Tom Hosie

Playing devil's advocate to a degree but would cutting expenditure and hoping that it doesn't lead to a worsening financial position due to reduced prize money, reduced gate receipts/season ticket sales for the preceeding season, reduced sponsorship income etc. not also count as 'speculative' and a 'punt'. There's a clear risk with any strategy. I'm certainly not in a speculate to accumulate camp but equally I'm not keen on slavish austerity cuts at Firhill either.

It would seem likely that the short term future at least of Partick Thistle will be shaped by whatever decision is ultimately taken re tranche 2 of the McClymont investment. The Trustees, largely through The Jags Foundation, are recommending acceptance of it. As per my earlier post, I'm inclined to accept that recommendation not without some concerns that hopefully can be addressed at the open meeting on November 29th. That is should be rejected is a perfectly valid position to take though. I would hope, however, that anyone who chooses to vote against does so ignoring the heat and noise generated in some quarters, but through an informed decision making process. With that in mind it is worth reiterating a few points. There are no assets being sold off. There is no sale of existing shares. There is, however, additional new shares being issued in return for tranche 2. This will dilute the majority shareholding that the PTFC Trust hold in Partick Thistle from 72.6% to 65.3% The Jags Foundation's communication states that there is "no legal or practical difference in governance terms" between a 72.6% shareholding and a 65.3% (personally I'd like some additional clarification on that) There is no tranche three There is no prospect of a further dilution of the PTFC Trust's shareholding in the Club. Should tranche 2 be accepted the Trustees are setting the Club Board the task of running a break even budget over the course of a three year period (sorry for the clumsy layman language) That there is this level of communication and debate, that there is this upcoming open meeting and most importantly, that this will go to a beneficiary (you and me essentially) vote is a sign, whether you think tranche 2 is essential, the root of all evil, or some point in between, that fan ownership at Partick Thistle is working pretty much as how I envisioned it would when it was first mooted way back in 2019. That offers me optimism long term. It's how, IMO, football clubs should be operating. Is it too much to hope for that I don't get a rant back in reply?

The situation currently unfolding at Dumbarton is another compelling argument in support of the fan ownership model. There are unquestionably financial challenges at Dumbarton, just as they are at just about every football club ours very much included. The move to Administration at Dumbarton though is less to do with profligate spending, no matter how often anyone suggests it is simply to support their own argument, and more about unravelling an extremely murky ownership model involving absentee owners, shelf companies and a stadium located in a prime housing area. A fan owned club while not immune to predatory advances from nefarious suitors, is altogether better placed to deal with them. Of course fan ownership isn’t a panacea to the challenges that football clubs face. Personally I see it as protection. A fan base isn’t a homogenous group. It’s diverse in terms of age, gender and, probably most importantly, opinions. But there is no group of people who care more about their football club than its collective fan base. The above doesn’t, of course, make a fan owned club immune from poor decision making. I’d argue that how the first tranche of the McClymont investment was handled and communicated was one such example of poor decision making. Not that it was accepted, but the fact that it wasn’t subject to beneficiary scrutiny and vote. It was a poor visual for the first major undertaking for the Trustees. How the proposed second tranche of the McClymont, and others, investment has been communicated, however, has been the polar opposite and is precisely how these things should be handled. It’s not a ‘done deal’. Repeating that line time and time again doesn’t make it any less of a nonsense. It’s true that the Trustees are recommending that tranche 2 should go ahead but ultimately that is not their decision, nor that of the PTFC Board, to make. It’s a decision for the beneficiaries to make. That’s you if you are any of the following: Season Ticket Holder 71 Club Member Member of The Jags Foundation Member of The Jags Trust That’s how it is supposed to happen. That’s how democracy works in a fan owned football club. As of now I’m inclined to vote for accepting tranche 2 but my final decision will be informed by the meeting on November 29th. The reasons for accepting tranche 2 are compelling, but there are some areas that give me cause for concern. A new owner of a football club, or any organisation, rarely has a clean slate to start from. There are invariably historical issues to be faced. The argument that inherited issues can’t be continually used as a reason for decision making has been well made, actually maybe not ‘well’ made but made all the same. That’s more than true with Partick Thistle. There comes a time when it can’t be the responsibility of those that went before but of those setting and implementing the current agenda. I’d suggest that point would come should the proposed tranche 2 be accepted. If after that, and we are talking massive hypotheticals here, the Club Board don’t meet the targets set by the Trustees or if the Trustees themselves aren’t fulfilling the role you believe that they should be, it’s at that point that you look to redress that through the democratic processes that are available. Again, precisely how it should work in a fan owned football club.

Just on the subject of crowds, while gates aren't as bigger than they were 10+ years ago as some would suggest, they are disproportionately high for a club currently sitting 5th in the Championship. Anecdotally the age demographic appears to be younger than 12/13 season. Certainly the atmosphere is as good as I can recall in my time watching Thistle, including that brilliant season. Again I have no evidence to support this and am happy to be corrected otherwise, but I suspect we are seeing, at least in part, the rewards of the Kids Go Free initiative that was always going to be a slow burner. There was no short to medium term cash benefit to implementing the scheme. Quite the reverse. It would have cost the club gate income. It highlights that there is value in not just looking at the current pounds, shillings and pence figures but taking a longer term view on things. Just a few random thoughts on our crowd figures. No intent to derail the thread from it's inevitable Shitstorm Station destination.

You don't see the irony in you asking someone not to invent figures when you have just done precisely that? Are you really that lacking in self awareness?

What like we are averaging more than 1,000 at the gate than we did the last time we won the Championship?

I see you are continuing to theorise on what people's views are without having anything to support your theory. I can only speak for myself of course, but I suspect I'm no different from most Thistle fans in that I have a great number of views on a great number of subjects relating to Partick Thistle. You should read nothing into me choosing not to share those views on here. Or engage in what passes for reasoned, balanced debate with you. It's an utterly pointless exercise. As a general point any argument loses credibility when it is backed up by statistics that are demonstrably inaccurate. Just as any argument loses credibility through needless repetition. You should take it as given that everyone engaging on this thread has read the statement put out by the Club. There is no need to ask if they have. For the avoidance of doubt there is no need to repeat the same point in every response. Especially when it is unrelated to the point being made. And finally, how an argument is presented can be very important. An argument without randomised capital letters, with basic words spelt correctly just looks more credible and less like, well less like someone incoherently ranting away.

We are not averaging 1,000 more than we were when we last won the Championship. If using stats to support an argument it's best to verify them first. Leaves you open to people potentially wondering what other summations may not stand up to greater scrutiny.

No we aren't.

My goodness, you actually replied to that. It is some form of online tourette's that you've got.

If the Board are now just going to write a letter to TJF as opposed to having them round for beer and sandwiches is that a sign of a cooling in the relationship between the two? For the avoidance of doubt and for the benefit of clarity, I like beer and I like sandwiches (but not tuna - yeuch). I'm not always keen on mail, unless it is a copy of the latest Thistle programme, as it can oftentimes mean bad news.

Yes it does, but won't from next Saturday's onwards. That will list only those currently registered to Partick Thistle. A squad of 26, or 27 if you want to include new Academy graduate Matthew Falconer. A squad of 26/27, which includes 3 goalkeepers, seems perfectly reasonable given that you can list 20 in your matchday squad.

The thing about Chinese whispers is that by the time the whisper has been passed along via several people it bares no relation to what the original message was.

Follow your own advice.

Citation required.

And? Your claim was that the integration of PTWFC was more important than the men's team performnace on the pitch. I've actually highlighted the important bit to help you. No amount of deflection. No amount of deflecting to another point will make that claim any less than bullshit. Continuing to claim it is, is worrying. Jordanhill Jag - Citation Required

You do realise that you have contraindicated yourself in your first sentence. The integration of PTWFC is NOT more important than the performances of the men's team. It is 100% bullshit to claim the above. It's not the Club's stated policy to prioritise the integration of PTWFC over the performances of the men's team. Yet you continue to claim it is, knowing it to be false. Jordanhill Jag - Citation Required.

To reiterate, for the hard of understanding, the integration of PTWFC is NOT more important than the men's team results. Any claim otherwise should be treated as the bullshit it is. Or if you prefer, a lie. Someone with honesty who has made that claim you would hope would accept that is nonsense and acknowledge it for the mindless hyberoble it is. But they'll likely just make unrelated points in an attempt to deflect.

Addresses none of the points I made. Best ignored.

Your responses when shown to be incorrect are remarkably consistent. 'ah but and here's an unrelated point'. What is bullshit is your statement that the integration of PTWFC is more important than the men's teams results. Your statement is bullshit. That's why I took it up with you. You said it. The director who sits on both boards sat on the PTWFC Board prior to sitting on the Main Board. It makes sense surely, even to you, that they report on PTWFC activities among their other duties.

He didn't 'find' Dobie. He had been at Rangers and Hibs, among others, prior to signing for QoS. Strickland. Do you mean Shankland? He didn't 'find' him either. He had been at Queen's Park and Aberdeen, prior to signing for Ayr. Your posts need fact checked.

How I can be polite in responding to this? I can't. This is bullshit. Complete and utter horseshit. Or any other kind of shit that you can think of. Please shut up about stuff you know nothing about. The operation of PTWFC is overseen by a committee/board. I know this as a fact as I sit on it albeit, in the interests of full disclosure, taking a sabbatical at present. The overlap between the PTWFC Board and Main Club Board extends to one individual who I would imagine updates the Main Club Board on anything PTWFC related. PTWFC has no impact on how the men's team perform on the park. Or vice versa It's ludicrous to suggest otherwise Equally as ludicrous is the suggestion that integration of PTWFC is more important than performances of the men's team. It's a notion that you have made up from the dark recesses of your imagination no amount of 'ah, buts' that you troll us with alter that fact. Please, please stop interpreting things to suit your position and presenting them as fact.

There are a whole host of things in my life right now infinitely more important than Partick Thistle Football Club. But, sod it, I clicked on here and feel sufficiently triggered to respond to one point. And to just one point only Partick Thistle WFC has no baring whatsoever on the success, or otherwise, of the Men's team. Anyone who suggests otherwise is either just ignorant of the facts or is peddling an agenda. Or a bit of both. Hey, that's up to them. Whatever gets them through the night, as one wise man once wrote. But sometimes if you say something enough it can become 'fact' simply through repetition. So just in case it does then can I reiterate, if the men's team are good, bad or indifferent PTWFC will have had no baring on that whatsoever. None. Now, if you feel tempted to reply to this please don't bother. I'll unlikely read it. I will almost certainly not be remotely interested. Toodle pip.

It's gutting news from a Thistle perspective, but I'm chuffed that Emma is getting a well deserved chance of full-time football. It's a reflection too on the coaching staff at the Club. Brian and Ross have played a huge part in her development. It's not just Emma either. Abbie Ferguson came on leaps and bounds while on loan. Now on a full-time professional contract at Hibs. Ava Easdon showed maturity beyond her years while on loan with us last season. Signed her first full-time contract elsewhere on the back of that. Players come to Thistle and become better players for that. So, yes, it's gutting that Emma is moving on but there should also be pride in the role Partick Thistle WFC have played in her development. There will be even more pride when the inevitable full Scotland caps follow.