Meister Jag

To my mind there has to a credible Scottish Labour - and I don't mean one that's controlled from Millbank. But therein, I think, lies the problem... nae credibility. The SNP have nabbed it all and are now the party that now claims to represent ordinary working people. The people of Scotland, IMO, saw right through blair, Brown etc. I think this is the point Blackpool Jag was making; they f***ed it up and have done nothing to maintain ties with their traditional voters. Roughly 1m Scottish voters gave them a kicking (SNP vote in 2010 was 490k and jumped to 1.4m this election). I accept my figs are a bit rough and don't take into account changes in the size of the electorate. But I agree that there needs to opposition. If the SNP horse the 2016 Holyrood elections then we're effectively a one-party state. Maybe Cameron will sanction air-strikes to effect regime change and cite WMD? (WTF did I just say? We already do a nice line in missiles! One of my neighbours, definitely an SNP supporter because he plays traditional Scottish music (Fran and Anna records) when he's blootered, has been adding manure to his garden; this suggests something more sinister and would surely be of interest to weapons inspectors!).

Agree with what you say about a natural home for this thread. I guess the Mods have allowed it to stay on account of the fan connection; I've seen other threads moved (never dumped!). In terms of the working class issue, you have a point, the WC is not as it once was - say 1950s - 1980s and, as I understand it, the Register General's index of social class suggests that the traditional working class has shrunk. Can't remember the percentage but under 20% rings a bell; so maybe as Thatcher wanted, we all aspirant middle-class! (But maybe one for when this thread is re-homed.) Nevertheless, I see where you're coming from and I think you've set up a nice argument that you could easily win (says he slightly side-stepping the issue!) On your point about career politicians being parachuted into constituencies straight from university, I see where you're coming from and guess only time will tell. For example, will she be shackled by the party machine? If so, no fresh air; only suffocation. Finally, I have no doubt that the SNP had some form of selection process when choosing candidates and can only presume that Mhairi was top of their list. So arguably chosen on merit. It will surely take time for her to navigate her way around the bear pit of Westminster politics and in this respect I wish her well. I seriously never thought I'd post at length about the SNP; there's a first time for everything... and yes, in terms of addressing many issues relevant to the people of Scotland, they have shown that they have their finger on the pulse (your point about pragmatism). Yet I still have many reservations about what they can deliver (again, a matter for the other forum!).

Don't be silly, stay and enjoy the banter! Seriously, we all have opinions, yours is as valid as the next person's; it's just that, sometimes, some of us might try to suggest otherwise. Pretty sure this is a discussion forum; we discuss things. You are perfectly entitled to disagree with anything that I post (most of it is admittedly ill-informed kack and I've been told this on many occasions!).

The sad thing is you're right and it hurts like f*** to admit it! I don't think that the SNP victory was undeserved (far from it) but a lot of people will now be looking to them for answers and leadership. Who else is there? There is no Scottish Labour, the SSP are but a faction, wee Tommy and Solidarity have disappeared (certainly from my ballot paper) and the CP have been split into several factions (not that they were ever very influential anyway!). So I guess the mass party of the working class is now the SNP. Problem is, if they do nothing - and not saying they won't try to make a difference but it will be hard, who can people turn to? The Tories must be chuckling at their good fortune.

I'm all for doing anything to raise attendances and it's refreshing to note that the chairman is trying to do something. We've probably been here before but would a more realistic pricing policy be a start? With some of the shortfall being made up by additional money due to more fans and catering - cost of hiring out space etc. Seems that quite a lot of fans are put off by cost - if you have a season ticket it kind of masks the cost in a strange way (as in you don't factor in your gate money when you leave the house). Oh, and I know the club has tried hard to bring in young fans at no or reduced cost. As for plastic pitches, what do the players think and when will the player's union step in to say that this surface can shorten careers - for all that they are at the top flight in Scotland? Or do the players not mind them? (Someone in a different thread said that recovery times are longer after a game so presumably astro isn't a great surface to play on.) To be honest, Saturday's surface was a shocker and the flow of the game was ruined by stoppages due to injuries etc. Might a change of surface actually put fans off?

Agree with the above and I say this as another long time LP supporter (Old Labour as opposed to the New Labour "project"). New Labour, I think by their own admission, are having to accept that they are paying the heavy price for failing to protect the class who put them into power in many Scottish constituencies and who they've failed to protect. To be honest, they did very little to halt the excesses of Cameron and his cronies when undertaking their brutal Austerity cuts. (With more to come... ) Will the SNP be able to do any better? Early days and given the Tory majority, it will be hard. We will no doubt return to this in the future. But calling someone a "moron" because they set out their position adds nothing to the debate.

But did he wear a "Thistle bunnet, with..." expletives avoided in the interests of avoiding mentioning the east end paramilitaries and their neanderthal mates. Maybe it was the bunnet that did the trick!

No problem with what you say, but I wasn't singling out any player for individual criticism. TBH, even although I was there I couldn't have told you who made the mistake. My level of analysis isn't that good (unless it's a howler right in front of me). But I return to my earlier point that, all in all, it has been a good season.

Strongest team possible please and go for the win, points equate to cash so let's go for it... The goal we lost yesterday was a sickener and a wake-up call; almost as bad as the injury time equaliser in the 3-3 game. When analysed coldly, how many points have we gifted teams by giving away slack goals. I agree that we have a much improved defence but yesterday's was a bad bad goal to lose. In terms of who goes down out of Motherwell and Kilmarnock, for me it's either or; although I'd take either of them in the league over Sevco any day. Don't know why I'm moaning; it's been a good season...

Thanks, a sign of age... where else would i have got that figure from! Cheers

In purely financial terms, does anyone know the difference between finishing 8th or 9th? The figure of £45k rings a bell but I haven't a clue where I got that from. I'm guessing that there will be some kind of enhanced payments on offer in the dressing room for the highest placed finish possible; but guess that (quite rightly) stays in the dressing room. Anyone know the official figs?

To be pedantic... Just been PM'd by a forum member who points out that the 2010 Conservative vote was actually 412,855 and this year it is: 434,097! Think the point my friend, fellow Jags fan so a friend to the end, is making is that there are still quite a few Tories left in Scotland. The SNP vote in 2010 was 491,386; so arguably not much between the Cons and the SNP; but how that has changed, 1.45m is quite a large vote!

Agree totally with all that you say and, TBH, this point wasn't missed on me. Due to first-past-the post (rightly or wrongly) UKIP have little reward for their 4m votes; so have arguably been shafted... in more ways than one! Which, irrespective of personal politics, is slightly bonkers. In a similar vein, it will also be interesting also to see how the Tory vote held up in Scotland. From memory, I'm pretty sure they pulled in 220k or thereabouts last time around; which suggests that there could still be a few out there... but, again, for no reward! Would parliament be a better place with a UKIP presence? Possibly; even if just to disagree with their views (as shared by a sizeable number of Britons); but maybe one for another thread. But as you suggest, first-past-the-post clearly doesn't allow this to happen and provides unrepresentative democracy. Rant over.

Congrats to Mhairi and cheerio to wee Dougie A. Interesting times indeed; but the problem is that there will probably be no one to do a coalition with (latest figs suggesting slender Tory majority). Nice also to see UKIP get a pounding; proves that the average English voter isn't swayed by racist scaremongering.

Agree with the above. I think the last thing we want to see is an exodus of talent for very little return. It really hacks me off to think that, for monetary reasons, we'd take whatever crumbs were thrown in our direction by the likes of Hibs. (Pretty sure someone suggested that they might have their eye on one or two players.)

He was certainly Old Labour; but took great pride in ridding the old LP of anyone who considered themselves to be a Marxist. They laid into the old Marxist (Militant) tendency big time; then look at how quickly Clause IV was changed etc. I was in a different constituency during the purges but the likes of wee Pat did nothing to stop expulsions as they threatened their power-base. Like many of the old school LP, he was scared that the party was being dragged too far to the left. But another story for another thread - Blackpool jag and others could probably add more. Apologies for going off-topic. I seriously wish Mhairi the best of luck in her campaign. It would be nice to see the back of a few of the New Labour big-hitters. This isn't me showing support for the SNP; just stating the obvious... Out of interest, do you still meet the wee man for a glass of sherry up the Castlemilk Labour Club?

Well done that man, nice to hear us get a mention on radio.

I'm down in the basement, my wireless is tuned into Moscow and I'm awaiting instructions. It's not like the old days! I look at the ballot paper, in many ways nice to have the opportunity of universal suffrage, but all I see are diluted neo-liberal promises. But, for once, only once, I think you're right. That wee turd Alexander needs to be bounced into touch and Ms Black is just the candidate to make this happen. (In this respect I'm being serious, even if I do have history with the SNP locally; but that's another story: chapter 8 of my memoir, available in all Bargain Books for £0.10 or £35 for a signed copy from behind the bar in the New Regent! I do 'meet the author' days in the Star before home games. Good looking guy who stands beside the ageing rocker that is is your brother!) Do you still have a Pat Lally statue in your hall? Must be good for hanging your top hat and cape after a hard day keeping the lower orders in check.

You having a go Gaz?

Delighted with yesterday's result although the goal(s) couldn't come fast enough. The longer St Mirren had us at 0-0 they had a chance - lucky goal, dare I say penalty! But panic over, we got the result we deserved. Well done to all, having witnessed and felt the highs and lows, great to see us coming to the end of a season as a team and not just limping to safety.

Been reading this thread with interest. Passions are running high and frustration is beginning to show; but, we surely can't be too despondent. To my mind Killie were one of the most negative - break the game down in midfield - teams I've seen at Firhill in a while (okay St Mirren were equally sh*** but in a more clumsy way). They epitomise all that stinks about the Scottish game. They had no interest in allowing a game of football to develop and the number of fouls committed by their number 4 (sorry don't know his name, but he knew what he was doing) confirms this assertion. Maybe, tactically, this is because teams are working out how to play us. I guess the solution is to try to vary lines of attack; but with a limited squad - numbers and types of player - is this possible? We always knew it was going to be hard; but is our points tally so-far no reasonably good and is the product on show not worthy of at least pass marks?

Another game at Parkhead where Franz may have wanted to showcase himself but failed to make an appearance (I know he was injured). But wasn't there talk (probably on this well-informed forum) of him moving to Celtic if Arsenal stepped in for Virgil van Dijk in the January window (from what I witnessed last night, he's a capable player). Does this maybe explain why he likes Glasgow so much! But seriously, hope the big guy chooses Thistle over easy riches. however, hate to say it, but our loss could be any team who can pay better wages gain. But getting back on topic, Muirhead was pretty solid last night, didn't look off the pace and appeared to be more than capable of playing at this level; so no suggestion of the 'SPFL career over' doom that has featured in past threads and posts. Whatever happens, he's young, still developing and deserves our support.

Yea, and 20,000 of them were Thistle fans. Place was honestly about a third full. Does that make it around the 20,000 mark? Even that seems high TBH. But no way that was a 40k crowd.

Can it get any worse? Hopefully!

In between ranting about last night's game I meant to say that I hope all works out okay for your dog. Cheers.