CotterJag
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Posts posted by CotterJag
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Never have caught a good result against them.
Would take a scrappy nothing each tomorrow but you never know.
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Nonsense.
Most probably.
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Was looking and found this. Seems the stats are completely reversed from when I first looked a couple of years ago.Just 200 or 300 pens over 100 years for non OF teams? Nah. CJ, sorry to say that report seems like bunkum.
It takes years of real dedication to source these figures; your Celtic researcher was taking on a task that was way beyond casual enquiry, although, it has to be said, he did well to come up with so many for the gruesome twosome.
Davy Allan (Hearts historian) tells that they've SCORED 733 competitive pens, so they must have been awarded around 900.
We know Thistle have several hundred.
Beyond the OF, most of the auld brigade of clubs will not deviate too much from around 600 to 900.
As much as I'd love to know these details, it seems a quick google search should not be believed.
All scottish tournaments since 1890/1891 untill 2001/2002
Red cards..Rangers=575,,,,,Celtic=622
Yellow cards..Rangers=1522,,,,Celtic=1777
Penalty's for..Rangers=1027,,,,Celtic=896
Penalty's against..Rangers=328,,,,Celtic=459
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Love this thread but struggle to name most players tbh.
I saw a picture a while back of Ray Farningham.
It reminded me of a goal he scored versus Morton from what seemed like the half way line. We won 1 - 0 that day and about 2000 Thistle fans got attacked by 5 Morton fans.
Even the police were laughing when they ran round the corner towards us after the game.
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^ agree that they should have more as they will almost certainly have been attacking more.
Not sure if averaging 7 or 8 more per season is representative of this or not.
I can think of one or two that were a bit soft
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I definitely had to renew my confabulation licence before throwing stats on a quote linked to you TJR, so figures are approx. and from memory.^ Those are huge pen totals for the OF, especially given it's just a 100 year window analysed.
We have 670 known penalties in 5,554 competitive games.
I'd imagine Hearts would be up around the 750 mark?
Oddly enough, I don't recall seeing thistle in the list but the next team up was Hibernian with something like 377 pens in 100 years.
I'll maybe try and find the details again one day but it seemed that most teams were between 200 and 300 pens barring the OF of course.
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I remember a couple of years back being so disgusted at our lack of penalties, that I tried to find out how many each team had had in previous years.
● Steven McLean looks on admiringly as Dougie Imrie pulls off a fantastic save.
Couldn't find too much but did find a piece from the early 00's, written by a Celtic fan. It was at a time when Celtic were feeling persecuted by all and sundry and said fella was trying to prove how many penalties Rangers, as they were known back then, had been 'given'.
His findings were quite surprising but he still delivered them.
I can't remember exact pens or all teams but it went something like this:
Between 1901 and 2001 the following teams had these totals;
Celtic - 1120
Rangers - 997
An incredible amount per season on average.
Anyone like to guess who came next and roughly how many pens they got?
I can only remember the next team and roughly how many.
I'll post the number later anyway.
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Happy with a point and a nice to follow up to the three from Saturday.
I don't see any teams in this league where a draw away is a bad result.
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Save Dools for the next game and give Sammon a run out at half timeOnly 3??
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I was only 11 months old, but my whole family were at the game.
Not sure who was baby sitting. Lol.
We lived in the tenement at the Cowcaddens end of the Garscube Road. It's one of the last standing in that area.
The one above the shop next to the red ash pitch.
I'm the proud owner of a ticket from that day, passed on to me from an uncle.
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I'd go with:
Cerny
McGinn Devine Keown Turnbull
Barton
Lawless Erskine Edwards Spittal
Doolan
Doolan is too clinical a finisher to leave out on that surface.
Have visions of him easily sliding the ball just wide of their keeper - 3 times.
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Just have a feeling we have some goals in us tomorrow.
I'm going 3-1 Thistle.
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the skill of Lawless + the vision of Turnbull + the precision of Doolan + the instinct of Storey + what it meant = the goal of the season.
Calling it.
I've now watched the goal more than 30 times. Everything about it is great.
I really thought Doolan had under hit the pass when I first seen it but it really was precision
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Thanks MB, does seem plausible.We started with 4 at the back but Turnbull at left back couldn't handle the Dundee winger so we moved to 3 at the back with Turnbull moved to LCB and McGinn and Lawless wingbacks. Lawless has done this before - sometimes he's been fine at other times it hasn't worked but he did OK and keeping him on kept one of our more skillful players on the park. Though I guess Nitrianksky can't be rated as more than an emergency player now or he'd have been brought on. That, the good result not withstanding, is a little worrying. Could Archie play himself?
A shame about Nitriansky, as I thought he looked quite the player in his first game.
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Made me chuckle.One time for each defender?
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Would need to watch it again, but could be down to the gap caused across the middle of the park when we attack and the move breaks down.If we played as if we had six defenders why did it feel they broke forward outnumbering us on about six occasions?
As an example, McGinn has ran just past the half way line and put a diagonal cross in to the middle towards Sammon and his supporting attack.
Defenders easily win the header and play it beyond 4 of our players. Dundee then break and run at our 5 / 6 defenders, who are on the back foot.
By this time, Barton has pretended to be marking the nearest man to him, instead of running after his actual man, McGinn is struggling to get back following his poor cross, Sammon, Erskine and McCarthy are up front while they are bearing down on us.
In the meantime, Lawless is wondering what he has done to deserve all this as he scurries back having watched another defenders cross from a terrible position.
At this point, Turnbull, Devine and Keown are trying to work out who's turn it is to run out and hack down the onrushing players.
Possible slight exaggeration
but this can be overcome by 4 1 4 1, where Booth / Turnbull, stay wide and pass to proper wingers who will take men on and cross the ball from further forward.If the two centre backs really can't mark one man between them, they should drop Barton in to help when needed.
I also think it would make Booth look far better, as I'm sure he looks the type that can hold position, tackle and pass the ball to a wide man. There aren't many players in the world that can run a whole wing to themselves, although Duncan Ferguson probably did.
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It's funny how we can see a game differently. I watched on tele and know how different that can seem from being at the ground.For a game that had two teams who were relatively shite. It had everything and was quite entertaining in parts. Well, in an end to end, last ditch, wild tackling, ridiculous misses sort of entertainment.
Word on the street was we were going 4 at the back with Turnbull returning. It turned out to be a return to the back 5 set up with Lawless as wing back. Well, in a not crossing the half way line, man marking the winger, staying in line with your centre half's, wing back role.
The fact we won you could say it worked, but man on man, I don't think Lawless actually won the ball off his man once and was skinned quite a few times. But I take my hat off to him. He stuck rigidly to the task. His head never went down. His only attacking involvement I can remember resulted in the winner.
Inside him, Turnbull is a cracking centre half and should be a first pick. Keown isn't repeating last season's form and looks lost at times. In a back 5 Devine is a cool calm collected leader.
Outside them McGinn had a poor game, but such was the complete shambles of formation in front of him he was covering the whole right flank. His delivery was bloody stinking at times though.
In the midfield we added McCarthy, but it didn't really improve things. He seemed unfit, the game passed him by and at times it felt like he was actually just literally shadowing Barton or Edwards. When either lost possession, he was nowhere near the first pass as he was still standing about 2 yards behind Barton or Edwards. I asked early in the first half, how early can you sub a young lad without denting his confidence. The change wasn't too far away.
At times our midfield seemed missing. Barton was dropping deep into a 6. Edwards supporting Erskime and Sammon meant there was a bloody great hole in the middle of the park for their centre half's to charge into. And keep going and going.
Erskine was trying way too hard. Maybe he got a fckin roasting off Archie after Saturday. But if you try the same flick over and over and it's still not working you need to try something else.
Up top Sammon was a handful. Won his fair share of long balls and the ones he lost, he did enough to make sure the defenders header wasn't an easy clean one. But he was totally isolated and had no support at all.
Introducing Spittal allowed us to start winning second balls and get the game played in their half. Along with the introduction of Doolan and Storey it changed the game for us.
As wins go, I'll bloody take that. It wasn't pretty but it was needed and gives is something to build on.
Lastly. What can be said about Tam Cerny that hasn't been said before. The guy is a hero.
I was convinced we played a rather poorly executed 4 1 4 1 and that would have made sense to me with the players we had on the park.
Everyone else sees it as 3 5 1 1 (I think)??
Agree with player ratings but I gave Lawless some slack as I felt he'd been abandoned. It now seems he was supposed to be stuck on the left on his own.
I really hope we never play that formation again as it allows certain players in the middle to hide and you end up with 6 defenders and an isolated attack.
Every centre back wants to be a sweeper and will pull others in to mark the men they should be marking.
Give each player a role and make him accountable for it. No passing the buck.
2 simple rules at the back; full backs should never drop deeper than centre backs and centre backs should avoid pulling full backs in to do their job for them.
That's that sorted
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Delighted with the 3 points today after a performance that could have been punished by Dundee.
Although we're not a million miles away from an acceptable level, there is cause for concern at the back.
Keown and Devine are doing what amateur players do by pulling in the full backs to mark men they or Barton should pick up.
This in turn means that our wingers can be squeezed and have to sit deeper. I honestly don't know how Lawless coped for 93 minutes. It must be driving him crazy.
In addition to this, when Turnbull and in particular McGinn did go wide, their distribution was woeful.
In a 4 4 2, it is purely their job to mark the opposing winger and give the ball wo their own winger. Not get dragged in by over cautious centre backs and then cross the ball from the half-way line.
McGinn and Turnbull managed to make the easiest role on the park look the most difficult.
I give full credit to the 'forward' players who kept at it despite playing in front of a 4 men defence that wanted to mark 1 man between them and a holding player that doesn't mark anyone either.
Wish I'd saved this post for tomorrow, as was jumping for joy 20 minutes ago, having watched the 2nd goal 15 times.
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We'll do this today. Usually look on here for goals etc., but on Alba at 6pm, so effectively will watch 'live' and avoid the score.
2 1 Jags
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Agree they are decent options and about the long run of poor form.Owen Coyle, Steve Clarke and Paul Hartley have just taken jobs at teams around our level. All three would have been decent options for us so let's no pretend there's no one out there. Even poaching someone like Hopkin from Livingston could be an option.
I don't want to see Archie go but we might have no choice. This isn't just a slight dip in form, it's an alarmingly long run where we look short of confidence and out of ideas. Right now I just can't see where a win is coming from. Killie were up for it yesterday and we weren't.
He has major problems. Pairing Edwards and Barton in the midfield is one of them. They just don't work together and he keeps persevering with them. You might say he has no choice with Bannigan, Osman and Fraser out but I disagree. McCarthy has looked promising every time I've seen him and should be getting starts now.
The wing backs are a problem, and that's something that he can't really help. Just bad luck. McGinn actually looks quite good but Nitriansky for me, from what I've seen, isn't anything special at this level.
Storey and Sammon haven't set the heather alight and it's something that I mentioned after the Hearts game - their partnerships with Doolan don't look anywhere near being formed effectively. Whereas Doolan and Erskine know each other's games inside out, the other two can't seem to find any patterns/rhythm together. This is a major problem when Erskine has matches like yesterday where he did absolutely nothing.
This is not like last season where you could see the signs that we were a decent team. We look ordinary right now and it's worrying.
Personally I'd give Archie the next two games. That way he's played every team in the league. If you've played every team in the league and you've not beat any of them, then there's no defence. It's time to go. Let's hope he can get a win or two.
Also don't want Archie to leave and glad he didn't when approached by other teams.
Thistle fans in general are very supporting of managers and we treat them with far greater respect than most teams fans ever would.
The songs sung for Archie and Johnny Lambie have made my day and no doubt theirs on many an occasion. They both, I believe, found their place at Firhill and whilst loyalty shouldn't mean a job for life in a results orientated footballing world, we owe these guys and SP a chance beyond at least the next window.
We'd feel as good as they would if we turned it round by the end of the season.
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I dread to think who we could get to replace Archie and co.
A terrible fixture run to start the season and some really bad injuries haven't helped the guys.
Not many teams could cope with losing so many key players at the same time.
Seasons are long enough to overcome such woes and I believe we will.
9th and good Scottish Cup run will do me
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Hi Everyone,
(first post).
Easy to laugh off the comments around player size etc., but in the modern game it can certainly be a disadvantage.
If a smaller player goes against a bigger player, they will have to use a greater percentage of their overall strength to overcome a stature imbalance.
This in turn makes them appear more aggressive and it's easy to punish them by giving free kicks etc.
On top of this, opposing managers have already drawn attention to our 'aggressive nature' in pre-match interviews.
As it turned out, Slovenia were bigger and more aggressive, whilst our footballing skills were just a little light to overcome this.
On another note, and regarding genetics, I did read that pre World War 1, Scotland was the tallest nation on the planet.
If that was the case, then it will be again..... one day.
In the meantime, we need to focus on individual skill, intelligence on the field and tactics.
Thanks
CotterJag.
How The League Is Looking.
in Main Jags forum
Posted
The trouble is, the best footballer is not always the best player on the day and he took some unfair criticism at times.
I was gutted when we let him go as felt despite his injuries, he was far too good to move on.
I'm trying to learn to accept that other less able footballers can still contribute to the team and guys like Edwards, Osman and Bannigan, none of whom could lace Welsh's boots, are still capable of playing well.
There's a fine balance to picking a winning team and too many 'footballers' might not be the answer, despite it being personally preferable.
Our team probably only has 3 or 4 all round footballers currently fit - Doolan, Barton, Lawless and Spittal.
That's fine for any team as long as they are on their game and the other 7 or 8 are playing as well as they can in their position / role.
The problem we have is that the other 7 or 8 are off form or out of position.
They are niche players and need the comfort of playing the position they know well.
I'm sure Archie will get it right when some of the injuries clear up and players revert to more familiar roles.