West of Scotland

This time last year Caldwell signed Scott McDonald who pretty much saved us single-handedly. Do we have a saviour this year?

Maybe they'll put in a performance like the one against Dundee United.

Seaside League here we come!

I'm sure the team missed his pissing and moaning.

I can imagine Campbell relaxing with a cigar and a whiskey tonight, having thoroughly rumped us yet again.

Absolute howler. I hope I don't read any more pish on this forum about making the promotion play-offs. This season will be a roaring success if we finish 8th.

The tale will be handed down from parent to child, generation to generation, the legend of That One Time We Beat Celtic

Just think of this ... people who weren't even born the last time Thistle beat Celtic are now GREAT-GRANDPARENTS!

For the past forty years Thistle have been a lower leagues team with the occasional burst of overachievement. A more apt question is what do we have that Morton, Falkirk, Dunfermline, Airdrie, etc., don't?

If, and that's an if we manage to stay up this season, and McCall looks to build a team to contend for promotion next year, just how many of the players in red and yellow today will be there? This squad needs razed to the ground. Also, did a Partick Thistle fan shag Shankland's maw? Is that why he prefers sticking it to us when he scores rather than with the United fans?

I love vague pish like this, "in the know" snide comments with no elaboration whatsoever. It's what makes this forum so great. Pull whatever "knowledge" you have out of your arse or keep it there.

I take it by long term capital requirements you mean the things you mentioned in your last post - the bing and the refurbishment of the decrepit Main Stand (and I'd add in the Jackie Husband stand which has had practically f**k all done to improve it since it was built). No one asked questions regarding those last night. If the club is owned by the fans then any improvements to the ground will have to be paid for by money raised by the fans. I would assume that means no refurbishment of the stadium will be happening any time soon unless significant amounts of money are raised. Development of the stadium was not happening under the previous board. Land had been sold off and plans were submitted for a tower block of offices and apartments along with a tiny stand four rows deep. That didn't come to fruition. The stadium has been sitting decaying ever since. If there's any other long term requirements you're meaning, then it's the same thing. The club cannot spend money it does not have. I don't appreciate your "deafening silence" quote as though this is some sort of "us versus them" argument. There's only Partick Thistle fans. Sorry, I might be wrong. There might be "fantasy" and "reality" camps. I encourage you to attend the next working group meeting whenever it is, if you are able, and ask your questions in person. And if you have any suggestions, contribute.

So copying and pasting comments from pieandbovril counts as constructive debate on this website these days? Maybe Partick Thistle is f**ked is this is the level we're at.

Circles, circles, running around in circles, circles

The model hasn't been decided yet. That's what the working group is for.

"We're obviously disappointed to be losing Doc but the fact is Thistle have a bit of money to play with and are going to be using it." Really? It's good to know the Ayr United boss is confident of our finances. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/ayr-united-captain-ross-docherty-21120701

I'm sorry I didn't sit and take a headcount last night. I didn't realise it was going to be crucial to the debate.

You know what is past is prologue, right? Whataboutery provides nothing except hundreds upon hundreds of forum pages of pointless point-scoring and petty one-upmanship. We can't turn the clock back and have the previous board unsell their shares to Colin Weir. The only question is where do we go from here. Form a group which can be trusted to competently run the club which is what Colin Weir wants? Or should we refuse and tell him we as a fanbase are incapable of doing so? Colin Weir can do whatever he wants with what he owns. We know he doesn't want to own the club. I suppose he can sell off the land to Tesco, or just give everything away to someone. Maybe he'll appoint Jacqui Low as Steward-In-Perpetuity of his interests out of spite just because we're all so feckless.

Why should you have a plan? Because you're a fan, and I hope that means you want the club to survive and succeed. You don't want this. Okay ... but please don't claim to speak for the majority of the fans. You don't want this so make a suggestion for an alternative that we, as fans, can get behind. Some of us are willing to listen. Some of us want to consider every option. Some of us apparently just want to react in the negative to everything and do nothing, contribute nothing. Do you have an idea of what should happen next? In my opinion being fan owned is the only option - you know why? Because the majority of the shares and the owner of the ground, Colin Weir, doesn't want to own the club. As I have already written, if you don't like the way the working group is being set up or who is involved, then join now and make your voice heard in a meaningful manner. Not just on internet forums. The working group is asking for people to join RIGHT NOW. You don't like Paul Goodwin and feel he has nothing of substance to offer, then join and convince the other people involved to remove him. Get involved.

Partick Thistle football club will have to be run to at the very least to break even or make a profit, if possible, based upon money generated by the club itself. This, I believe, is how businesses are run. Any money that is generated by pledges - no matter from how many people or how much money - will be extra money that the fans themselves, the people who have provided that money, to be spent on whatever they want. It will be a collective decision. How precisely those decisions will be made is what the working group is there for, to figure out before March. If you want a direct say then join the working group now. Yes, how fan owned clubs in Germany, and in Sweden, and clubs closer to home, is what we should be looking at and learning from. That is what was said last night.

I don't know how I can rephrase this to make it easier to understand: What. Is. The. Alternative?

Lots of complaints, no constructive comments. If this is going to be a disaster then what is the alternative?

I would love to know what those who have nothing to offer but constant negativity propose what happens next. Tell Colin Weir's lawyers that the fans refuse to take ownership of the club? If there was a budget shortfall in the past then that was down to financial mismanagement, by the previous board or the one before it, or the one before that. It doesn't really matter because we're starting with a clean slate now - that is unless Colin Weir has decided not to pay any outstanding bills and will gift the fans a club saddled with debt. I don't know the man but if anyone thinks that is what's going to happen then let us all know. From the moment the club becomes fan owned then it will break even. It simply has to because, as was mentioned last night, banks don't usually extend credit to community owned football clubs. Unless there's other multi-millionaires out there who fancy giving their money away we have to rely on the money the football club can generate. I think some people bumping their gums about where they think the club "should be" will have to have a reality check. We get less than two thousand fans through the gate at home games now, and we're no longer in a league where there are large away supports visiting Firhill. We'll have to determine what that means for a club - what our goals are, what level of player we can afford - that has to live within its means. We have to decide what the money - whatever the amount is - generated by pledges goes towards. Give it to the manager to bring in players? Spend it on youth teams in the hope of bringing some of them up to the first team and sell them for a profit? Upgrade the stadium experience to try and encourage more people to pay at the gate? We'll have to figure it out. We'll have to figure out how to get young fans interested for a start, because almost everyone in attendance last night looked to be in their forties or older. If you're not happy with what you heard last night and have ideas on how to fix what you perceive to be wrong with the proposed model, then get involved. If you think Paul Goodwin is an idiot and a charlatan then don't just sit behind a computer screen complaining or mumble darkly under your breath, crossed-armed. Get involved. If you feel you have experience or knowledge that will help, then get involved. If I had experience of running something other than a bath I would volunteer but I don't feel there's anything I can contribute other than a pledge. Sure, it's a tight timescale but as it was mentioned last night the deadline for handing over the shares was set by Three Black Cats because they didn't want to give the impression that they were taking over and remaining in control of the club any longer than was absolutely necessary. And my god, the absolute outrage that would occur here if there was the suggestion that TBC and Jacqui Low would be in charge any longer than March. There seemed to be some who didn't think there were any fans that could run Partick Thistle. "Amateurs running a professional club." It's pretty depressing to live in a country where people think we can't govern ourselves and can't run our own businesses. For those who don't think anyone involved with the working group are suitable but don't want to get involved themselves, and those who don't want TBC (and the big bad scary Jacqui Low) to continue to hold the shares then state what you think should happen. We're all ears. It's our club and we have to figure it out now. You can't just sit and shake your head any more.