Meister Jag

Thought this quote might be of interest to those who have suggested on this thread that Thatcher was the darling of the loyalist cause: Griffin even closes by saying "We will not see her likes again. Thank God." Some of the other sh*** actually seems to thank her for personally defeating communism (?) but then blames her for immigration and just about every other ill to befall Britain. He even suggests that he personally had bloody knuckles after fighting the reds 'toe-to-toe' in the streets. The reds apparently got the upper hand but Thatcher sorted them out or words similar. Where does this guy get it from and does he love her or loathe her? Fact is that Thatcher's actions possibly extended the conflict and acted as recruiting sergeant for the republican cause. But I guess this thread will die out as the last post plays...

Dear oh dear, oh dear... Poor old Shug. But thanks for the post; all things considered pretty decent. Oh and I had £2.00 on Dunfermline winning 2-0 (Ladbrokes gave me 50-1... they obviously don't know how crap you are)! But I feel your pain and as Jim Morrison said: "Pain is something to carry like a radio... You should stand up for your right to feel your pain!" (Okay, that probably involved drugs; not that I'm suggesting anything!) Next year mate, there's always next year... In terms of last night's game, we weathered a decent first 20-mins from Raith (they looked pretty decent IMO) then looked like we'd take the game. Had a few chances but nothing doing. Agree with comments relating to some of the team (younger boys) being dead on their feet. But time for recovery and then party time on Saturday! Incidentally, the "Alan Archibald Love of My Life" song was the work of genius... New "Oh Maryhill" song also fits in well and heard it being practiced to death on the train on the way home from Airdrie. Pretty sure I've also seen a Facebook video of the erm, choir! Cheers guys, keep 'em coming!!

At least you had a bike! No more from me btw, I'm away to Firhill.

Thanks for posting and for clarifying. Apologies if I didn't quite get your joke and if I've over-reacted. What I said (cut 'n' paste from an earlier post) was: To be honest, I can't see much wrong with any of the above as my rant related to Thatcher's perceived statesmanship. Similar sentiments have been expressed in a few newspaper columns and I again confirm that there was no dancing on graves my side. You'll have gathered I wasn't a fan so was suggesting that she could be quite single or bloody-minded i.e. she would do anything to win. (See my comments about what she did to British industry, the British working class and to British communities; all relevant and all related. Would a true patriot have allowed any of the devastation to happen?) So in my view, and to get to the point, she wasn't a great statesperson and certainly wasn't the great British patriot that some are making out that she was. The last time I checked this is a discussion forum; so I guess all colours of opinion are valid... Wait until Blair dies - I'm filing my comments already and may have to release them from beyond the grave!! Never been called 'touchy' on this forum, you've made my day. I must be doing something right

I don't think that's exactly what he said. Siege Siege 00 posted a lot of stuff that came across badly in translation and expressed a few views that were perhaps culturally different to some on the forum. You tried to crack a sectarian one-liner and it was spotted. Would that be fair to say? No amount of wrong and all that... We all have opinions about Thatcher and you are entitled to yours. I'll even go so far as to say that if I understood why you liked her then I might even respect them. But to stoop to using sectarian songs that you know include the line "you dirty ****** f*****" is way out of order. For the record, I come from a loyalist family - Blacks, Orange and Apprentice Boys; so I do have a feel for this crap. To be honest, I hate it all; both sides; too many lives ruined and a society ruined and divided for no real reason. But with regard to the "dancing on graves comment", if you are a genuine Tory then I can perhaps understand why this upset you so much. I didn't make the comment and think I've been consistent throughout by trying to focus on her relevance and impact on British life - her legacy, her ideology, what she did to this country (you might think for the best) and to the need for national mourning and the £10m cost of her funeral at a time of austerity. To be honest, some decent folk on this forum played devil's advocate and dug you out of a hole. Why not man up and accept that this is a Thistle forum and that there was no need to peddle out loyalist sh***. You could easily have argued for Maggie's legacy from a more informed position. It would take you two seconds to type out an apology. So over to you...

I think the main issue was the fact that this was / is quite a well known sectarian chant so more appropriate to another Glasgow team. I guess there would have been a similar reaction had reference been made to the Brighton bombing. If the person who made the post is a Thatcher fan then so be it; his business. But why not confirm support by providing some hard facts on what she did that was good for the country? This thread afforded such an opportunity and was left open for everyone to comment. But from what you've read you'll be aware that many of us weren't fans and emotions have been running high. In my opinion Admin' made a brave decision to allow this thread to remain open and I guess there was always a risk that it could ignite. However, most posts have simply tried to challenge any notion of a proud legacy by trying to suggest otherwise. No dancing on graves or gloating over the death of a senile old woman. With the onset of her degenerative illness, she had arguably been moribund for years. All subjective and all a matter of opinion.

Good point. To be honest, I'm another who has never pressed the button. Kind of made me think I'd ran out of bull**** to fire back!

Agree totally. As was mentioned in another thread, the forum tends to be self-policing.

Cheers Tommy, great pics. I honestly thought we'd never get that break through goal. But for two to come along almost at once !! Anyone else think their keeper was half reasonable? Played well in past two games against us.

Went to the same school as Ian Brady (should I own up to that?) and used to sit beside Jerry Sadowitz at school (found him quite shy and full of card tricks!). David Livingstone is a relative on my mum's side.

Think we're going from McChuills tomorrow so won't be on CC bus. Might see him there. In terms of the ban, from a message I've received my understanding is that admin' will provide information in due course. In fairness, the forum has been busy of late - big games, Morton trolls etc - so I'm sure the mods / admin will have had had their hands full. In terms of the period and reasons for the ongoing ban, obviously a matter for admin' and I go on record as saying that I've not ventured down that particular road when speaking to Siego via email. Most exchanges have related to the team and the club's history. All good innocent stuff... My reasons for wanting SS 00 back on the forum have been well documented and primarily centre on his love of all things PTFC. As many have said: he's one of us, so it's fitting that we try to look out for a fellow Jags fan!

Superb idea. There used to be a guy that fixed it; but not any more!

Thanks for your post, some interesting points and I’m glad we’ve moved onto tackling the fallacy of the Thatcher legacy. In my view the problem with Thatcher’s ideologically driven direction was the pace in which she shifted from an inflation prone corporatist economy to a more deregulated economy. She arguably exposed British economy to international capital flows and trade fluctuations as many other governments continued to prop up their economies (and in so doing supported and looked after their citizens. In my view, a function of the State and why we elect governments to look after our national interests). But without regulation and government intervention the pace of change was brutal. I think it fair to say that she thought that the markets would self-regulate and provide stability. In time she was of course proved correct, but along the way people suffered… Individuals and communities who shared many of Margaret Thatcher’s core principles and values – those of thrift, hard-work, self-sufficiency, religion, community etc – were simply flattened by economic change. It is one thing to embark on massive institutional change backed by the full force of the nation state, but it is perhaps another not to properly consider the impact it will have on millions. What made sense in a monetarist economic textbook, meant a new culture of despair and dependency that resulted in human tragedy on a grand scale. Yet the upwardly mobile benefited from the spread of property and asset ownership; so for many, especially in the South East of England, life was very good. Not so in less prosperous parts of Britain. Yet there appeared to be two sides of the same coin – those doing quite well and those being badly shafted. If we consider the state brutality, humiliation, cover-up (think we’ll now add Hillsborough to that list), the deliberate attack on lifestyles and sexuality that weren’t the traditional norm then her record begins to look very tarnished indeed. No dancing on graves, just an objective look at the track record of someone who has divided a nation (and clearly still does!) As I’ve said before, the gulf between rich and poor was allowed to grow ever greater during her period of power. As ever, much of her record is not as simple as it appears at first glance. Much has been made of her taking the reins of a Britain that was ungovernable but (perhaps conveniently) I have no recollection of this being the case. Every government has a right to govern and to try to make change. However, what she set about trying to achieve could have been done with more compassion and care. For example, taking on Arthur Scargill is one thing. Taking on millions of working people who share your core values – whether they vote for you or not – is perhaps quite another thing. In this respect I’m talking about ordinary working people who were law abiding and who simply wanted to play their part in wider society. The fact is that she was so ideologically driven, she didn’t care who she hurt in order to achieve her objectives – union smashing de-regulation etc. The levels of devastation she achieved must remain part of the record. Proud working cultures were replaced with worklessness, crime, and desolation and much that remains wrong with Britain can be directly traced back to her premiership. Surely the means must matter as much as the end result? I promised I wouldn't get involved in a lengthy debate so this will be my last post - had a bet with a mate and I apparently owe him three pints for posts I said I wouldn't make. But red rags, or should that be red flags... and all that

If it's what I think it is, the reference isn't missed on me.

Hi CO Think I'm still on a high after the other night; flashbacks, can't sleep, can't get the crowd noise out my head! (I'm actually off on holiday this week so can stay up as late as I want!) Siege sent me a message and I can confirm that he was there (don't think he really ever misses games!) and from what he's said it would appear that he's as excited as the rest of us; and no wonder!! Just now he's doing some research into the club - origins and move to Firhill etc. He's a real Jags man... I'd mentioned that he should pop into the Star and Garter for a chat and to meet the younger guys and I'll see if he'll take me up on the offer. From what he's said, I gather he's been in the pub before. I'm sure the younger S&G guys would make him most welcome. (I drink at the quiet end of the bar with the, erm, older clientele. ) Cheers MJ

Greenton actually raises and interesting point regarding segregation. It would be interesting to see what police advice would be on future fan segregation plans; especially when / if we go up a division. Then again, someone else pointed out that few SPL clubs will bring 2000+ to Firhill, so maybe not a problem most weeks. Another point is that Morton's travelling support was actually pretty impressive and must have almost matched their home gate average (some stato will probably correct me); but it was bigger than the 1500 who attended a recent game at Cappielow (Cowdenbeath?). Their Mr Money Bags, Uncle Dougie, must be scratching his head wondering how he goes about getting them to attend home games. Thistle, on the other hand, need to ensure that as many as possible who came along to support the Jags find their way back to future games. But what a night, what an atmosphere, what a result... YES!

Well said, I've actually quite enjoyed The Man and his blurred outlook on all things Greenock Morton. Greenton is probably just looking for an excuse to join our ranks. Way too sensible and the fact that he now resides in Glasgow pretty much tells you something!

Awww, well done TM that took guts. Not sure what game you were at but I seem to recall that Doolan created a couple of chances.

With apologies Greenton, I was hunting you down on another thread and missed your honest, if not slightly inaccurate, assessment of the game. I feel your pain. It must have been a painful watching experience but take solace in the fact that you were there to watch the best team in the 1st division. The self same team who have played Morton off the park in all other encounters but have often (bar the 2-2 draw) come away empty handed. I actually thought Thistle tried to play some football last night and can't recall your team creating any chances. Not that I'm gloating I personally thought the stewards did their best under difficult circumstances. As far as I'm aware, everyone got in and there was no trouble. All the best for the rest of the season; but please feel free to have a crisis of confidence and to drop a few more points! Cheers MJ

Will proffer profuse apologies and blow kisses etc. Thanks for pointing out my oversight

I'm presuming that yours is a serious question? Anyway, here goes and yes, I was unfortunate enough to be about and working when she came to power... Thatcher came to power in May 1979. In 1973 unemployment was at a record low of 3.4%. In 1979, the UK unemployment rate was 4.7%. Unemployment in the UK reached a record high under the Thatcher government in 1984 with 11.9% of working age people in the UK unemployed. The legacy of high unemployment is being continued by the current Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition who are content to oversee an unemployment rate of 7.8%. Under Thatcher unemployment nearly reached 4 million; so for those out of work things were really great (not!). In terms of privatisation, if you were about you may recall that a great sell off occurred under the Thatcher government from 1979; the likes of British Aerospace, Cable & Wireless, Jaguar, British Telecom, British Steel, British Petroleum, Rolls Royce, British Airways, and utilities such as water and electricity all went up for sale. The state-built and subsidised housing stock was put up for sale and private landlords were allowed to build up massive housing stock portfolios that have crucified the national Housing Benefit budget; basically councils haven’t been funded to build much needed houses so private landlords can dictate high rents. The tax-payer meets the bill for housing costs (including some who are working but can't afford high rents) and private landlords have lined their pockets. Overall, she basically disposed of the nation’s assets, sold the family silver – what we all owned collectively as a nation. In doing this, her mates made a fortune, the average punter in the street f*** all! Prior to Thatcher, all of the services and industries I’ve mentioned were state owned, with wages and prices controlled by a democratically elected government. Alas, no more… Few are actually owned by British owners with those who bought the companies having often moved production and jobs abroad. They owned the factories etc so under a free-market system they got to break them up, sell them up, cash in and make workers unemployed. Would this have happened had they stayed in state ownership? Probably not… Need I go on? The foregoing is only part of her legacy. Oh yeah, and some seriously rich folk got even richer!

... is apparently a great pain remedy!

Also, where is Greenton? Of the Morton fans who visited the forum he seemed the most reasonable and erudite. (I'm presuming he's a bloke; apologies if I got that wrong!) Question I'd like an answer to is: "How can so many people make so little noise?"

Agree totally, but what impressed me was the superb work-ethic and fitness of our team. There was self-belief and the management team must be singled out for special praise. It must have been hard lifting heads after Sunday's mess but there really was only one play-to-win team on the pitch last night. Great performance and they chased and kept going right to the end. (In fairness, Morton weren't too dirty even when they were chasing the game; so fair play to them. A very disappointing but strangely predictable and satisfying performance from a team who let their fans down badly. Like I care...)

Here today, back inside tomorrow... like snaw off a dyke!