exiledjag

From a working perspective an office environment provides a social context which is extremely valuable for mental health purposes as well as psychological perspectives. Being able to interact with people on a face to face, individual or team context is good for a number of reasons, for example, feeling involved and valued, being part of something even participating in office gossip and social occasions and events! A big problem for organisations and management in being convinced about working at home is how to organise, monitor and control work and how to ensure time is utilised effectively - in short, trust!

I accepted the meaningless games argument as well for dwindling crowds but now I am more inclined to think the reasons were more complicated and that this was only one of a number of reasons. Bigger leagues do allow a bigger comfort zone for middle size clubs like Killie, Dunfermline, Falkirk and The Jags. In the bigger leagues there is more scope to nurture young talent that that afforded by the smaller leagues. For all their weaknesses, and their is no one perfect solution, bigger eagues aren't as boring as smaller leagues! Let's be honest whereas the lower leagues can generally be competitive the SPL (like the English PL) is not competitive at the top end! In Scotland clubs are playing for 3rd place, while in the EPL they are playing for 3rd/4th place! Both leagues are competitive at the bottonm end! No for all their weaknesses it's bigger leagues for me!

It never has been the most important thing!

Maybe someday those in football will listen to the fans. Football is the only entertainment industry that doesn't pay any attention to its customers and then wonders why more people don't attend games! We suffer from too many clubs and small leagues that don't work! I have stated a preference for 3 Leagues of 14 but I would really like to return to a first division of 18 teams (playing 34 games a season). In addition Gate money to be split between the teams 50/50 or 55/45 after expenses are deducted (stewards, police etc). Rangers and Celtic have not prospered by keeping their gate money. Neither is anywhere near winning or reaching a European Final. Under the above arrangement all clubs will find their footballing and financial level in time. Clubs like Killie, Hibs, St Johnstone and hopefully eventually The Jags will earn more from a 45/50% split of gate money from one away game at Celtic and Rangers than under the present system of 4 home games. If Rangers (once they are financially stable) and Celtic don't like it tell them to go and play somewhere else! We all did better in a bigger league. Celtic, Rangers, Kilmarnock, Dunfermline, Dundee, and to a lesser extent the Edinburgh Clubs all did better in Europe under the old 18 team League and distribution of gate money arrangements!

Agree with you! Although fans are contributing to the The Jags financially, I am glad we were reported as debt free at the start of this lockdown! Championship Clubs that started the lockdown already in debt will be in trouble if the prize money they received runs out!

Agree. I think though asking for the sky is an opening gambit. I don't think the people who run Livingston are stupid enough to think they can get it all! And as far as the drawbridge is concerned 1 club up and 1 down would I think be what most SPL Clubs would want and only because they know they won't get away with no relegation. If the SPL increases to 14 as a permanent change sometime in the future relegation and promotion should be an automatic 2 down and up (or 1 down and up automatically with the second spot being decided by a play-off 13th in SPL v 2nd in Championship).

I see Livingston are in favour of a change to a 14 team SPL. Think they are really pushing the boat out as they also want: - the change to be permanent - 2 SPL Clubs automatically relegated spots (13th & 14th) with 2 Championship Clubs automatically promoted. - SPL Club in 12th to play-off with Championship Club in 3rd for final SPL spot. There are other points affecting Leagues 1 & 2 and also about extending the pyramid system into the national leagues! Be surprised if this gains any support from SPL Clubs. I could be cynical and say Livingston are playing cute here and preparing the ground to vote against reconstruction without appearing to be the 'bad' club! Ask for the impossible then take the huff when they don't get it and vote no! Accusing everyone else for not being progressive!

In our own interest - like everyone else has done on this occasion.

On a roll today - that's the centenary fund contribution taken care of as well. Now just need to decide what to do with gate money for away games I can't travel to or choose not to attend!

That's it done my first ever season ticket purchased! Feels great having my very own seat at Firhill - mine, mine mine. Bring on the mighty Peterhead!

Works fairly well for something called democracy! You might not like the outcome but it has to be accepted by those who vote as it produces an outcome arrived at freely, that is without coercion and bullying. Also removes post- ballot argy-bargy! The trick of course is that the vote is 'secret' and administered and counted by an independent, reliable and respected body!

We are paying a CEO £388k a year! Surely anyone being paid at that level is clever enough to "fix" a vote! In fact I would have hoped that would have been one of the first questions asked by the SPFL Board of all the candidates at their interview! I have a good and quite novel idea for future votes. I have heard of something called a secret ballot! Seems an individual, say a club Chairman or CEO could vote without anyone knowing how he/she voted. It can even be done by post and online by sending your vote to a limited access address which is only opened after the closing date for voting! No more counting of votes as they are received and no more phoning round to canvass for votes. Independent Review of SPFL might suggest this!

To quote you again having already recorded I agree with you especially about long-term change to leagues! Budge has said specifically the job of the Task Force (TF) is to come up with a temporary solution for the current situation and to right the wrongs that have been done (to Partick and Stranraer) and will be done to Hearts if SPL vote to end season. She also says if the TF tries to resolve the issue that have been talked about for the past 10 years they'll get no where. I agree with her. From our perspective hopefully Budge can get a deal that will keep us in the championship. That will buy us at least a season to improve and do better. When whatever temporary arrangement ends we must make sure we are no lower than 5/6th in the table and preferably challenging for the league title! Once this is all over then we can as 42 clubs look at fundamental change to the league structure. Two divisions of 16 would be interesting (tongue in cheek)

I totally agree with you. We do need a complete overhaul of the leagues. The 12 & 10 club leagues are a nonsense! However we need to focus on the immediate need. Budge, Cormack, Morris in (Inverness) perhaps Rangers and some others appear to either believe or now accept relegating clubs in the current context is fundamentally unfair and wrong. The question is are there enough who feel like this to help Hearts, Stranraer and ourselves if and when it comes to a vote. Personally I would like to think there will be but if I am being honest - we'll be in League 1 next season. We already know Cameron (Ayr) is not going to vote our way and who can trust Dundee?

See that Cormack (Aberdeen) will support restructuring SPL to 14 Clubs for one or two seasons. Thinks its the 'fairest' way to move forward! I'll go with that assuming we will still be in the Championship!

Great work BBs Will make an order once brochure available

For your information the subject of attending away matches is discussed in some depth in the 'what if they end the season' thread. Perhaps better focusing related comments there. You make a number of interesting point especiay identifying a list if matches/teams we may wish to avoid. I am coming around to the view that once we know which league we are playing in we might be better opening a specific thread on this subject. This would be the best way of pulling the different views together, forming lists, coordinating action etc.

For your information the subject of attending away matches is discussed in some depth in the "what if they end the season ' thread! You might consider adding Ayr to your list given the comments made by their chairman in a local newspaper interview the other day "we shouldn't be restructuring the leagues to appease clubs like Hearts and Partick Thistle". Forfar might be a good addition as well. The other element to consider is keeping the Jags in a strong financial position not only to build a strong playing squad but also to keep non-playing staff in jobs. A way of doing this is by donating the gate money you would have spent attending an away game to the club. That is what I intend to do!

And Ayr 7-0 in the League Cup Final

Missed a dot - thanks BowenBoys

I wrote to him before membership of the steering group was announced. I doubt he will be able to reply even if he wanted to. I doubt as member of the steering group he will be able to promote his fair to relegate us unfair on Ayr to promote ICT argument as it is totally flawed!

https://wwwbbc.co.uk/sport/football/52311090 Article by Tom English, BBC sport in which he lays into the SPFL ( Chairman & Chief Exc) and especially Dundee. Talks a lot about the injustice inflicted on us. Really demolishes the credibility of all of the above

"to appease the likes of Hearts and Partick Thistle" "would consider promoting Inverness grossly unfair" I have written to Ayr Chairman Lachlan Cameron asking him why relegating Partick Thistle (2 points behind with a game in hand) is fair when at the same time he considers promoting ICT (who share play-off places with Ayr and Dundee) as "grossly unfair"! I have also pointed out to him that the proposal is for a TEMPORARY reconstruction of the league to HELP and not to APPEASE clubs like Hearts and Partick Thistle! I await his answer but I am not holding my breath! Cameron is probably pissed off with us because we took his manager and a player from him. I also suspect he knows Kerr (McCall replacement) will never deliver promotion. Just some sweet revenge for him. Another club which falls into the definitely not going to this away game category unless we are sweeping away all before us - in which case I will go and gloat - gate money will be worth it!

No need to get personal! In respect of point 3 you may well be surprised to know this was not my idea but it is one I support as it has been suggested by a number of posters on this thread already. Think of it as an investment for the future. Didn't we help Hearts a few years ago when they were in dire financial trouble by letting them keep the gate money from their fans when they visited Firhill so that they could pay players wages! Jump forward to today and ask yourself - who is in there batting for us - Budge of Hearts! Don't forget we are all jags and all in this together so if my view differs from yours fine. Still no need for personal slanging - just tell me you disagree and I'll respect that. Cheers.

I will be purchasing my first ever season ticket, joining the centenary fund (waiting on club to get back to me on this) & donating gate money for away matches. Will do this for as long as I am financially able! I am determined we will come back and beat this injustice!