The Devil's Point Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Magnificent win in Eastleigh last night for the Liberal Democrats. Surely we should now be seen as the only viable party to support going forward. The Tories are a disgrace and I can't be bothered arguing about them here. Yeah we are propping them up in government, I get that, but what were we supposed to do? Lib Dems have delivered stuff like raising the income tax threshold and supporting pensioners rights. This government would be even more elitist, corporate and arrogant without LD input. As for the Labour Party, I think its true that Gordon Brown genuinely re-distributed wealth and that the problem was that the bill was much higher than expected. I think history will treat Brown reasonably well and I also think Blair made tough moral choices and was brave in that respect. For me Liberalism is something on a par with thistleism. Its all about freedom of choice and its just magnificent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 A bit early to be drunk, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Magnificent win in Eastleigh last night for the Liberal Democrats. Surely we should now be seen as the only viable party to support going forward. The Tories are a disgrace and I can't be bothered arguing about them here. Yeah we are propping them up in government, I get that, but what were we supposed to do? Lib Dems have delivered stuff like raising the income tax threshold and supporting pensioners rights. This government would be even more elitist, corporate and arrogant without LD input. As for the Labour Party, I think its true that Gordon Brown genuinely re-distributed wealth and that the problem was that the bill was much higher than expected. I think history will treat Brown reasonably well and I also think Blair made tough moral choices and was brave in that respect. For me Liberalism is something on a par with thistleism. Its all about freedom of choice and its just magnificent Alas true, and I appreciate that your post is well-meaning and not uber partisan. However, the fetid Health & Social care Act, which paves the way for the full Americanisation of the NHS, has only been possible because Cleggy & pals were willing to hoor themselves on it for the sake of getting a say on dead big important issues close to people's hearts such as reform of the Lords and one or two other similar monumental issues of national importance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Alas true, and I appreciate that your post is well-meaning and not uber partisan. However, the fetid Health & Social care Act, which paves the way for the full Americanisation of the NHS, has only been possible because Cleggy & pals were willing to hoor themselves on it for the sake of getting a say on dead big important issues close to people's hearts such as reform of the Lords and one or two other similar monumental issues of national importance. You know as well as I do that this is an inflamatory post designed to start a row. I have no intention of leering at anyone's breasts, asking anyone back to my room or whatever. We have massive political issues coming down the road. I predict that we will see riots in the summer as the "bedroom tax" kicks in and requires people to live on less than the law says they need to live on. There has never been a modern peacetime situation when political engagement was so required. Whether it is creative thinking on economic growth or the the independence debate I keep finding myself thinking the same thing. Which is...... Get off your settee, switch off your telly, get out there and engage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 Fair dos, DP, although I wasn't trying to start a row..........honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I actually think some of the more subtle changes are the worst. In the next couple of months you will see rent paid to the punter rather than the housing association or landlord which is likely to lead to rent arrears and possible homelessness. All benefits paid monthly, and people being paid less than the law says they need live on due to underoccupancy situations people can.q2 Its boring and impossible to explain quickly. I am one of the few who actually understand the system.and feel Labour tried to do all the right things for all the right reasons. Its just that there is so much disability and need out there and no-one can magic that away. Destroy me if you want, I know I'm vulnerable. However I feel Scotland has a very great social liberal tradition indeed and personally I will go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I would be very surprised if the Scottish Liberal Democrats got any votes outside of Orkney and Shetland after selling oput to the T*ries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meister Jag Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) I am a Liberal and a Democrat ok. Never budged an inch on this so you **** off by trying to portray us as tories. It has never been the case. I could be far more insulting about your ignorant views on independence but will rise above it for now. Note to self: Don't bite, just remember that the electorate aren't fools and won't forgive! This is the bunch of opportunists who in the last year or so have trampled on every single policy they once claimed to represent. Having agreed to the tripling of tuition fees and, in England and Wales, abolished state aid for working youth to attend college, the Liberal Democrats are helping oversee the destruction of tens of thousands of public sector jobs and wage cuts - as well as demonstrating a callous indifference to the lives of the sick and elderly with their dismantling and privatising of large sections of the National Health Service, social care whilst removing state benfits from those most in need of help. Horrible bunch of people, IMO of course, who represent the political walking dead. No life about them and no soul. This bi-election victory was hardly a success. Look at the options people had; but fair dos for people sticking to their principles and voting for their historic party of choice. Best of a bad lot? Maybe... I say opportunists as even Clegg himself knows, the origins of the Liberal Democrats lies not so much in the nineteenth century Liberal Party but more in the Social Democratic Party (SDP) of the 1980s. At this time the Liberal Party was pretty much finished as the second major political party in Britain after the Labour Party was formed in 1906. People shouldn't forget that it was a right-wing faction that broke with the Labour Party in 1981 to establish the SDP as an explicitly bourgeois party, hostile to the working class. This bi-election was won in a winnable seat; even with all the troubles the party has faced. You honestly won't find it so easy elsewhere in the country. For a bit of variety I think we need viable opposition parties. However, the Liberals have sold their soul for a seat at the top table and for this they will be resigned to the dustbin of history. For as long as I can remember, they have never really offered anything like opposition. Thought I'd end on an upbeat note there... Feel free to blast away... I'm away out soon so no more from me Edited March 1, 2013 by Meister Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 I am a Liberal and a Democrat ok. Never budged an inch on this so you **** off by trying to portray us as tories. It has never been the case. I could be far more insulting about your ignorant views on independence but will rise above it for now. I dont even know where to start with this car wreck of a post. Ignorant views on independence? Go on, lets hear it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 I think history will treat Brown reasonably Possibly the most inflammatory post I've ever seen on a messageboard - history will judge him to have been an incompetent ****. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Think this post shows why so many people are disillusioned with politics. seems to be more about points scoring and looking after your mates rather than looking after the people they are meant to represent. All the main parties have become caricatures of each other, all fighting for the same space, there is nothing really that different about them. What this country is crying out for is a new political movement which truly represents the people - no elitism, no favourite pet polices. Just do what people want and look after the economy, look after the vulnerable, look after our jobs. None of the parties in either Scotland or the UK come anywhere close to this, they all might say they do, but their words do not match what really happens in real life. Politics has simply become rhetoric and news media focussed. And the public know it. No wonder most folk won't vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Think this post shows why so many people are disillusioned with politics. seems to be more about points scoring and looking after your mates rather than looking after the people they are meant to represent. All the main parties have become caricatures of each other, all fighting for the same space, there is nothing really that different about them. What this country is crying out for is a new political movement which truly represents the people - no elitism, no favourite pet polices. Just do what people want and look after the economy, look after the vulnerable, look after our jobs. None of the parties in either Scotland or the UK come anywhere close to this, they all might say they do, but their words do not match what really happens in real life. Politics has simply become rhetoric and news media focussed. And the public know it. No wonder most folk won't vote. You may well be right. But is it better anywhere else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 A bit early to be drunk, isn't it? Yes. Apologies for this nonsense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 The OP should call himself the Devil's Advocate and take a look at the hard facts. The Lib Dem's share of the vote in Eastleigh dropped from 46.6% to 32.1% (down by nearly a third), a drop of 14.5%. The Tory vote also collapsed by 14% but UKIP's rose from 3.6% to 27.8%. Rather than crowing, the Lib Dems should be worried about losing seats to UKIP in the South West. UKIP does even better in the South West, taking a lot of votes from the Lib Dems, in the Euro elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 IIRC Eastleigh was a Tory stronghold up till the 90s when the incumbent Tory died following a dangerous auto erotic game of some sort, and was found dead tied up, wearing a bra and woman's panties and an orange in his mouth. I remember the media scandal it caused at the time: in those days, former public schoolboy Tory MPs were assumed to get up to this sort of self-amusement with apples in their mouths, not oranges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 ^ You are talking about Stephen Milligan who interviewed me when he was working for The Economist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 the incumbent Tory died following a dangerous auto erotic game of some sort, and was found dead tied up, wearing a bra and woman's panties and an orange in his mouth. I couldn't have put that better mysellf. You need to tell us what you do to be interviewed by such a high flyer now Kni? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDFA Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 Magnificent win in Eastleigh last night for the Liberal Democrats. Surely we should now be seen as the only viable party to support going forward. The Tories are a disgrace and I can't be bothered arguing about them here. Yeah we are propping them up in government, I get that, but what were we supposed to do? Lib Dems have delivered stuff like raising the income tax threshold and supporting pensioners rights. This government would be even more elitist, corporate and arrogant without LD input. As for the Labour Party, I think its true that Gordon Brown genuinely re-distributed wealth and that the problem was that the bill was much higher than expected. I think history will treat Brown reasonably well and I also think Blair made tough moral choices and was brave in that respect. For me Liberalism is something on a par with thistleism. Its all about freedom of choice and its just magnificent The most misguided views I've seen or heard expressed anywhere in some time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 The most misguided views I've seen or heard expressed anywhere in some time... As a democrat I'm prepared to take a kicking. Not sure how I can answer this though. I have gone out of order in some silly comments. I regret that, but was trying to put up some sort of point of view outwith the easily accepted notion that everything the government is doing is wrong. If you have an actual point of view please state it and we can talk about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 2, 2013 Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 You really were buckled last night TDP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2013 You really were buckled last night TDP. I know. I can, and should, do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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