beep0608

Ok, that sounds familiar, but I can't imagine that would qualify as an emergency. Losing Griffiths would be a major on field loss, and even £150k doesn't really help that much in terms of saving them, as their biggest danger is the HMRC objection to the CVA. That money would be evenly divided I assume, so the % owed to HMRC would remain the same. I really am getting a bit fed up with all this keech though. Dragged out apparently random punishments, leading to and encouraging endless appeals, bleating and moaning.....zzzzzzz I mean Dundee and Cellic of course.

That's us up to about 40 now. Anyway, when I said the Thistle crest, I was thinking of something like a wee label like you get on most Jags clothing merchandise, not printed on the scarf or anything. I don't know what Geoffrey or whoever would put on it, as a label or whatever. Still no word back from Scotweb or Greaves. If I've not heard by then I'll call them next week.

That's funny. I don't remember that 2-2 at all. I thought it was going to be that other Firhill 2-2 where Ian Ferguson (no, not THAT ugly H*n) scored a cracker for Motherwell that even had some of us in the shed applauding. Wasn't it great to see so many fans packed in behind both goals?

The SFA hear Dundee's appeal tomorrow. Can we trust them to do the right thing? Hmmm, not really, but people will moan whatever they decide. I'm fed up with all these appeals, Celtic and Dundee paranoia, everybody hates us, and on and on, and on... Dundee's administrator was on Beyond The SPL tonight. He said that Dundee will have their CVA creditors meeting around 4th February. That means they can't come out of admin before then, in which case the transfer window is closed. Can loans be arranged after that? Obviously I'm thinking of Griffiths in particular. If they come out of admin does the transfer embargo get lifted immediately? So many questions. I wish we were discussing the game itself. Jings.

Yes. I'd hope so. No word back from Scotweb or Greaves yet but I'll give them time. It's a week until the meeting, but I have been led to believe the club would be unable to allow the club logo on it as Greaves do all that. Alternatives would include Greaves, or else we could produce our own, potentially, as a "supporters club" possibly? Geoffrey said we may need to consider royalties etc. I'll do my best here, and will not just drop it as there is clearly interest. Even if this sparked the interest of Greaves I'd be happy, as long as I get my scarf. Otherwise, I'd be happy to try independently. Let's see. Thanks for the support and interest. Maybe I'll get my Thistle tartan scarf back yet.

Seemingly it's a very near run thing. I assume any 150k from Wolves or whoever makes no difference to the % of debt owed, so if HMRC are still against the CVA then it's still on a knife edge, if reports are true. I would be disgusted if they were allowed to keep Griffiths under these arrangements. Surely this would not be allowed. He's clearly the sort of player who could gain them many points, and that would seem very unjust. The way things are, nothing would surprise me.

I'm still asking about this, to see what the different organisations say. I got a response from Geoffrey but they were talking about a minimum order of 80, though at only £10 each. There were conditions though, they mentioned permissions and possible royalties which was strange as I thought they'd know about these things already. That's quite different to what they said last year so I wonder of they're just making it up as they go. A bit of negotiation could be worthwhile. I've also contacted Scotweb for bulk order prices, and Greaves. Scotweb apparently do Thistle scarves but they only advertise them as individual scarves at about £85 each. Let's see what they say and what it amounts to. I believe that Thistle would be unable to do anything themselves as Greaves hold the merch contract, but they would welcome a donation from any profits. Leave this with me and we'll see what we can come up with. I have some other ideas too, along these lines. Other ways we could generate funds for our common cause, and have some fun along the way. Dundee fans are doing it for obvious reasons, but why can't we do something similar? We are supporters after all. Just vague ideas off the top of my big head, but there's no harm in that.

I'm feckin glad we did sell him, and Twaddle, else we'd have beaten Dundee to wherever they are now. I'm not saying our sins amount to theirs, but ignoring tax debts is the stupidest, as Dundee now know better than anyone. That was vital cash that we'd not had in for many seasons, or since, aside from a couple of cup runs which you can never depend on.

I'd happily suggest that to them. I'd like any profit to go to the club anyway, and I wouldn't mind a wee Jags label on it if poss. If they weren't interested then we could do it ourselves, and know we gave them the chance. This is assuming that Geoffrey, or even Scotweb or another place will do a run, but I don't see why they wouldn't. It's still good business. By ra way, I counted back and that's up to 28 scarves so far. I wouldn't pay silly money, but you can see how that could multiply out up to something quite worthwhile, for the club or whoever manufactures them. This would be a bit of a luxury item compared to a normal scarf, so I'd expect it to be £20 or more, but that's just a wild guess. I've paid a lot more than that for items in the Jags shop or Greaves before.

On the BBC Scotland phone-in (I think) they said that Hamilton reduced prices to £10 Adults, £5 concessions, and £1 kids. Even then they barely got a thousand. Apparently Alloa brought about 180 fans.

Good idea. May look into that...

I didn't expect that many responses, but that's great. Last year Geoffrey (Tailor) in Sauchiehall Street, just across from the dental hospital, said they would do a run, but I can't remember what the minumum order was. I'll find out but I think it was only about 8 or 10 so we already have that many. The price may reduce depending on how many we order. The more the better hopefully. Scotweb do them, according to their site, but being one-offs they're expensive, about £85 each, which is much more than I'd be willing to spend, especially as I'd assume Thistle would get nothing from it, or not much anyway. If it came to that I'd rather do something through Thistle. Maybe we can anyway, maybe even via Greaves as they might have the contract for any Thistle merch. There may be different options in terms of quality of material. When I bought the Thistle tartan scarf about 3 or 4 few years ago I loved it, but it was more expensive than your average scarf. Fair enough I thought. You get what you pay for, but it's a one off, unless it ends up in the washing machine. Doh! Leave it with me folks. I'm confident we'll be able to do something.

I mentioned this some time ago, but I ruined my Jags tartan scarf at the end of last season by getting it mixed up with other clothes, and it went into the washing machine, without me knowing. I liked it, and would like another. They're no longer available from the club, but the company who do the tartan said they would do a run, when I asked a while back. I can't remember the minimum number of scarves involved, or how much they'd cost each, but is anybody else interested? It wasn't a huge number, something like 8 or 10 scarves possibly. If even a few of you express an interest then I could ask again. I'd be more then happy to involve the club, in case they could profit in any way, though I'm not sure how. Even if we got a few of you interested, we could maybe do something like split the costs, have one scarf each, then...auction off the spare scarves, or something? I'm not looking for personal profit here though. Any profits could go somewhere appropriate, though not necessarily into a bucket outside Dens....charity begins at home. For now though , could anybody interested say so here please?

I just checked the Dundee forum and some of them seem to be realising how close they are to the brink. I understand that they need MORE than 75% of the vote, based on the debt, to stay alive. If HMRC alone have more than 24% that is it. They're quoted as having at least 24% already, according to the calculations printed today. As posted in the other topic, if we signed Scott Fox, say, that would reduce the football debt, and increase the HMRC's share... What a thought. Incredible that it's on such a knife edge...but we're talking about Dundee's throat here.

We now have two threads on the same track, more or less, but without repeating everything on the other one, if the HMRC's claim reaches 25% of the debt, and they do vote against, then that may be the end for Dundee. Did the administrator emphasise the MAY though? If the CVA falls, is there another course of action possible? Or, is that it? Dead and buried?

Thanks. That answers the question. It's not % of creditors, but % of claims, of which HMRC own around 25%. Could us signing Scott Fox then tip the balance and send them under? For reasons explained earlier. Hmmm.

I read in the Metro today that HMRC own just under 25% of Dundee’s debt, and that 75% of Dundee’s creditors need to agree the CVA. Note the difference. An update on the STV website today said the creditors have now allowed the CVA to continue to the vote, on the 28th apparently, but said that HMRC own MORE than 25% of the debt. The football debt reduces any time released players sign for another club. 10 were released and 3 remain unsigned. The more that sign, the more HMRC’s share of the debt increases, I assume. Maybe that’s why it’s now quoted as being above the 25%. The question is, do 75% of the creditors need to agree, or creditors owning 75% of the debt? That’s a crucial difference, and I don’t know the answer. Could it therefore be AGAINST Dundee’s interests to get more released players signed off? Does selling the likes of Harkins and Griffiths affect this, or is it in their interests not to, aside from any on field considerations? HMRC clearly want an example made of them, but it would seem that all other creditors would allow the CVA, which would certainly be more than 75% of the creditors, but not of the debt. I did think it was the number of creditors that counted, but the Metro article implied that the percentage of the debt mattered, saying that only a small number of creditors would need to join the HMRC in objecting, to get that level above 25%. If it's already above 25% then maybe other creditors are no longer needed for the HMRC to get their way. Maybe the journalist didn't get his facts correct, but if he's right, and HMRC do now own more than 25%, then it's could be curtains for Dundee FC. So complex, and we thought this was the beautiful game. Does that make sense? Did I get anything wrong there? Does anybody have any answers?

I hate everything about him, especially when he opens his ugly mug to speak. That apart, did anybody hear the Inverness rep on bbc radio tonight? He met with Doncaster today. Did I detect a move towards possible support of the proposals? Apologies for the shouting block capitals about to come... Also, Doncaster categorically said that the 12 were against a bigger league. THE TWELVE. That is, ALL 12. Minutes later the St Mirren rep said that they favour a bigger league and always have. Yet.....they're part of the 6 club steering group? Huh? I don't get this. Who formed that mini league anyway, and on what basis? They didn't ask the others. Anyway, there you have it. DONCASTER IS A LIAR and we can't trust anything he says, or proposes, yet he's leading this charge towards oblivion.

I was once away from home, down under, and had been for a while. I was a wee bit homesick at one point then Baker Street came on the radio. It never sounded better. I never looked back. R.I.P. Gerry.

Well summarised. You speak for me too there.

That would be sickening. If they were allowed to hold on to them long term, in addition to the time they've kept them already, that would be salt in the wound. All the while they gain and don't pay for their crimes. B*ssas.

I was about to raise a new topic titled THAT FUD DONCASTER but this will do. I've just been listening to more of his keech, most of which does not make sense, but once in a while he's honest, like 5 minutes ago when he plainly stated that effectively all that matters is 4 Old Firm games as well as 4 Hibs v Hearts games. That's it. The big ugly tail that wags the dog that Scottish football has become. Listening to him talk about slicing an imaginary cake into thinner slices, then looking at his ugly mug, makes me realise that he knows and cares much more about cakes than our football. What gets me especially is how he refuses to even consider other options. If this is not voted for then nothing happens at all. The status quo is close financially to a 10/10 so why could more monet not be spread around the lower leagues with the existing structure? No way says Neil Doomcaster. He makes vague hints and promises about tv deals, and says that staying where we are or expanding does not work, then says finance should not control things. His arguments are full of holes and contradictions but he has his agenda and is not moving from it. He's infuriating to listen to. Right now, it's obvious that the league is NOT going to expand, that he has talked the likes of Walter Smithers out of it, but he suggested strongly that a team in the middle of the 1st division would stand to earn about £350k compared to about £70k as of now, so, guess what? I doubt it will happen but now I'd accept it, if these figures could be trusted, and I doubt that even more. I certainly don't trust that tw*t. We've been promised a brighter future by our management. Are they basing that upon these suggestions? Hmmm, I wonder.

I don't trust that administrator. He should force the sale of any saleable asset. I find it interesting that a junior player turned down a move to Rangers and/or Celtic. Should that have been allowed? Makes me suspicious. The administrator is acting like a fan. If I was a creditor I wouldn't be pleased but it looks like it's one rule for Dundee and another for the rest of us. At least we got Scott Fox out of it, hopefully for the long term.

Shooting is still woeful. Are they practicing at training? Raith are a well organised side so a draw no disgrace, but once upon a time I would not have looked on a home draw against them as a decent result. We're not maximising our home games but we have creeped gradualy up that table since the disastrous start. There is hope, but we need a scorer. Please...

Where are Clyde and Airdrie? Infinity and beyond?