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Wilson’s post match interview name checked Kobei Moore and his comments certainly give the impression we will try and sign him.

For whatever reason James Penrice had lost his way a bit at Firhill , couple of seasons before that he had played every minute of every game His last season at Firhill he was in and out of the team which I think was maybe the Covid season Big Credit to James for turning it around

Aye but we only played 22 league games that season.

In a 22 game season that's reasonable I'd have thought? Also played in all of our league cup and Scottish cup games

He started 14 times that season and was on the bench 5 times

He might have fallen out with McCall but he was certainly playing right up to the end of the season. https://ptfc.co.uk/fixtures/first-team/archive/first-team-2020-21/

He had fallen out with Ian McCall when he left and wasn’t playing.

Penrice played just about every game in his last season with us.

I think this is a good point. We seem to get young players to be part of the first team squad but then limit their development by not having a clear idea of what the next step is from squad member to first team started. In recent times Mackenzie has suffered from being used to fill in at a number of positions rather than getting him out on loan to a team that would play him in his regular position with the hope he returns a season later ready to compete for that position. Diack similarly looked ready to go out on loan a couple of seasons ago but we kept him around as 3rd choice striker and started to force him into positions that he's not really built for. Last seasons loan to Airdrie was a start but Championship level is probably a bit too much for him to restore his confidence. Unfortunately with his injury it looks like he won't get a loan until January again. Stanway has progressed further but has had the chance to go on loan and has never really been put in any other position than midfield which has probably aided his development. So in my mind the the big issue with our development of players is not getting them regular game time in their preferred position when they have shown they are too good for youth football but not quite ready for the first eleven. The only real way to address that is to get them out on loan to a club that will play them. Perhaps if we had a co-operation arrangement with a Dumbarton or Stirling we might bridge that gap

Penrice played 24/27 games in the season he left. Nisbet has stated multiple times that he wasn't living a professional lifestyle at Firhill and us releasing him gave him the kick up the arse he needed. Fair play to Penrice, if you'd asked me where he'd be 4 years after leaving us I'd have said Scottish Championship at highest. I agree about MacKenzie though, he broke through at end of 22/23 season and has basically wasted 2 years on the bench, we still don't even know what position is best for him. Now he's in the final year of his contract and we don't know whether we should be looking to offer an extension. Diack is a more difficult one as we've played with one up front since Rudden left and Graham was very rarely injured or suspended and we've had likes of Dowds and Adeloye as backup. Probably should have had more loan time that he did but if we put him out on loan and Graham got injured for a couple of months then folk would have moaned about that. Cieran Loney was referred to earlier, he's just signed a 2-year extension at Everton today and we do have a sell on in that deal https://x.com/EvertonAcademy/status/1941467099723120792

Don’t think it’s just how we develop Academy players, it’s how we coach them after that at first team level as well Mackenzie and Diack have been about the First Team for the last 2/3 years with very little development and not starting a lot of games . We didn’t get the best out of Penrice or Kevin Nisbett , neither were playing for the first team when they left but developed elsewhere.

Possibly the 2 you mentioned were development fees and they hardly played a first team game , we haven’t got a great record of developing our Academy players over the last 20 years who go on to bigger and better things and help us financially like Motherwell , Hibs or even Hamilton Hopefully players like Stanway , McKenzie, Diack will push on , with Ben Stanway my bet to go on to bigger and better things .

The lad who moved to Everton, and the one that moved to Rangers who then passed him off down south come to mind

Match report on Hamilton game: https://ptfc.co.uk/ptfc-match-report/partick-thistle-v-hamilton-accies-5th-july-2025/

I've no idea if we had a sell on clause when he went to Livi or not but as he joined Hearts on a free the point is moot in any case.

I think there are more than those mentioned. Fitzpatrick was also part of the academy and we got money for him. There have also been at least a couple that have gone straight from the academy to other clubs for fees albeit small ones. Are we not including the players that come through and play for us. At the moment we’ve got Stanway, MacKenzie and Diack who are part of the 1st team set up.

So 3 wins from 3 as we head towards the start of the league cup might indicate it is not as doom and gloom as some had it a few weeks ago but squad is still a bit light so hopefully we will see some more signings before Friday night - a striker being the obvious position that needs attention.

Sorry, I'm looking at this purely from a sales point of view. Regardless of your points if we can't push the fact those players were involved within our youth system then I'd have to put that down to very poor salesmanship

I doubt that there was any agreement in place as no one probably foresaw the improvement in James Penrice but hopefully moving on we could learn from our experience .

That depends on what the buying and selling club agree, every deal is different and Celtic were in a very strong position to include sell on clause the immediate and the next transfer. I seriously doubt we are in that position with anyone, and the fact the Penner's left livi at the end of his contract would mean in previous circumstances we'd have got nada as you can't enforce an agreement onto his next club, or club after that. Thankfully the current system allows a bit more flexibility to reward the developing club. If for j low was to move on for a few at the end of this season, we'd get that transfer fee as he's under contract, the end of the season after we could get no transfer fee unless he signs a new contract but there would be a development fee due to his age. but as I understand it the thistle academy and also his previous club (as he had only been in the academy a few years) would get a payment as well. Could be wrong, and happy to be corrected by someone that knows more about the current transfer system but that's my understanding

Got to disagree if you break it down , probably 4 players if you include Liam Lindsay in the last 20 years have been part of the youth set up at PTFC Nisbet and Penrice were let go and have prospered elsewhere Jack Hendry played a few games for us having been part of the Dundee United Academy and then we got a fee for him Liam Lindsay has carved out a good career for himself and we got a decent fee for him but if our Academy can only produce 3 or 4 players in the last 20 years , is that really good enough?

Not sure that is right , if you look at Van Dijk going from Celtic to Southampton then to Liverpool and Celtic picking up add on fees for every transfer that is made . Obviously with Penrice going to Livi after running down his contract there would be no add ons but moving to Greece for a fee surely if we had a Sell on Clause it would be implemented

And given he left us for livi, surely any sell on clause would be limited to what livi sold him for.... But given he left them for free, to join hearts at end of his contact that's probably where it would have ended without the development fees. I'm sure both us, livi and the thistle Weir academy all get money from that as he's moving to another country

Was the deal not conditional to Tiffoney signing for us? Could be we couldn't write sell ons into contract. One thing it's another feather in our bow re our youth set up. Good selling point for future recruits when you can mention the likes of Nisbet, Hendry & Penrice coming thru our system

That would have come into play when Livvy sold him to Hearts.