Marketing Your Team

[McKennan]

Pearls before swine ... oh well.

[BermondseyBoy]

Aye, very good. The comments below the second clip sum up the mentality there. I would hate to see that at Firhill.

In relation to the first clip, it's hard to imagine the team getting fired up by 5 guys, 3 wee guys and a dug - 'alright Jackie, alright SiDo, alright Archie', 'Aye, nae bad.'

 

You would hate to see that at firhill? u know what i'd HATE and you should really hate ..for the current stale pish atmosphere at firhill forever more.I want firhill to be a fortress not a creche.I've always said if l win the lottery i'll take over the club and get it run as a proper proper lads club

 

I want firhill to be as nasty as it can be

[Steven H]

You would hate to see that at firhill? u know what i'd HATE and you should really hate ..for the current stale pish atmosphere at firhill forever more.I want firhill to be a fortress not a creche.I've always said if l win the lottery i'll take over the club and get it run as a proper proper lads club

 

I want firhill to be as nasty as it can be

 

yeah that's the future...hooliganism and nastiness . I for one wouldn't bring my kids to support a Club that stood for intimidation so I hope you never win the lottery. Fans create atmosphere and right now our fans are failing in their job...I know, look at what we are seeing on the park blah blah blah. Chicken and egg scenario, do the fans influence the teams performance or is it the teams performance that influences the fans?

[Vom Itorium]

we can't even get people to hit the back wall of the Shed in the right rhythm during the redyella army chant.

Try adding the 'Johnny Lambies'* back into the song and you might find it naturally finds it's rhythm instead of becoming like a runaway train and dying after about three bursts.

 

*I would have said Ian McCalls but some things are best left as they should always be.

[Steven H]

Try adding the 'Johnny Lambies'* back into the song and you might find it naturally finds it's rhythm instead of becoming like a runaway train and dying after about three bursts.

 

*I would have said Ian McCalls but some things are best left as they should always be.

 

yeah I agree, but countin to 2 shouldnae be that hard. At Queens some of us couldnt keep up wi the runaway train so mixed it up wi different songs while others sang the redyalla army bit.

[Craig-W]

St Pauli - "The club seemingly benefiting from its location within one of Hamburg’s more infamous neighbourhoods. The Reeperbahn, known as die sündige Meile or “the sinful mile” due to its proximity to the docks and red-light district. The area was seeing a growing alternative music and clubbing scene. Attendances at the Millerntor-Stadion grew rapidly throughout the decade."

 

Surely the fact that Firhill lies in a part of Glasgow bereft of community - and is basically a bus lane these days - is one of the main problems comparing us to St Pauli. Here in the Wyndford there's easily more Celtic shirts than punters paying into Firhill. How you foster a real sense of community in this slum is beyond me.

 

The youtube footage of the Green Brigade is quite stirring though. Remember the game against Rangers at Ibrox a few years ago? Perhaps if we played all our games surrounded by them in that nasty atmosphere our cameraderie would build. We'd always have something to oppose!

[milhouse]

Celtic now are the choice club of progressive minded people who want something positive out of football.

 

Stopped reading at this point and laughed.

 

You'll find that the MAJORITY of Celtic fans are still obsessed by Irish Republicanism and paranoid delusions of centuries of oppression, even the young, middle-class ones I know all like a chant of "ooh-ah up the RA" after a night-out and proclaim deference to Vatican dictats. Disgraceful. Irish Republicanism is a long discredited ideology anyway, because noone actually wants a unified Ireland anymore, especially not the majority of people now living in peace in Northern Ireland. One of the IRA's great cons was trying to appeal to the left-wing here and elsewhere in the world. Celtic fans are still more than happy to sing songs glorifying this dspicable terrorist organisation.

 

One of the many reasons why it makes you proud to be a Jags fan...

[McKennan]

Stopped reading at this point and laughed.

 

You'll find that the MAJORITY of Celtic fans are still obsessed by Irish Republicanism and paranoid delusions of centuries of oppression, even the young, middle-class ones I know all like a chant of "ooh-ah up the RA" after a night-out and proclaim deference to Vatican dictats. Disgraceful. Irish Republicanism is a long discredited ideology anyway, because noone actually wants a unified Ireland anymore, especially not the majority of people now living in peace in Northern Ireland. One of the IRA's great cons was trying to appeal to the left-wing here and elsewhere in the world. Celtic fans are still more than happy to sing songs glorifying this dspicable terrorist organisation.

 

One of the many reasons why it makes you proud to be a Jags fan...

 

Where have you been for the past 300 years, you fecking idiot? :lol: Just for your information, the IRA split around about 1970 because of a desire of its then 'official' leadership to appeal to the left wing vote. Out of that came a 'provisional' army council leadership and the Provisional IRA.

 

Neither republicanism nor nationalism are spent forces in Irish politics today. You smugly decry Celtic fans for their 'Up The RA' routines but, by god, you've just dug yourself a hell of a hole.

 

Stay on topic will you, you clown. Stop hijacking my bloody thread. Jesus wept.

[mrD]

Well this is a good discussion!

 

Lambie, i know what you are saying. I don't actually think there is completely a direct causal relationship between relativly small leftist groups being involved with celtic and the perception that is now dominant in my view that celtic are the club to be into if one is progressive. But that was my fault for writing an incomplete account of my analyis because, if the truth be told, i shouldbe working on an essay for uni. So here is a breif outline of the rest and lets see if this makes my case any stronger... wish i could write more but this would be detrimental to my life chances if i was to spend to much time on this.

 

Another crucial element is the actions of the club itself. During the mcann era there has been a gentrification of the support facilitated in part by the shift from pay at the gate to season ticket all seater stadia. This process has also meant that the more unsavoury element of the celtic support (ie the jungle ppl) have had to either conform to a new order of a prescribed song sheet/behavioural dictats or being excluded financially or being excluded through being banned. This corresponded (accidentally) with the peace process in ireland which has seen the respectability of parties like sinn fein rising.

 

What has effectivly happened then is the marketting within the club have managed to incorporate this notion the club of the oppressed but without the harmful images of rabid repubican sentiments. Occasionally they fail to manage this well (eg debacle over protests over rememberance day) but on the whole they've done well.

 

They've also managed to make very public their efforts to combat sectarianism.

 

All the above elements from the previously referred to bottom up small lefty stuff to the top down stuff has contributed culminately to this image of celtic being the progressive club.

 

of course its all bullshit, all historical narritves are like that - one could easily come up with a narritve about celtic being this reactionary club for catholics founded by a marist brother. That one did the rounds when it was adventagious to do so - now the narrative of it being an immigrants club open to all works in the market place.

 

Creating a history that is useful to one is a good start in creating an identity that is so important underlined well in winds posts.

 

Nietzche is the guy we should be checking out about where to go

 

ill say more about other points raised tommorrow but thats me out for tonight..

Edited September 29, 2010 by mrD

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

F**K RIGHT OFF!

 

Apologies, but this thread has really made me angry.

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special. That is what makes us the real underdogs (or "rebels" if you like the glamour of that word) in this great city. And that, I beleive, is the irreplaceable value that we must cherish and promote.

 

I've been following the Jags since I was 8. A neighbour took me to my first game because I enjoyed playing football. I did not agree to go based on my political stance. The neighbour did not offer on account of my religion. I wasn't quizzed about which school I went to, though I did get a bit of a ribbing when it was found out.

 

Almost thirty years later, only one thing would be sure to stop my continued support. Some f**k-wit or group of f**k-wits attempt to hi-jack my team for political ends, exploit people's religious beleifs to curry favour or present Partick Thistle as a haven for any one social or cultural grouping to the exclusion of others for the financial benfit of the institution, the benefit of their own personal ideals or for any other reason. For then, with much sadness and regret that I didn't do more to stop it, I'M OFF! It'd be time for "F.C. Partick Thistle of Maryhill" to be born.

 

To say Partick Thistle cannot be a-political is to ally oneself to the fundamental problem with the old firm. If you ain't one thing, you must be the other. And if you insist you aint the other, you still aint one of "us" and you are not welcome here.

 

Maybe there has been some dillution of the ancient disgusting bigotry at parkhead and ibrox. That, in my opinion is just another example of their "love-hate" relationship. After a hundred years of courting sectarian prejudice and hatred to fill the coffers, both now realise there is a market in trying to make the world believe "We are the friendliest club!". Watch their chairmen squirm, trying to re-negotiate history when asked to condemn a song that is being sung by a "minority" of their support, knowing fine well they can't just "say no" to politics. It always makes me laugh when rangers fans sing "There's not a team like the Glasgow rangers..." Aye there f**kin is! Not a million miles away and with an exclusive support that is every bit as intolerant and full of hate. (Boys of the old) "Green Brigade" = "The Blue (no reference to the orange)Order", (honest!). Sibling rivalry, whether founded in politics, religion or cultural view is a very sad and devisive, but absolutely profitable thing.

 

Walking through the turnstiles we join in one agenda, LONG LIVE THE JAGS! Regardless of who might be in government, which church is "the people", an absolute mixing of the races, or Zenu the transglactic warlord taking over the planet.

 

Branding Thistle a "community club" embracing life-style enhancing initiatives, and delivering genuine, mutual benefits to both the team and support is our most likely way to a prosperous future. It can be done with or without benevolent creditors or selfless, rich fanatics. It must be done with an open invitation to all who contribute to communities' well-being.

 

Not to try and tap into the Byres Road/West End money would be crazy but to say Maryhill is a wasteland of a community is bullshit. Has Commuity Central Halls shut down? Is the Murano street student accomodation empty? Is Queens cross housing association not doing well? I know some of the pubs and other business have closed but there is life in the area. There is plenty of potential customers if we can show the club has value.

 

I don't under-estimate the unique challenge for support we have sharing a city with the old firm, but my experience is that there is still a wealth of affection for the jags. Hopefully, community projects and partnerships will turn fond sentiment into passionate appreciation.

 

Innovate don't immitate!!!

 

The true renegades always walk alone!

 

OI! TEACHER! LEAVE US JAGS ALONE!!!!

 

F.T.O.F. and St.Pauli.

Edited September 29, 2010 by ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz

[Steven H]

F**K RIGHT OFF!

 

Apologies, but this thread has really made me angry.

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special. That is what makes us the real underdogs (or "rebels" if you like the glamour of that word) in this great city. And that, I beleive, is the irreplaceable value that we must cherish and promote.

 

I've been following the Jags since I was 8. A neighbour took me to my first game because I enjoyed playing football. I did not agree to go based on my political stance. The neighbour did not offer on account of my religion. I wasn't quizzed about which school I went to, though I did get a bit of a ribbing when it was found out.

 

Almost thirty years later, only one thing would be sure to stop my continued support. Some f**k-wit or group of f**k-wits attempt to hi-jack my team for political ends, exploit people's religious beleifs to curry favour or present Partick Thistle as a haven for any one social or cultural grouping to the exclusion of others for the financial benfit of the institution, the benefit of their own personal ideals or for any other reason. For then, with much sadness and regret that I didn't do more to stop it, I'M OFF! It'd be time for "F.C. Partick Thistle of Maryhill" to be born.

 

To say Partick Thistle cannot be a-political is to ally oneself to the fundamental problem with the old firm. If you ain't one thing, you must be the other. And if you insist you aint the other, you still aint one of "us" and you are not welcome here.

 

Maybe there has been some dillution of the ancient disgusting bigotry at parkhead and ibrox. That, in my opinion is just another example of their "love-hate" relationship. After a hundred years of courting sectarian prejudice and hatred to fill the coffers, both now realise there is a market in trying to make the world believe "We are the friendliest club!". Watch their chairmen squirm, trying to re-negotiate history when asked to condemn a song that is being sung by a "minority" of their support, knowing fine well they can't just "say no" to politics. It always makes me laugh when rangers fans sing "There's not a team like the Glasgow rangers..." Aye there f**kin is! Not a million miles away and with an exclusive support that is every bit as abhorent and full of hate. (Boys of the old) "Green Brigade" = "The Blue (no reference to the orange)Order", (honest!). Sibling rivalry, whether founded in politics, religion or cultural view is a very sad and devisive, but absolutely profitable thing.

 

Walking through the turnstiles we join in one agenda, LONG LIVE THE JAGS! Regardless of who might be in government, which church is "the people", an absolute mixing of the races, or Zenu the transglactic warlord taking over the planet.

 

Branding Thistle a "community club" embracing life-style enhancing initiatives, and delivering genuine, mutual benefits to both the team and support is our most likely way to a prosperous future. It can be done with or without benevolent creditors or selfless, rich fanatics. It must be done with an open invitation to all who contribute to communities' well-being.

 

Not to try and tap into the Byres Road/West End money would be crazy but to say Maryhill is a wasteland of a community is bullshit. Has Commuity Central Halls shut down? Is the Murano street student accomodation empty? Is Queens cross housing association not doing well? I know some of the pubs and other business have closed but there is life in the area. There is plenty of potential customers if we can show the club has value.

 

I don't under-estimate the unique challenge for support we have sharing a city with the old firm, but my experience is that there is still a wealth of affection for the jags. Hopefully, community projects and partnerships will turn fond sentiment into passionate appreciation.

 

Innovate don't immitate!!!

 

The true renegades always walk alone!

 

OI! TEACHER! LEAVE US JAGS ALONE!!!!

 

F.T.O.F. and St.Pauli.

 

Great post, and one which should end the debate imo.

[McKennan]

Branding Thistle a "community club" embracing life-style enhancing initiatives, and delivering genuine, mutual benefits to both the team and support is our most likely way to a prosperous future. It can be done with or without benevolent creditors or selfless, rich fanatics. It must be done with an open invitation to all who contribute to communities' well-being.

 

Not to try and tap into the Byres Road/West End money would be crazy but to say Maryhill is a wasteland of a community is bullshit. Has Commuity Central Halls shut down? Is the Murano street student accomodation empty? Is Queens cross housing association not doing well? I know some of the pubs and other business have closed but there is life in the area. There is plenty of potential customers if we can show the club has value.

 

I don't under-estimate the unique challenge for support we have sharing a city with the old firm, but my experience is that there is still a wealth of affection for the jags. Hopefully, community projects and partnerships will turn fond sentiment into passionate appreciation.

 

Innovate don't immitate!!!

 

 

Nicely done, but is there harm in learning from another small club's successes?

[McKennan]

Great post, and one which should end the debate imo.

 

The debate hasn't really started. We've had a ranting match about Celtic, which is what I feared and hoped to avoid.

[mrD]

The debate hasn't really started. We've had a ranting match about Celtic, which is what I feared and hoped to avoid.

 

hope that wasn't addressed at me meckennan since apart from perhaps my first post i don't think there has been a ranting tone to what i have said. If people can't discuss the sucesses and failures of teams we share a rivarly too in order to gain an insight into challenges that affect us then we are ****** from the get up.

Edited September 29, 2010 by mrD

[McKennan]

No D, it wasn't.

[ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz]

Nicely done, but is there harm in learning from another small club's successes?

 

... nope.

[mrD]

Forgot st pauli/celtic route.I want to be a mini millwall we could do with a siege mentality tough atmosphere and the sense of camaraderie and loyalty against the world that breeds

Bus welcome v bus welcome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3KDon1T8qE

 

 

I know which one i'd rather have anyday,GB are mugs

 

I'm probably going to get shot down for this and its not a good idea to fight a war on two fronts but eff it..

 

My english team (owing to family connections) are millwall and i particularly love that seige mentality. I personally would much rather have taht kind of atmosphere than fake ultra atmosphere. Many people i have spoken to from back in the day have told me that football was a much more exiting thing to go to when there was a bit of a bite in the atmosphere.

 

 

Whenever football casual culture is mentioned it often gets a smacked down with a vitriolic fury bordering on the hysterical. Fact of the matter is that this was a big part of terrace culture and people involved in that scene were often some of the most committed and involved fans out there. Go down to any club in england and see what its like amongst the fan groups the fan zines etc and i bet you will see a proportion of well dressed lads right at teh centre of it all.

 

Now that is not to embrace thuggery, but at the same time, one should not embrace a moral panic that grew out of the thatcher discourse that was against anything football related and tied into a general attack on teh working class whether materially or culturally.

 

But as has been demonstrated by responses here (which i am not equating with moral panic) football has to cater to many people with many differing tastes. Going to football with ones kids in a menacing atmosphere is ludicrous. But to have a family friendly aspect should not be traded off with a sanitisation of the atmosphere which is a hugely important part of going to football.

 

A simple immediate solution to deal wiht those issues in firhill as it stands just now is to switch the shed section with the kids zone. That means the ones that want a good bit of banter with opposing fans are nearbye and the kids are away from the words that may come forth from the opposing fans taht might make em want to cry...

Edited September 29, 2010 by mrD

[mrD]

No D, it wasn't.

 

cool haha i had put a lot of thought into those posts and was like grrr..

 

i only went into the celtic thing to give reasons as to why i believe we cannot define ourselves as the progressive anti sectarian club. How i tied it in with stpauli is because they are seen as teh progressive club par excellence. I prefer livorno as far as lefty clubs go cause they are old school stalinists...

[MerryHell]

I think it's a bit harder for clubs in our postition to 're-invent' or 're-brand' as, whether we believe it or not, we are one of the bigger (or higher profile) clubs in Scotland. Most people, in Glasgow anyway, older than me (30) know of us/have been to see us/knows someone whos 'thistle mad'. I'm sure in many of your works you get asked how the 'harry-wraggs' got on at the weekend or if you are going to see 'partick-thistle-nil'. People all over scotland know of us through population migration (is that the posh name for movin hoose?)- a Thistle strip would be positivly identified from Stornoway to Berwick.

I don't know much about St.Pauli and reading the article hasn't really answered many of the questions I have, but I wonder just how far down the divisions they were before rebranding - I imagine it to be much easier to rebrand from the bottom of the pile than from a position like ours. Look at Livi, Gretna, Ross County, ICT, Airdrie - i'm not saying they've all been succesful but they have essentially started with a clean slate either through moving to SFL or starting again via administration/relocation etc. They at least started with momentum - which is the hardest thing to find in the whole process.

I'd suggest a good start would be to go along to the Jags Trust meeting next week and contribute. We need a decent input from the supporters to the daily workings at our club, from there, in tandem with a winning team, we can start to attract more fans, harness the real humour, comedy and fun amongst our support, get more people hooked and involved and it can snowball from there.

If people feel they can/are making a difference, they will make the effort.

[mrD]

F**K RIGHT OFF!

 

Apologies, but this thread has really made me angry.

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special. That is what makes us the real underdogs (or "rebels" if you like the glamour of that word) in this great city. And that, I beleive, is the irreplaceable value that we must cherish and promote.

 

I've been following the Jags since I was 8. A neighbour took me to my first game because I enjoyed playing football. I did not agree to go based on my political stance. The neighbour did not offer on account of my religion. I wasn't quizzed about which school I went to, though I did get a bit of a ribbing when it was found out.

 

Almost thirty years later, only one thing would be sure to stop my continued support. Some f**k-wit or group of f**k-wits attempt to hi-jack my team for political ends, exploit people's religious beleifs to curry favour or present Partick Thistle as a haven for any one social or cultural grouping to the exclusion of others for the financial benfit of the institution, the benefit of their own personal ideals or for any other reason. For then, with much sadness and regret that I didn't do more to stop it, I'M OFF! It'd be time for "F.C. Partick Thistle of Maryhill" to be born.

 

To say Partick Thistle cannot be a-political is to ally oneself to the fundamental problem with the old firm. If you ain't one thing, you must be the other. And if you insist you aint the other, you still aint one of "us" and you are not welcome here.

 

Maybe there has been some dillution of the ancient disgusting bigotry at parkhead and ibrox. That, in my opinion is just another example of their "love-hate" relationship. After a hundred years of courting sectarian prejudice and hatred to fill the coffers, both now realise there is a market in trying to make the world believe "We are the friendliest club!". Watch their chairmen squirm, trying to re-negotiate history when asked to condemn a song that is being sung by a "minority" of their support, knowing fine well they can't just "say no" to politics. It always makes me laugh when rangers fans sing "There's not a team like the Glasgow rangers..." Aye there f**kin is! Not a million miles away and with an exclusive support that is every bit as intolerant and full of hate. (Boys of the old) "Green Brigade" = "The Blue (no reference to the orange)Order", (honest!). Sibling rivalry, whether founded in politics, religion or cultural view is a very sad and devisive, but absolutely profitable thing.

 

Walking through the turnstiles we join in one agenda, LONG LIVE THE JAGS! Regardless of who might be in government, which church is "the people", an absolute mixing of the races, or Zenu the transglactic warlord taking over the planet.

 

Branding Thistle a "community club" embracing life-style enhancing initiatives, and delivering genuine, mutual benefits to both the team and support is our most likely way to a prosperous future. It can be done with or without benevolent creditors or selfless, rich fanatics. It must be done with an open invitation to all who contribute to communities' well-being.

 

Not to try and tap into the Byres Road/West End money would be crazy but to say Maryhill is a wasteland of a community is bullshit. Has Commuity Central Halls shut down? Is the Murano street student accomodation empty? Is Queens cross housing association not doing well? I know some of the pubs and other business have closed but there is life in the area. There is plenty of potential customers if we can show the club has value.

 

I don't under-estimate the unique challenge for support we have sharing a city with the old firm, but my experience is that there is still a wealth of affection for the jags. Hopefully, community projects and partnerships will turn fond sentiment into passionate appreciation.

 

Innovate don't immitate!!!

 

The true renegades always walk alone!

 

OI! TEACHER! LEAVE US JAGS ALONE!!!!

 

F.T.O.F. and St.Pauli.

 

First of all chewingum, thanks for your thoughts.

 

I think you have misread my attempt to explain transformations that has happened with celtic in recent years with the corresponding impact it has on our natural market as the anti sectarian club with me putting forward an argument about what we should do. For all that i like to pontificate about things this is something that i have no idea of what can be done for our situation within this context (although bermondsey's idea sounds like fun )

 

I don't think anybody has the right to define what a club means to other people. For instance, if i was a rangers supporter i would definately not be into someone defining me as a loyalist just cause there is a section of my support that does identify with that. Same with catholicism or republicanism or whatever.

 

However, if people within a base of poeple decide that they are into poltics and formulate some kind of narrative about the clubs traditions tieing in it then fair play to them (although i draw the line with facism that should be opposed wherever it rears its ugly head). As long as they dont try to impose that idenity onto the rest then its something i can coexist with.

 

To turn apolitical as a stance in a positive sense of the word, that is to say, you cant be into politics is a poltical standpoint and im sure you know that

 

Anyway, I guess the reason why the question arose of st pauli is simply down to the fact that they went from crowds of 2000 to capacity in less than 20 years. That is surely going to make some of us think and some of us salivate.

 

Some of us are happy with us being a club perpetually declining - others look around and wish that those empty stands are filled. Im one of the latter, and to be so i dont think equates with being a glory hunter.

 

I said earlier on that i dont know what we should do or where we should go. But i do know this, i agree completely that community projects are the way forward for us anybody who knows who i am here will vouch for how much i am about this stuff.

 

However, that is not us innovating. football clubs doing community projects is old hat, its only in the last couple of years that we have seen a change from doing nothing to doing a lot, hopefully this will continue.

 

I think you misread about what i was saying about where the club was situated. - I most defiantely do not equate maryhill as a waste of a community. where did you get that from? The arguments i have made is not to exclude students but to make that inclusiveness wider by having a concessions policy that does not have a deserving poor/underserving poor dichotomy. I argue that for its own sake because it is the right thing to do but it also makes economic sense. I go to games with my student card - i couldnt go to games with my UB40 - that fiver less makes a big difference. When ive got my student card the club gets money, when i dont it doesnt. In a recession and rising unemployment surely having an inclusive ticketing policy makes sense. This isnt just my silly thoughts the principal of graded ticketing pricing policy is one of the arguments that the football task force report stated some years back.

Edited September 29, 2010 by mrD

[mrD]

I think it's a bit harder for clubs in our postition to 're-invent' or 're-brand' as, whether we believe it or not, we are one of the bigger (or higher profile) clubs in Scotland. Most people, in Glasgow anyway, older than me (30) know of us/have been to see us/knows someone whos 'thistle mad'. I'm sure in many of your works you get asked how the 'harry-wraggs' got on at the weekend or if you are going to see 'partick-thistle-nil'. People all over scotland know of us through population migration (is that the posh name for movin hoose?)- a Thistle strip would be positivly identified from Stornoway to Berwick.

I don't know much about St.Pauli and reading the article hasn't really answered many of the questions I have, but I wonder just how far down the divisions they were before rebranding - I imagine it to be much easier to rebrand from the bottom of the pile than from a position like ours. Look at Livi, Gretna, Ross County, ICT, Airdrie - i'm not saying they've all been succesful but they have essentially started with a clean slate either through moving to SFL or starting again via administration/relocation etc. They at least started with momentum - which is the hardest thing to find in the whole process.

I'd suggest a good start would be to go along to the Jags Trust meeting next week and contribute. We need a decent input from the supporters to the daily workings at our club, from there, in tandem with a winning team, we can start to attract more fans, harness the real humour, comedy and fun amongst our support, get more people hooked and involved and it can snowball from there.

If people feel they can/are making a difference, they will make the effort.

 

Really good point. Starting from scratch has many advantages Year Zero and all that! I dont know if its any good any more but the wikipedia article on st pauli used to be good at explaining how it developed

[German Jag]

Although St. Pauli's "rebranding" might be a reason for some of the increase in attendances, the main reason for increased crowds is success on the park meaning promotion. 20 years ago they were in Bundesliga 1 and getting surprise surprise the same size of crowd as they are getting nowadays. Inbetween they've alternated between BL1, BL2 and spent 2004 - 2007 in BL3. There is a big drop in crowds from BL1 to BL2 and an even bigger one to BL3.

 

So the bottom line is there's a lot of good old gloryhunters in there!

Edited September 30, 2010 by German Jag

[B.C.G. JAG]

I don't think anybody has the right to define what a club means to other people. For instance, if i was a rangers supporter i would definately not be into someone defining me as a loyalist just cause there is a section of my support that does identify with that. Same with catholicism or republicanism or whatever.

 

However, if people within a base of poeple decide that they are into poltics and formulate some kind of narrative about the clubs traditions tieing in it then fair play to them (although i draw the line with facism that should be opposed wherever it rears its ugly head). As long as they dont try to impose that idenity onto the rest then its something i can coexist with.

 

There's the thing though, I'm sure a reasonable percentage of Jags fans are so, simply because they could not stand to be associated with the stance taken by a minority of old firm supporters. I know plenty of OF fans, none of whom are even remotely sectarian, but they tolerate the bigotry espoused by some other fans. That's the difference between me and them - I can't co-exist with bigots. And it's a similar unwillingness to co-exist which can explain our lack of politics.

 

In terms of our own political identity, we did perhaps miss the boat to galvanise our position as the alternative club, the Anti-Sectarian club. Whilst I think we as supporters all agree with that broad anti-sectarian statement, it becomes a lot more complicated once you add in Anti-Racist / Anti-Facist ideas. Whilst again most of us would tacitly agree with those ideas, a lot of Thistle fans would have a huge problem with the Far Left aligned groups that would inevitably come on board with those ideas. That's based upon the conversations produced by this and previous forums - people are anti-sectarian, but don't want want to be associated with the baggage that comes with it. A dyed in the wool leftie as I am, I too would baulk at the idea of AFL /AFA stalls outside the JHS every home game.

 

By defining ourselves as A-political, we've also failed to define ourselves as a progressive alternative to the OF. We are more simply, 'the only other place to go'. But when the product on the park is as rubbish as it is now, that isn't much of an alternative to offer.

 

As has been pointed out, Thistle today is hardly embedded in the local community of Wyndford/Ruchill - and we are physically removed from Partick itself. If we rely on our geographical community position to bring in new fans then we're admitting defeat. This is why it's so important to ask the question "Why would anyone choose to become a Partick Thistle fan today?". I've given my reasons, and they suggest we should be looking to a wider, non sectarian community.

 

I mentioned before that shirt sponsorship could be a way ahead for us, and although anti-sectarian charities like Nil By Mouth couldn't possibly afford to sponsor us, I think that would make for a more defining statement on our shirts than an asset management firm does. If we had a position that actually challenged the ordinary, less vocal, less of a bigot OF fan that we all know, taking them on about their 'beliefs', then perhaps we could more rightly claim to be the great alternative that we think we are. But at the moment, even our own fans are looking for something different to do on a Saturday...

Edited September 30, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG

[crazy davie]

F**K RIGHT OFF!

 

Apologies, but this thread has really made me angry.

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special. That is what makes us the real underdogs (or "rebels" if you like the glamour of that word) in this great city. And that, I beleive, is the irreplaceable value that we must cherish and promote.

 

I've been following the Jags since I was 8. A neighbour took me to my first game because I enjoyed playing football. I did not agree to go based on my political stance. The neighbour did not offer on account of my religion. I wasn't quizzed about which school I went to, though I did get a bit of a ribbing when it was found out.

 

Almost thirty years later, only one thing would be sure to stop my continued support. Some f**k-wit or group of f**k-wits attempt to hi-jack my team for political ends, exploit people's religious beleifs to curry favour or present Partick Thistle as a haven for any one social or cultural grouping to the exclusion of others for the financial benfit of the institution, the benefit of their own personal ideals or for any other reason. For then, with much sadness and regret that I didn't do more to stop it, I'M OFF! It'd be time for "F.C. Partick Thistle of Maryhill" to be born.

 

To say Partick Thistle cannot be a-political is to ally oneself to the fundamental problem with the old firm. If you ain't one thing, you must be the other. And if you insist you aint the other, you still aint one of "us" and you are not welcome here.

 

Maybe there has been some dillution of the ancient disgusting bigotry at parkhead and ibrox. That, in my opinion is just another example of their "love-hate" relationship. After a hundred years of courting sectarian prejudice and hatred to fill the coffers, both now realise there is a market in trying to make the world believe "We are the friendliest club!". Watch their chairmen squirm, trying to re-negotiate history when asked to condemn a song that is being sung by a "minority" of their support, knowing fine well they can't just "say no" to politics. It always makes me laugh when rangers fans sing "There's not a team like the Glasgow rangers..." Aye there f**kin is! Not a million miles away and with an exclusive support that is every bit as intolerant and full of hate. (Boys of the old) "Green Brigade" = "The Blue (no reference to the orange)Order", (honest!). Sibling rivalry, whether founded in politics, religion or cultural view is a very sad and devisive, but absolutely profitable thing.

 

Walking through the turnstiles we join in one agenda, LONG LIVE THE JAGS! Regardless of who might be in government, which church is "the people", an absolute mixing of the races, or Zenu the transglactic warlord taking over the planet.

 

Branding Thistle a "community club" embracing life-style enhancing initiatives, and delivering genuine, mutual benefits to both the team and support is our most likely way to a prosperous future. It can be done with or without benevolent creditors or selfless, rich fanatics. It must be done with an open invitation to all who contribute to communities' well-being.

 

Not to try and tap into the Byres Road/West End money would be crazy but to say Maryhill is a wasteland of a community is bullshit. Has Commuity Central Halls shut down? Is the Murano street student accomodation empty? Is Queens cross housing association not doing well? I know some of the pubs and other business have closed but there is life in the area. There is plenty of potential customers if we can show the club has value.

 

I don't under-estimate the unique challenge for support we have sharing a city with the old firm, but my experience is that there is still a wealth of affection for the jags. Hopefully, community projects and partnerships will turn fond sentiment into passionate appreciation.

 

Innovate don't immitate!!!

 

The true renegades always walk alone!

 

OI! TEACHER! LEAVE US JAGS ALONE!!!!

 

F.T.O.F. and St.Pauli.

Absolutely nailed it. Superb post.

[milhouse]

F**K RIGHT OFF!

 

Apologies, but this thread has really made me angry.

 

Partick Thistle is a football club. The only senior, professional football club in Glasgow without any, definite or confirmed, historical or current, institutional association with any one religious, political or social movement or persuasion. That is what makes us special. That is what makes us the real underdogs (or "rebels" if you like the glamour of that word) in this great city. And that, I beleive, is the irreplaceable value that we must cherish and promote.

 

F.T.O.F. and St.Pauli.

 

Precisely. Forget politics and religion, let's enjoy the football. Who cares if you are a socialist/tory voter/nationalist/christian/muslim/asylum seeker/west end luvvie...if you "get" the Jags, then get along to Firhill, enjoy the football and feel safe that there is no political/social/religious agenda for PTFC supporters - just pride in the team.