Arete
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Posts posted by Arete
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1 hour ago, javeajag said:
I’m not missing any point ….I watched it live …..tiffoney and rudden were let’s say in need of eh media training …..it was funny and I for one took no offense but of course the offense police are out with their buckets of cold water …..for me it passed the billy Connolly test
do you work in the public sector ?
Ha, I have worked in the public sector - how did you know.....? I think it was a witty quip in the way that Bernard Manning and Benny Hill used to be seen as funny. Maybe not now. I'm glad if the guys have taken it in the way intended. But just think the manager needs to remember he's a senior representative of the club and I'd like our club to be professional at all times.
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24 minutes ago, javeajag said:
Ffs get a grip …..it was a laugh as the tweet from tiffoney shows….some people are giving political correctness a bad name
You're missing the point. JEL put money into the club and we shouldn't be embarrassing sponsors. McCall should keep his 'banter' out of public interviews. He's a senior employee. And the club shouldn't put players up for interviews if they think the players aren't up to that. We might not like it but the club operates in 2021 not the 1970s.
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McCall's comments were made in jest, I think, but that doesn't detract from the inappropriate way of talking about employees. Probably only becomes an issue if one of them complained but someone at the club maybe needs a quiet word with him. Football might think it's different but it's just another business subject to same rules as the rest of us. Just Employment Law is a sponsor - maybe we should ask their thoughts on the comments.
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21 minutes ago, javeajag said:
Please explain what the easy politics is about apparently targeting football ?
This is a football forum but since you ask. Case rates have increased considerably since schools in Scotland went back and there is clearly a connection. Should we close schools? Educate at home? Increase testing at schools? Have more pupils self-isolate? No-one wants these. There are serious consequences to further disrupting our children's education. But we need to be seen to be doing something because our case rates are so high and it wouldn't reflect well on the Scottish government if it looked like it was sitting on its hands. Vaccine passports at football grounds is an easy option in comparison - most people are already vaccinated, can't really enforce it so can't be checked and it looks like we know what we're doing. Which would you do?
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32 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:
Testing and a far quicker better track and trace would be more proactive.
Encouraging more folk to get the vaccine instead of forcing their backs to the wall would also help, offer something if they take it instead of removing liberties if they don’t
34 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:So, what's your solution? Do nothing? Do something? If something, what?
I think Norgethistle has answered for me. His suggestions are sensible. This is a (mostly) football forum. My point was that football matches are not the Covid problem so why target them? Easy politics? Norgethistle has given the government better options. Testing, better tracking and tracing, incentives for vaccination, etc. Maybe he should be Scotland's Health Minister
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1 hour ago, Jaggernaut said:
Just a couple of thoughts: the media have been screaming for the country to return to normal. Bars, restaurants, travel companies, all screaming at the government that this is armageddon unless everybody can go back to being normal. And the media pumps this out (especially in Scotland, where the media is controlled by anti-Scottish concerns). Those who oppose the government jump on the bandwagon. Not surprisingly, as a result of relaxation of "rules," infection rates go up, and then those same people are in fact happy to scream at the government that they are not doing enough. The government then suggests some kind of filtering system so that only vaccinated people can attend certain events. Those same screamers then say this is like North Korea, or the nazis: you need to carry ID, or you need to be "forcibly" vaccinated.
And ask the screamers (none of whom actually know much, other than what they read on their favourite websites) what they would do: you get laughable suggestions, biased or frankly outrageous examples, or silence.
Enjoy the game tomorrow everybody, if it's on.
Covid rates in Scotland went up when the schools went back. Even our less favourite websites show that. I don't advocate closing the schools but vaccine passports for outdoor football grounds do not address the problem. It just makes it look like you're doing something when you're not really achieving anything.
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Don't wish to become too political but this is in line with recent posts. I think most of us agree that the vaccine passport for football grounds won't change case levels in Scotland. It won't really improve vaccine rates in Scotland (which are actually pretty high) and there is no explanation how you can check the vaccine status of over 10,000 people at an event anyway. So, what is the purpose of bringing in vaccine passports at football matches? Politicians are risk averse. This is about our decision-makers trying to protect themselves not us. They'll say they've done everything they could (even where it wasn't necessary). Any risk of criticism of the Scottish government would affect their ultimate goal of having an independence referendum (and their chances of winning it)
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17 minutes ago, Norgethistle said:
I don’t need a V-Passport to enter Scotland, need 2 tests (2 days before & 2 days after), but now I need a V-Passport to go to a gig, nightclub or game over 10000.
The 10000 makes no sense, is it if capacity is over 10000 or if crowd is over 10000?10000 in Hampden is empty but have 2000 in Dumbarton and it’s a full house. The formal has less risk of transmission than the later but the later needs no V-Passport
Agree with this. When it comes to outdoor events - and we're mostly talking about football matches now as this doesn't come in till October - they're just making it up as they go along. Where's their evidence? Your example of Hampden v Dumbarton is a good one. We also had none of this during the Euros when less people were vaccinated and the risk, therefore, was probably greater.
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18 hours ago, BowenBoys said:
You obviously have a great deal of data. Is your analysis based only on data from Scotland? I'm curious because of the specific reference to Cornwall.
I'm not aware of data specific to Scottish football matches. Probably some data available around the Euros and Scotland but from what I understand the increase in cases was more connected to people coming together indoors. I think the Scottish government will use whatever info is available from elsewhere. The big increase in cases in Cornwall correlate to the music Festival. But I don't think you can compare an event which includes overnight camping and tens of thousands coming into the area from other parts of the UK with a match at Firhill or any Scottish ground. Scotland currently has case rates double that of England. We're both attending football matches but only Scotland has schools back in.
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1 hour ago, westertonjagfan said:
This is correct. Getting vaccinated reduces your chance of getting severe Covid or transmitting. I'd prefer going to Firhill with 100% of the crowd vaccinated. But that's not going to happen. My point is there is little risk in going to the football. The unvaccinated will get their Covid indoors in the pub afterwards. If the government want to encourage more people to get vaccinated by restricting access to football for those unvaccinated then they should say that's why they're doing it instead of making it seem like there having to do this to prevent more transmission.
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17 minutes ago, westertonjagfan said:
BMJ-part of the difficulty is the lack of ability to gather evidence.
>Just 28 positive cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection were identified among more than 58 000 people who attended nine large events in April and May included in a pilot programme set up to examine the risks of transmission and how they can be reduced.
But although the evaluation of the first phase of the government’s Events Research Programme found “no substantial outbreaks,”1 it conceded that it was a challenge “to generate robust, generalisable evidence of the transmission risk associated with particular events” because of the low prevalence of the virus at the time and the low uptake of PCR testing before and after the events.
Not too sure when BMJ wrote that but we've had a month of full stadiums in English league and no large increase in cases in England which is evidence that football attendance has little impact on Covid transmission.
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There's no evidence that attending an outdoor football match leads to Covid transmission rise. The Euros saw a spike in cases due to people watching it together indoors. Not by attending matches. There's also no evidence for 10,000 and above. This is a random figure. The only example of an outdoor event which increased transmission and Covid rates was a music festival in Cornwall with 50,000 people and had a tented village. If they're trying to cajole the unvaccinated to get a vaccine then they should say that is the reason. This is a government that is trying to make itself look like it's doing something and completely missing the mark.
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Dropped off this for a while but hopefully I can still take a punt on the final. Been working in London of late and they're certainly up for it. If I hear 'coming home' again.......
Italy 1 England 0
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Are you allowed a slightly late entry? Half time in first game (been working today). I've given the first result as a 0 0 as a penalty. Cheers
0 0
2 1
2 2
1 2
3 0
2 1
0 0
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On 6/17/2021 at 9:55 PM, BowenBoys said:
Match Day 3 fixtures
20 June 17:00
Switzerland v Turkey
Italy* v Wales
21 June 20:00
Russia v Denmark*
Finland v Belgium
21 June 17:00
North Macedonia v Netherlands*
Ukraine v Austria
22 June 20:00
Croatia v Scotland*
Czech Republic v England*
23 June 17:00
Slovakia v Spain*
Sweden v Poland
23 June 20:00
Portugal v France
Germany* v HungaryDeadline for submissions 5pm, Sunday 20 June
Again, not much time after Match Day 2 fixtures conclude so thinking caps on.
Just getting in on time - here goes for Match Day 3 for me:
1 1
3 1
0 2
0 4
0 0
3 2
1 1
1 3
1 2
1 2
1 1
1 3
Cheers
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Hi. Match 2 for me
1 1
2 1
1 2
0 0
2 0
3 1
1 1
3 1
0 0
4 1
1 4
0 0
Cheers
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On 5/13/2021 at 12:34 PM, BowenBoys said:
Euro 2020 Prediction League
11 June - 11 July 2021
Predict the score in all 51 games
Points
3 points for Correct Score. 1 point for Correct Result.
Favourite Team
Nominate one team as your favourite. Any points accrued in games involving your favourite will be doubled.
Final Scores
In all games (Group and Knockout) you will be predicting the score at 90 minutes + time added on. Extra time and penalties are irrelevant.
Predictions
There will be 7 rounds of predictions; 3 Group matches, Round of 16, Quarters, Semis & Final.
Deadlines between rounds may be short. Late entries will be allowed but any match that has started will be void.
To enter, post your favourite team.The games will be played in 11 countries. 9 of these have teams competing in the championship. These countries will play most, if not all, of their group matches at a home ground.
In the fixture lists I will identify those occurrences with an asterisk beside the home team.Match Day 1 fixtures
11 June 20:00
Turkey v Italy*12 June 14:00
Wales v Switzerland12 June 17:00
Denmark* v Finland12 June 20:00
Belgium v Russia*13 June 20:00
Netherlands* v Ukraine13 June 17:00
Austria v North Macedonia13 June 14:00
England* v Croatia14 June 14:00
Scotland* v Czech Republic14 June 20:00
Spain* v Sweden14 June 17:00
Poland v Slovakia15 June 17:00
Hungary* v Portugal15 June 20:00
France v Germany*Plenty of time to mull over these.
Deadline for submissions 8pm, 11 JunePlease list scores only on 12 rows. This will enable me to copy/paste to spreadsheet and eliminate errors. Any of the following are acceptable.
1 - 0
2 2
11.1
0----2Good to see you doing this again BB. Mine below:
England
0 1
1 3
3 0
1 1
2 0
0 0
1 1
2 1
2 0
0 0
2 1
0 0
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2 hours ago, Norgethistle said:
We have blamed everything from COVID to other clubs for our failure last without looking internally at the common theme. Bad leadership with no clear direction
Can't argue with that. Pretty much sums the last year or two up.
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I can understand the unhappiness with McColl and I think he is the wrong man for the job too. He got lucky with the last minute equaliser. But the issue is bigger than McColl. We are a club that has lost direction. From top six in Premier to being (almost) happy with a draw to get us to 5th place in League One. The club clearly lacks leadership and governance leading to poor decision making. We need to change more than just a manager.
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10 hours ago, lady-isobel-barnett said:
Can't disagree with your sentiments but there were moves over the summer to reorganise football and we all saw how that ended up. My glass is very much half empty when "change for the better" issues are discussed within Scottish Football. Voting in favour of the status quo is effectively chronic. Maintaining the inane four time a season 10 club leagues a prime example of the nonsense fans have to put up with.
I get your point about the differences between part time and full time clubs but see it slightly differently. Firstly I believe that technically it would be difficult to define what is actually a full time club. think there could be a few grey areas. Secondly, and more to the point, a reorganised league set up would accommodate more places than full time clubs within its top two tiers.
Unfortunately as witnessed last summer we don't have the mechanisms to effect change. Too many clubs simply vote on what's good for them at the particular time of the vote and longer term issues come secondary. I realise that an element of fiduciary duty within individual clubs comes into play. So it's up to the ruling bodies, who after all are there to run the game, to overcome any "me first" attitudes. And that sadly is why my glass is half empty.
I'm forced to agree. Without reorganisation Scottish football will, at best, tread water. Scottish football, more than most leagues, has really struggled with Covid. It's been stop-start, in-fighting and external criticism. I fear we won't learn from the negative experience and may well fall further behind those whose model is stronger (includes lower English) when the world recovers from the stresses that Covid has brought.
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Maybe Scottish football needs to re-organise itself so that there is a structure for full-time clubs and one for part-time. League Two clubs have more in common with Highland and Lowland. Thistle, as a club, have more in common with Premier and Championship clubs. Same with Falkirk and maybe QP going the same way. We used to restrict entry to those with 10,000 seats in the Premier. Maybe we should restrict Championship to full-time only. Post-covid will not be the same as pre-Covid for many businesses and we maybe need to think differently about how Scottish football protects itself and grows stronger from this.
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I agree with the comments that clubs like Thistle, Falkirk and QP are being discriminated against. All other full-time clubs in the UK are being allowed to continue playing apart from these three. Imagine if Thistle were a pub that was forced to stay closed while all the other pubs were open. Could be a case for legal action if the season is closed. Just saying.
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I'll take 8 minutes. Cheers
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Just when you're getting on with life up pops the Scottish Cup again. If Celtic win this weekend then I'd be happy if a tier 4 level lockdown for the Final voided the tournament. Thanks for the prompt BowenBoys. I'll take Celtic and Hibs. Might as well try to win. Cheers
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Independent Fans Statement
in Main Jags forum
Posted
Norge, I'll DM you my name too. Cheers