailed info for desktop and larger tablet users.
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11 hours ago, Jaggernaut said:
Several (most!) of the players listed starting from the 60s up to now are still alive; indeed some of the older ones show up at Firhill on occasion. Is there no way of contacting them for the missing information?
Indeed, high hopes that much of these lists are do-able, all contributors and helpers most welcome
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HELP!
It's been pretty exciting to find first-time photos of several old Jagsmen lately, including Thomas Dunsmore (1914), Alex Davidson (1912), John Stevenson (1912), Hugh Quigley (1912) and James Niven (1910s). Well over 1,000 done, several hundred still to go.
Could you help with any of our missing player images?
We never really stop adding bits n bobs, but don't always mention it, perhaps we should and stir the interest a bit more. Recently, dates of birth and previously unknown club connections were added for Rajiv Pathak and Adam McCall. Again, we now have well over 1,000 dates/places of birth in our database, but still we search for several hundred more, including ELEVEN of the current squad.
Do you know where or when was he born?
Any help appreciated and gets you a mention in our credits section!
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51 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:
Love it! I just read No. 12, and will read one each day.
10 minutes ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:Likewise. Looking forward to this
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Hooray! Good to know you'll be reading.
Re 'Doc', that's a surprising stat indeed. McCall reckons he should be on 5 already this season, I like his psychology. Took it like a seasoned striker, sure it won't be his last.
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Some of the long serving forumites may remember a feature from several years back, celebrating 12 one-goal-wonders in a Christmas countdown. For anyone who might have missed it, The Archive is giving that feature a permanent home, introduced by a repeat countdown over the next 12 days, starting today. Some wonderful stories in there, worth a read. Hope some of you will enjoy following along. Taps aff, let's go…
Ye'll No' Believe Who Scored It!
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On 11/28/2020 at 2:08 PM, East Kent Jag II said:
Always shown on the "Latest Jags action " on the home page of The Thistle Archive ".
Thanks for helping to spread the word!
We could do it ourselves, but decided to feed it in from an external source as we've so much else going on, and also they're more likely to care about that rescheduled Tuesday fixture from yer Forfar's and yer Clyde's than we are. Seems to take them about 90 minutes to update the table post-match, but last night was more like 30 minutes. Been reliable so far, pleased with them.
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14 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:
If Keiran Wright has a clean sheet next week against Peterhead, he equals that record for league games.
He certainly does EKJ. What's more, Kenny Campbell / Rab Bernard shared the 1921 run so Kieran actually equalled a goalie club-record yesterday, and now has a chance to make a wonderful bit of history for himself next week:
- In competitive action, Kieran Wright now sits alongside Kenny Campbell (1921) and Scott Fox (2013) with the all-time greatest run of 5 consecutive clean-sheets. No Thistle 'keeper has ever done the six-in-a-row…
It's a bumper Stats Watch this week!
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Everyone at The Thistle Archive is pleased to support Phil's excellent RedYellow.org fan merchandise initiative. With all profits donated to PTFC, it's a win-win with Christmas coming up and a great product range on offer. The footer of every page at The Thistle Archive now has a handy link through to the shop. 'mon the Jags!
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10 hours ago, jaggy said:
I was being dumb, I just looked through the list without looking at the numbers and forgot about joint scorers
Sorry Jaggy, we were too lazy to put an = sign in the graphics!
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12 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:
A really well put together list.
Not many hattricks amongst the more recent players there. I imagine that can be put down largely to multiple subs and formations where you play a lone striker.
I reckon Liam Buchanan would've made the top 50 had he not been out with that bad injury.
Thank you!
In all games it's 40 hat-tricks in the 1940s, 3 in the 2010s!
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59 minutes ago, partickthedog said:
7 is the perfect number. So 7 times 7 equals 49 makes it even more perfect.
Cue 49 minutes video
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7 minutes ago, partickthedog said:
Would I be right in saying that 5 substitutions is the most Thistle will ever have made in one League match?
^ Hasn't read this week's Stats Watch entry yet!
With the start of the new League season, we've re-shaped our home page to include a permanently embedded League table, which also feeds in to our 2020/21 overview page .
While we're at it, we've complemented our 2020-21 Squad Stats table by introducing a 4 column at-a-glance summary, focused on 'In The Jersey', 'Appearances', 'Goals' and 'Assists'. These are double-fed into the site; under 'Latest Jags Action' on the aforementioned home page (click on 'Squad Stats 2020-21' to openly view) as well as being included in the aforementioned 2020/21 overview page. We'll be updating the data after each and every match, so it'll be worth your while to check back regularly, if you're interested in this sort of stuff.
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20 hours ago, East Kent Jag II said:
Willie Paul also turns up in one of the matches played on 6 October in today's archive home page - 3rd L.R.V. 2 Thistle 2 on 6 October 1888. Willie scored one of the goals, but the match was later abandoned with !feuds" and a pitch invasion.
Willie was also special as he was an amateur for his whole career. Quite incredibly, he used to play for Queens Park or other amateur sides, if the Jags were not playing! A true Corinthian.
So true EKJ. Thought you might quite like this extract from "Willie Paul - The First Partick Thistle Giant"...
Season 1890-91
Willie leaves the Thistle!
In the pre-season, the ever-active Willie was the star attraction at the Falkirk Iron Works Band Concert and Promenade, guesting for Glasgow Crusaders in the 4-a-sides event. On the 9th August, he was in place as normal for a 6-1 win over Newmilns at West End Park. The first sign of some trouble came the following week. Reporting on the somewhat bizarre 9-6 win over Port Glasgow, the Greenock Telegraph said that Kerr had been more than an able deputy for the missing Paul “being responsible for scoring not a few of the many points scored by his club”. Why was he missing we wonder? According to the Official History book he was listed at inside right the following week, as Thistle defeated Methlan Park by 4 goals to 2 at Inchview.
However, the mysterious comment from the Greenock Telegraph came back to haunt us just days later. The Scottish Referee (25/8/1890) reported the devastating news that “Paul has severed his connection with Partick Thistle and will now be seen out Hampden way where he will do duty for the Queen's”. Sure enough, on Wednesday, 27th August, previewing that night's friendly between Hibs and Queen's Park, the Edinburgh Evening News reported that changes in the Queens team included Paul at No 9 who was “late of Partick Thistle”. With a “well-directed shot” Willie had them in the lead after 20 minutes. The Scotsman’s report delivered the hammer-blows that Thistle fans will have been dreading: “Two other goals fell to the old Partick Thistle player, who was displaying rare judgement and shooting powers.” By half-time Willie Paul had scored a hat-trick for his new club, putting them into a 3-0 lead. They went on to win 9-0 in this well-advertised exhibition match which drew almost 10,000 fans in the capital. And so began a surreal run of 7 games from August to October featuring Willie Paul as a confirmed member of Scotland's premier football team of the day. This was how the Spiders shaped up with Willie Paul at centre:
27/08/1890 Hibernians 0-9 Queen's Park (Friendly) (at least) 3 goals for Willie
06/09/1890 Glasgow Thistle 3-5 Queen's Park (Scottish Cup 1st Round)
13/09/1890 St Bernard's 2-2 Queen's Park (Friendly) 2 goals for Willie
20/09/1890 Queen's Park 13-1 Maryhill (Glasgow Cup 1st Round)
27/09/1890 Queen's Park 5-1 Northern (Scottish Cup 2nd Round)
11/10/1890 Queen's Park 2-4 Third Lanark (Glasgow Cup 2nd Round)
18/10/1890 Queen's Park 6-0 Uddingston (Scottish Cup 3rd Round) 1 goal for WillieWith no found explanations or editorial, we can only speculate as to what had brought about this change of heart for Willie who, up until now, had almost been resolute in his commitment to the Partick Thistle, resisting England’s finest, never mind the local rivals. I fancy that perhaps he hankered after Cup Winners medals in the Glasgow Cup and the Scottish Cup, although the possibility exists there was some sort of disenchantment with the Thistle committee. Perhaps it was a combination of both? Several players had been lost in the pre-season, including the 3 men who sat atop the scoring charts with Willie in the previous season; John Drummond (to Preston North End), David Hislop (to Rangers) and Andrew Johnston (to Third Lanark).
Combine this turmoil with the fact that we were playing in the shadow of the great new Scottish League and it was perhaps understandable that 1890-91 was all rather low key. There was to be no joy in any of the 4 Cup campaigns, with defeats to Wishaw Thistle (Scottish), Celtic (Glasgow), Dumbarton (Greenock Charity) and Queen’s Park (Glasgow Charity).
Willie comes home – League Champions-elect defeated
Returning as suddenly as he had abruptly departed, Willie Paul was back at Inchview without explanation by late-October. Of QP's friendly with Leith Athletic on 25th October the Scotsman simply said: “Queen's Park were without Paul, Arnott and Sellar”. The reason for that was simple – Willie was in back action for Thistle in a 3-2 win at Ibrox!
Willie featured in the season’s two bright spot games against Rangers, as we more than held our own against the side who would be the first (joint) League champions. In October, our former striker David Hislop scored against us at Ibrox – but his last-minute effort was merely a consolation as Thistle recorded an oh-so-sweet victory by 3 goals to 2.
In the return fixture at Inchview in December, Willie netted a second half equaliser “amidst great cheers”, the 1-1 draw ensuring that Thistle held the upper hand over the champions-elect for yet another season.
On Valentine’s Day in February, there was some further turbulence for the Willie Paul and Partick Thistle love affair, when our man was again coaxed into action for the Queen’s Park, featuring in the annual high-profile challenge match with their English counterparts, the Corinthians, played in front of 6,000 fans at Kennington Oval. Once again putting his name in the papers all over Britain, Willie scored the winner as the Scots emerged victorious in the English capital. Willie again featured as a Spider the following week in a 2-0 win over Northern at Hampden Park. The faithful needn’t have worried though; these turned out to be regular “guest appearance” affairs. This was business-as-usual, and Willie was soon back in action for the Thistle.
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9 hours ago, partickthedog said:
It is amazing how contemporary some of the historical references are. Just had a quick dip in and found our head to head record in 1902 against "Normal Athletic".
They could be re-launched to day as "The New Normal".
Aye, they were an interesting one. East Kent Jag talks about tangents... this lot were a team of teachers from the quaintly named Normal School in Cowcaddens. Played their home games at Glasgow Green. A dubious inclusion for the Glasgow Cup, although they kept it fairly tight at Meadowside on both occasions, to be fair.
https://www.theglasgowstory.com/image/?inum=TGSA02525
Fun fact: The man, the legend, Willie Paul scored his last ever goal for Thistle against Normal Athletic in 1900.
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Since last time...
More good reason to bookmark our ever-changing home page - we've added an Archive News section, which will give you a same-day notice if we add a new page or make any noteworthy updates (quite apart from the in-numerable trivial updates which go on all the time).
The trend seems to be for our match hubs to be uploaded the day after the match; keep an eye out for our unique reports and stats. The BSC game marked the end of the longest-ever close season, the game at Tynecastle seen us field an all-Scottish starting eleven for the first time in over 8 years and unwanted history was made when we failed to beat Ayr at home for a sixth consecutive game. By the end of Friday's game with Hearts we had witnessed 50 substitutions and introduced 13 new Jags to the Archive. It's been a bit lively! Still struggling on naming some of the match officials if anyone has the info, please do share.
All 5 of our tables from the Summer Cup (2), July Cup, Spring Cup and Intertoto Cup were added to the site today. The full reference-quality suite of 186 major and minor League and Cup tables* is now at your fingertips, anytime you need them.
Onto Paisley... can we maintain our astonishing record of being unbeaten in all competitive season openers in the 21st century?
* Until such times as we discover that the Gathering of the Clans Tournament was a round-robin in which case we'll need to dispatch a special agent to Canada to investigate further!
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On 9/28/2020 at 3:39 PM, East Kent Jag II said:
Had a look at the Archive today. One of the games listed is from 28 Sep 1889. A friendly against Albion Rovers. It starts "Because both clubs were "overthrown" in the Scottish Cup....."
I took it that overthrown meant beaten. So I went to the "Matches" section, and looked up the fixtures for September 1889. Yes there it was. On 7 Sept 1889 3rd L.R.V. 3 Thistle 2 at Cathkin Park. In the match info, wonderful photos of most of the players.
I took it that "3rd L.R.V." was what I know to be Third Lanark. So a Google search confirmed that "Third Lanark A.C." was an offshoot of the "3rd Lanarkshire Rifle Volunteers", and 3rd L.R.V. was a founder member club of the SFA.
I didn't know the origin of Third Lanark, and its a shame that a club with such an illustrious origin and history had to fold. I think there is still a Third Lanark club in amateur football.
A lovely journey in the "Thistle Archive" all because of the term "overthrown". Its not that I don't have other things to do, but I'm glad that I made this journey into history.
Will like this post later when the allowances are replenished!
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On 9/24/2020 at 8:15 PM, partickthedog said:
I love all the painstaking detail. Even among the St Johnstone line up we had Paul Paton flagged as ex-Jag and Steven Anderson flagged as future-Jag. Hats off to all involved.
Thanks for noticing ptd, warms the cockles. We've got every player, every game covered in that regard, all the way from 1876, as far as it's possible to know. Wait 'til you see "current Jag" in the opposition line-up, that'll really blow your mind!
Saved the recent update for you before it gets chucked in the digital trash bin. It's a scary looking timespan for the silver-haired one...
Blair Lyons:
07.09.2019 Montrose [a] W2-0 (Challenge Cup 3rd Round)Ciaran McKenna:
12.01.2019 Falkirk [h] D1-1 (SPFL Championship - game 21)
16.03.2019 Falkirk [a] D1-1 (SPFL Championship - game 28)
20.07.2019 Hamilton Academical [a] D2-2 (League Cup Group F - game 3)Connor Murray:
20.01.2018 Queen of the South [a] W2-1 (Scottish Cup 4th Round)
22.09.2018 Queen of the South [h] W3-2 (SPFL Championship - game 6)
01.12.2018 Queen of the South [a] L0-1 (SPFL Championship - game 15)
26.01.2019 Queen of the South [h] W2-1 (SPFL Championship - game 22)
04.05.2019 Queen of the South [a] W3-0 (SPFL Championship - game 36)
05.10.2019 Queen of the South [h] L0-1 (SPFL Championship - game 8)
07.12.2019 Queen of the South [a] W2-1 (SPFL Championship - game 16)Declan Glass:
25.08.2018 Dundee United [a] L1-3 (SPFL Championship - game 3)
11.01.2020 Dundee United [h] L1-4 (SPFL Championship - game 21)
07.03.2020 Dundee United [a] D1-1 (SPFL Championship - game 26)Richard Foster:
10.05.2003 Aberdeen [a] L1-2 (Scottish Premier League - game 36)
13.12.2003 Aberdeen [h] L0-3 (Scottish Premier League - game 16)
09.03.2004 Aberdeen [a] D0-0 (Scottish Premier League - game 27)
01.05.2004 Aberdeen [h] W2-0 (Scottish Premier League - game 35)
26.09.2007 Aberdeen [h] L0-2 (League Cup 3rd Round)
19.09.2015 Ross County [a] L0-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 8)
19.12.2015 Ross County [h] W1-0 (SPFL Premiership - game 18)
09.04.2016 Ross County [a] L0-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 33)
10.09.2016 St Johnstone [h] L0-2 (SPFL Premiership - game 4)
29.10.2016 St Johnstone [a] W2-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 11)
01.02.2017 St Johnstone [h] L0-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 23)
11.02.2017 St Johnstone [a] W1-0 (Scottish Cup 5th Round)
13.05.2017 St Johnstone [a] L0-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 36)
08.08.2017 St Johnstone [a] W3-0 (League Cup 2nd Round)
19.08.2017 St Johnstone [a] L0-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 3)
28.04.2018 St Johnstone [a] D1-1 (SPFL Premiership - game 35)Ross Docherty:
24.09.2011 Livingston [a] L1-2 (SFL First Division - game 7)
11.02.2012 Livingston [a] L1-3 (SFL First Division - game 21)
31.03.2012 Livingston [h] L2-3 (SFL First Division - game 30)
15.09.2012 Livingston [a] W2-1 (SFL First Division - game 5)
28.07.2018 Ayr United [h] L0-2 (League Cup Group E - game 4)
04.08.2018 Ayr United [a] L0-2 (SPFL Championship - game 1)
27.10.2018 Ayr United [h] L0-1 (SPFL Championship - game 11)
31.08.2019 Ayr United [h] L2-3 (SPFL Championship - game 4)
02.11.2019 Ayr United [a] L1-4 (SPFL Championship - game 12)
31.01.2020 Ayr United [h] D1-1 (SPFL Championship - game 23)Salim Kouider-Aissa:
16.07.2019 Queen's Park [a] W2-1 (League Cup Group F - game 2) -
On 9/21/2020 at 4:27 PM, partickthedog said:
What were they all staring at? Is this a new form of intimidation that can be applied when socially distanced?
If they had any sense they would be staring at the Thistle Archive. So much to enjoy and very more-ish. Once you venture in, you keep finding more interesting sidelines and you are drawn further in until there is no escape. As in the ancient Scottish proverb, "a loch at which a gnat may drink, and in which an elephant may bathe."
One thing I must check later is a sort of opposite to the point you mention. What was the most number of different nationalities to feature in a Thistle line up? I think it was a 7 nation army and that Muzzy Dumbuya was one of the contributors, but that is all I can remember. Looks like I have no option but to venture into the site again. In the words of Captain Oates "I may be gone some time".
Cheers bud
I quite like the thought of ten mad mental Scots and a Northern Irish hard man with a pre-match stare down of the BSC. None of this cuddly nonsense!
Re the seven nation army etc, the list can get long and complex, depending on how you apply the permutations, but put simply in competitive action terms, the current records are: 10 non-Scots on the field at the same time (first set 19-Aug-2017); 9 non-Scots in the starting eleven (first set 15-Apr-2017), 8 nations represented in the Thistle appearances tally (first set 05-Apr-2016) and 8 nations represented in the Thistle starting eleven (first set 24-Feb-2018).
On 9/21/2020 at 5:24 PM, Auld Jag said:You should be part of thistle Archive team ptd.
Stand by for 1,001 web pages full of doublets, hogans and players with oo in their name!
Added to the Archive today, our 9 minor League Tables (1898-1913) incorporating the Glasgow League, Western League, Inter City League and Glasgow & District Mid-Week League.
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The Thistle Archive
in Main Jags forum
Posted
Both Jags and Morton (bottom and second bottom) forced to in the Scottish Qualifying Cup next season, a pure brassy.
Burngrange Park not so much!
http://partickthistleahistory.wikifoundry.com/page/v+West+Calder+Swifts+SC+1909