Railway Privitisation (from CBT thread on the Main forum)

[uberteeb]

Railtrack (Network Rail) and East Coast were renationalised by the last Labour Government. Scotland's rail infrastructure is owned by the British Government.

 

Railtrack as a private company failed - Network Rail is now effectively state run and is not for profit. It works better than the private version.

 

National Express East Coast failed - East Coast is run by the state and is making a profit. It works better than the private version. (Although for nonsense ideological reasons the Tories now want to privatise it again).

 

These examples you provide show show clear reasons why the whole network should be taken back under public ownership.

 

Do you honestly expect Scottish taxpayers to subsidise Jags fans to travel by train to Dingwall and Aberdeen? Would you approve of such subsidies for other clubs' fans too?

 

Are you stupid? The whole point of this thread was to discuss providing better public transport (mainly trains) for all football supporters. And yes I do agree with it. I absolutely agree with running public transport for the benefit of the public, in this specific example, football supporters. I would be at Dingwall right now if it wasn't for the fact that if I rock up to the train station today it will cost me £63.10 return.

[kni]

^ Network Rail lost around £400 million last year in the currency markets. It requires several £billion a year more in subsidies than Railtrack did.

[kni]

Sounds like the post-war Deutsche Reichsbahn would be your ideal operator. Could be wrong but I believe that German Railways must be state owned as per the post-war Constitution.

 

Deutsche Bahn's monopoly was protected by legislation introduced by Adolf Hitler's National Socialist Party in 1934. It enabled him to use the railways to transport the Jews to the extermination camps in Germany and Poland. The legislation was repealed by the German Parliament at the end of the last year.

[uberteeb]

^ Network Rail lost around £400 million last year in the currency markets. It requires several £billion a year more in subsidies than Railtrack did.

 

Who would've thought, public services need to be paid for. I'm more than happy to pay more to have less fatal train crashes. You know, the ones that happened when a private company (Railtrack) were putting profit before people and well, killing them.

 

And to save you the bother of a tedious reply about specific incidents, yes deaths can stall happen on the railway but they happen much less frequently when run by the government than they did under the private operator.

 

This could go round in circles, you clearly think privatisation works. No doubt you're voting No in September 2014. Good for you, hardcore neo liberal nutjobs are perfectly entitled to their opinion and I accept they can't be changed. But the more rational among us want an independent Scotland where the concerns of the people will hopefully become higher on the priotiy list than the concerns of shareholders in the City of London.

 

This is the wrong area of the forum for all this anyway.

[kni]

Who would've thought, public services need to be paid for. I'm more than happy to pay more to have less fatal train crashes. You know, the ones that happened when a private company (Railtrack) were putting profit before people and well, killing them.

 

And to save you the bother of a tedious reply about specific incidents, yes deaths can stall happen on the railway but they happen much less frequently when run by the government than they did under the private operator.

 

This could go round in circles, you clearly think privatisation works. No doubt you're voting No in September 2014. Good for you, hardcore neo liberal nutjobs are perfectly entitled to their opinion and I accept they can't be changed. But the more rational among us want an independent Scotland where the concerns of the people will hopefully become higher on the priotiy list than the concerns of shareholders in the City of London.

 

This is the wrong area of the forum for all this anyway.

 

There were several fatal train crashes when BR was nationalised. A close friend was killed in the Polmont crash in the 1980s. The official statistics show that Britain's railways were safer after privatisation.

 

Spain's rail operator, Renfe, is state-owned. 78 died in a crash a couple of weeks ago. Six passengers were killed in a French crash in July.

[kni]

Railway safety statistics, including comparison with other European countries.

 

The table on page 9 shows that of the 10 biggest rail networks in the EU, Britain has the best safety performance.

 

1. Britain

2. Netherlands (franchised passenger services)

3. Sweden (franchised passenger services)

4. Germany

5. Austria

6. France

7. Italy

8. Czech Republic

9. Spain

10. Poland

Edited August 10, 2013 by kni

[JeanieD]

Brian Soutar of Stagecoach is a major funder of the SNP - his Stagecoach Group runs some of the Rail Franchises or is a partner in others (Virgin West Coast for example) - are the SNP seriously going to nationalise the ScotRail Franchise (the process for the next franchise (2015 - 2022 (with possible extension up to 2025) is currently on the cusp of being initiated) - or would they need Mr Soutar's permission first?

 

Mutualisation is a possible solution - incentivise the franchise at all levels but re-invest monies back into the system and forego a dividend - a potential solution, that might, however, be too much like hard work for the politicians.

[Guy Incognito]

you are either to young to remember the railways when they were nationalised or just didn't use them, they were dirty old and late, and that's the best i can say

 

Do you mean they're not now?! I use the train about five days out of seven and I can virtually guarantee that certain services will be late. The trains themselves are often strewn with litter - which, admittedly, is as much the fault of thoughtless fellow passengers as it is the train company - and fares are ridiculously high, and climbing.

 

Do you honestly expect Scottish taxpayers to subsidise Jags fans to travel by train to Dingwall and Aberdeen? Would you approve of such subsidies for other clubs' fans too?

 

I would imagine that the vast majority of those Jags fans travelling to Dingwall and Aberdeen are taxpayers too, so it seems reasonable to me.

 

Brian Soutar of Stagecoach is a major funder of the SNP - his Stagecoach Group runs some of the Rail Franchises or is a partner in others (Virgin West Coast for example) - are the SNP seriously going to nationalise the ScotRail Franchise (the process for the next franchise (2015 - 2022 (with possible extension up to 2025) is currently on the cusp of being initiated) - or would they need Mr Soutar's permission first?

 

Mutualisation is a possible solution - incentivise the franchise at all levels but re-invest monies back into the system and forego a dividend - a potential solution, that might, however, be too much like hard work for the politicians.

 

Is it even in the Scottish government's gift to re-nationalise Scotland's railways? It is my understanding that transport regulation in Scotland is reserved to Westminster.

 

In order to re-nationalise the railways I would have thought that a publicly owned company would have to be formed, which, in turn, would require public funds to set up. Since Holyrood is unable to borrow money or raise its own taxes at present, I am not sure how this would be possible.

 

Seemingly the Scottish transport minister, Keith Brown, is keen for the railways to be re-nationalised in Scotland. Although from the way this article reads, it would appear that he would require more powers to do so.

 

http://www.heraldsco...ilways.19064713

[uberteeb]

Rail fatalities are down since Railtrack was taken under public ownership as Network Rail. East Coast's services are better and profitable under public ownership.

 

As I said, you're clearly a hardcore privatisation-ist, rail privatisation in the UK has failed in terms or service and costs.

[Norgethistle]

 

This could go round in circles, you clearly think privatisation works. No doubt you're voting No in September 2014. Good for you, hardcore neo liberal nutjobs are perfectly entitled to their opinion and I accept they can't be changed. But the more rational among us want an independent Scotland where the concerns of the people will hopefully become higher on the priotiy list than the concerns of shareholders in the City of London.

 

 

So if you are not a communist or socialist you should be voting NO, what about the likes of Brian Souter or Tom Farmer both staunch pushers of the YES vote, are they no longer welcome as they practice capitalism, lets Nationalize everything post independence see how that works, a wee hint think to Glasgow City Council late 80's early 90's with the "Holding Tank" for people that had no job, never would have and they couldn't make redundant, (The biggest card school in Europe) all whilst still employing more, did you ever see the parks department plant a tree up in knightswood??? 3 vans with 9 men for 1 tree.

[Norgethistle]

Rail fatalities are down since Railtrack was taken under public ownership as Network Rail. East Coast's services are better and profitable under public ownership.

 

As I said, you're clearly a hardcore privatisation-ist, rail privatisation in the UK has failed in terms or service and costs.

 

Rail privatization at the time seemed the correct way, as it was losing a fortune was missing investment and upgrading.

It costs what it costs, rail track and network rail are bailed out to the tune of millions (if not billions) a year from the UK Government, take that hand out away and your fares will go up massively and your service will drop further, we aren't really more expensive than europe http://www.seat61.com/uk-europe-train-fares-comparison.html#.UgjugJLI350

[uberteeb]

In what way is how Glasgow City Council planted trees 30 years ago relevant to rail privatisation now?

 

Oh, more good news...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23677173

[kni]

It's the Government who regulates the fares and pockets the cash from real fare increases.

[thomas]

Railtrack as a private company failed - Network Rail is now effectively state run and is not for profit. It works better than the private version.

 

National Express East Coast failed - East Coast is run by the state and is making a profit. It works better than the private version. (Although for nonsense ideological reasons the Tories now want to privatise it again).

 

These examples you provide show show clear reasons why the whole network should be taken back under public ownership.

 

 

 

Are you stupid? The whole point of this thread was to discuss providing better public transport (mainly trains) for all football supporters. And yes I do agree with it. I absolutely agree with running public transport for the benefit of the public, in this specific example, football supporters. I would be at Dingwall right now if it wasn't for the fact that if I rock up to the train station today it will cost me £63.10 return.

 

Buying on the day is always dearer as youre buying either an Open Return, or maybe a Saver Return to these destinations, hence the idea of Advances.....however split tickets are the way, and the rule about changing trains on them are there to be ignored.

 

Return Queen St-Perth £15,70, Return Perth-Dingwall £35.40 - total on the day £51.10 bit cheaper but not as cheap as advances

[thomas]

Split tickets - best stations to buy to are as follows

 

Glasgow - Perth for north to Inverness

Glasgow - Perth, Perth - Dundee (also for heading to Aberdeen)

Glasgow - Inverkeithing if your travelling to Edinburgh and staying over....works out just under £5 cheaper than 2 singles

 

These work as the tickets become day returns instead of open returns

 

Join Loyalty Advance, you get free 1st class upgrades at weekends

[uberteeb]

Split tickets - best stations to buy to are as follows

 

Glasgow - Perth for north to Inverness

Glasgow - Perth, Perth - Dundee (also for heading to Aberdeen)

Glasgow - Inverkeithing if your travelling to Edinburgh and staying over....works out just under £5 cheaper than 2 singles

 

These work as the tickets become day returns instead of open returns

 

Join Loyalty Advance, you get free 1st class upgrades at weekends

 

Good info Thomas, I've mastered split ticketing over the years, it is handy, especially for Dundee trips, but even with splits Dingwall was too rich for me last weekend.

[thomas]

Another split ticket doen the east coast is

 

Edinburgh-Dunbar/Dunbar-Berwick then Berwick-Newcastle

 

Its all about changing the ticket from open return (SOR) to Day Returns(SDR) or Saver Return(SVR)

 

You can get SuperSavers (SSR - england and wales) and SuperOffPeaks (SOP -Scotland), these are not valid before 0915 mon-fri, nor saturdays during july, august and selected dates in december.

 

If anyone wants me to check prices give me a few days-a week or two notice and ill look up the prices, however i cant look up advance as our machines cant do them.

 

Another wee tip if you travel a lot, joing loyalty advance, you get free 1st class upgrade at weekends, and offers during the year, just now its 2 returns for £25 off peak and 1st class sleeper for £99.

 

Not seen or heard about any deals with papers or supermarkets (yet)