Match Programme

[B.C.G. JAG]

They could have canvassed their membership re McLeish, formulated some sort of consensus opinion on restructure, perhaps also include the result of the recent Supporters Direct poll and go to print on that.

All good ideas and thanks for them.

 

Remember it's everyone's Trust so please don't sit back passively. The people there just now are effectively minding the shop after the Trust rather collapsed in on itself - I don't pretend to have all the ideas or even the energy to lead the Trust forward so I would welcome constructive and supportive ideas whilst we hopefully prepare the way for some inclusive, democratic elections. However, I would very much hope that people who do have constructive ideas come forward with them and don't just wait til then. A couple of posters have taken the opportunity to snipe - that's fine, be critical, god knows I am - but please do so in constructive ways. It's incredibly draining to have to read them and essentially all they do is put more people off trying to build a Supporter's Association we can all be proud of. Personally I think our Club and our community would be better if we had a vibrant, energetic and focused Supporter's Association, but it's going to take the supporter's to make that happen.

[stolenscone]

I would welcome constructive and supportive ideas whilst we hopefully prepare the way for some inclusive, democratic elections.

 

Bob - David Beattie announced a few weeks ago that the football club anticipates a six figure cashflow shortage to get us to the end of this season. Since then, there hasn't been any public statement made on this from the Trust Board.

 

I know some people are of the view that money should be withheld from the club until the board of directors can show a credible plan to stop the rot and trade at break even; other people want to pitch in and do what they can to address this cash shortfall. Either way, people seem to be looking for a bit of leadership.

 

My question is where does the Trust board sit on this issue? Is there a plan to fundraise in support of the club? Is there a plan to fundraise in order to use that pot of money to bargain for a better deal from the club board? Is the plan to continue to sit in silence and wait for the administrators to be called in?

 

The difficulty I have is that whatever my views on this issue, in the absence of any communication from the Trust on what is clearly an important issue for the football club, it's difficult to know whether my views are in alignment with those of the Trust board. How can I support something (or indeed oppose it) if I don't know what it stands for? The result is that the world keeps spinning and what the Trust does or doesn't stand for becomes less and less interesting as people simply get on with their lives.

 

I think that the time for sitting back and taking months to make any decision about anything has long passed. It's getting to the stage where any action from the Trust would probably be welcomed by those who are still interested, whether or not it ultimately proves to be the right decision. If the silence persists, then I suspect that those who don't already consider the Trust to be an irrelevance will soon come round to that idea, which is a very sad thing to say about any supporters' association.

 

I apologise if this comes across as sniping. That is not my intention.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

The one flaw in this type of article is you would have to talk to the members.

 

Not sure about everyone else, but I have not had one piece of communication from the jagstrust, other than the announcements of resignations and people being co-opted.

Sadly, all too true.

 

So if our Club Representative (probably David Beattie) attends meetings on league reconstruction, winter breaks, summer football, friday night matches etc etc he goes armed with only the Board and management opinion.

The majority of us were quick in slating Cowan & Co for not listening to and ignoring the fanbase at large, and imo quite rightly so. That said it's a ridiculous situation that David Beattie and the rest of the Board will only have anecdotal account of fan opinion through the odd e-mail etc over something that would have more than just considerable effect on all supporters.

 

I can understand a certain inertia within the Trust as they go thru yet another transformation. I don't expect mission statements and policy while they are in obvious limbo. But no matter how much current internal upset exists there's one constant, they remain a supporters association. They should act like one.

Edited December 28, 2010 by lady-isobel-barnett

[B.C.G. JAG]

Bob - David Beattie announced a few weeks ago that the football club anticipates a six figure cashflow shortage to get us to the end of this season. Since then, there hasn't been any public statement made on this from the Trust Board.

 

I know some people are of the view that money should be withheld from the club until the board of directors can show a credible plan to stop the rot and trade at break even; other people want to pitch in and do what they can to address this cash shortfall. Either way, people seem to be looking for a bit of leadership.

 

My question is where does the Trust board sit on this issue? Is there a plan to fundraise in support of the club? Is there a plan to fundraise in order to use that pot of money to bargain for a better deal from the club board? Is the plan to continue to sit in silence and wait for the administrators to be called in?

 

The difficulty I have is that whatever my views on this issue, in the absence of any communication from the Trust on what is clearly an important issue for the football club, it's difficult to know whether my views are in alignment with those of the Trust board. How can I support something (or indeed oppose it) if I don't know what it stands for? The result is that the world keeps spinning and what the Trust does or doesn't stand for becomes less and less interesting as people simply get on with their lives.

 

I think that the time for sitting back and taking months to make any decision about anything has long passed. It's getting to the stage where any action from the Trust would probably be welcomed by those who are still interested, whether or not it ultimately proves to be the right decision. If the silence persists, then I suspect that those who don't already consider the Trust to be an irrelevance will soon come round to that idea, which is a very sad thing to say about any supporters' association.

 

I apologise if this comes across as sniping. That is not my intention.

Ok, personally speaking here, but The Trust as it stands has no mandate politically as no-one has faced any kind of democratic test. Therefore it is not in any position to lead 'politically' which on one hand leaves it further weakened in the face of Propco et al until there are elections, but in another way can perhaps focus things more sharply. Personally I think we have to an organisation that fan's fundraising ideas can happen around to directly support the Club, but I appreciate that a statement might be helpful on that front. I've only been around for one meeting, but at that several fundraising ideas were discussed and hopefully we can announce some things soon. I again use this chance to ask people with ideas to come forward and hopefully we can support them, but I also ask that people are a little understanding of the situation we have inherited.

 

The Trust is in a poorly state and it may well have to limp on a bit like that until there has been fresh elections. That's unfortunate in the current predicament. Perhaps all we can do is shore things up til then, but we really to get some money raised! But to repeat something I have said before, I hope everyone supports whatever fundraising initiatives they can no matter where they come from, so long as the proceeds all go to supporting the Club.

[stolenscone]

I don't really want to plummet into yet another, ultimately pointless, thread about what the supporters' trust should or should,kt be doing, so I'll make just this one point: the fact that there has only been one meeting at a critical time for the club is problematic of itself. I don't think that there is a huge outcry over folk being unelected, and if there is little or no action from the Trust between now and next May/June, then the double question will be 1) who will be left to care enough to vote; and 2) will there be a football club left to be a supporters' association of?

 

Sincerely, all the best in your endeavours.

 

David

[Fellow Traveller]

This won't be especially helpful, but the remaining rump of the JTB aren't minding the store or struggling on with a difficult situation they inherited. They created it. They paddled up shit creek just as fast as they could and now that they've got there they don't seem to know what to do.

 

I rejoined the Trust almost two months ago. They were sufficiently well organised to take my money, not sufficiently well organised to contact me in any way whatsoever since then. I wouldn't expect anyone to filter a single penny of financial support for the club through that bunch of clowns. Why would you?

[Steven H]

This won't be especially helpful, but the remaining rump of the JTB aren't minding the store or struggling on with a difficult situation they inherited. They created it. They paddled up shit creek just as fast as they could and now that they've got there they don't seem to know what to do.

 

I rejoined the Trust almost two months ago. They were sufficiently well organised to take my money, not sufficiently well organised to contact me in any way whatsoever since then. I wouldn't expect anyone to filter a single penny of financial support for the club through that bunch of clowns. Why would you?

 

In a nutshell, particularly the bit in bold

 

I for 1 wont be hanging around long enough for elections take place if 1) Change, and dramatic change at that, is not forthcoming in the very near future and 2) Certain people remain on the JTB (whether properly elected or not). I have tried to defend the Trust, have had some big arguements with mates over it and have been made to feel very foolish because of the events of the last couple of months. I am no longer defending the Trust and am very close to, as David put it, seeing the Trust as irrelevant.

 

That said, I can understand the near impossible position the likes of Bob, PD, Donald and Douglas (?) are in because they have only recently been co-opted to plug some holes...but they all knew what they were signing up for and the silence has been deafening.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

All good ideas and thanks for them.

 

Remember it's everyone's Trust so please don't sit back passively. The people there just now are effectively minding the shop after the Trust rather collapsed in on itself - I don't pretend to have all the ideas or even the energy to lead the Trust forward so I would welcome constructive and supportive ideas whilst we hopefully prepare the way for some inclusive, democratic elections. However, I would very much hope that people who do have constructive ideas come forward with them and don't just wait til then. A couple of posters have taken the opportunity to snipe - that's fine, be critical, god knows I am - but please do so in constructive ways. It's incredibly draining to have to read them and essentially all they do is put more people off trying to build a Supporter's Association we can all be proud of. Personally I think our Club and our community would be better if we had a vibrant, energetic and focused Supporter's Association, but it's going to take the supporter's to make that happen.

A lot of points all noted and apologies if either of my previous posts are construed as sniping. Certainly not aimed at you or anyone who's stepped up to the plate recently. They were aimed entirely at those who preceded you and remain on the JT Board.

TBH I didn't really consider my post as containing good ideas. When something of the magnitude of league reconstruction & change of season are being mooted a Supporters Association should be definition have canvassed their membership, advised the PTFC Board of their findings and published the results. That to me isn't ideas, it's just plain basics. Put another way if the Jags Trust isn't interested in its membership's views on something as potentially significant as the McLeish/SPL recommendations just what is it interested in?

[Willjag]

Oh yes, got it pinned up on my wall right now.

 

and for once I am not to blame for the other mistake either......

Had a look at the programme today and spotted that mistake as well. It's your photo Tommy so it must be your fault!

[B.C.G. JAG]

A lot of points all noted and apologies if either of my previous posts are construed as sniping. Certainly not aimed at you or anyone who's stepped up to the plate recently. They were aimed entirely at those who preceded you and remain on the JT Board.

TBH I didn't really consider my post as containing good ideas. When something of the magnitude of league reconstruction & change of season are being mooted a Supporters Association should be definition have canvassed their membership, advised the PTFC Board of their findings and published the results. That to me isn't ideas, it's just plain basics. Put another way if the Jags Trust isn't interested in its membership's views on something as potentially significant as the McLeish/SPL recommendations just what is it interested in?

Sorry, should have been more clear. I don't think you were sniping, I was more suggesting that posts like your own were more helpful than some others in that it seemed a bit more constructive, or at least 'here's what you could/should do' rather than just 'ya boo'. I don't mind taking a bit of flak, but the thing is I don't think it helps the bigger Thistle community when posters take pot shots willy nilly. Who the hell else is gonna want to stand for election?

 

More generally, we are where we are. It's not a very good place to be, but that's where we are. Like a family holiday in Morecambe, it's not the place any of would have chosen to be in ourselves, but now that we're here we'd better try and muddle through as best we can. The majority of the Trust Board recently left. Between them they were a majority vote and in theory could have affected change but it wasn't believed possible even at a time of renewed optimism in the Trust. That makes me shudder and feel genuinely nauseous at the thought of the road ahead. Each left believing the Trust was not the most effective way to support the club, and they may yet be proven right. However, there are about 400 people willing to stump up a tenner to join the Trust and there is of course a sizeable shareholding to think about, so I'm not quite willing to see the only Supporter's Association we have die quite yet. And, more pragmatically, at this financially insecure time, we should keep all our fundraising options open. Others can and should raise whatever monies they can, but if the Trust and it's members can make any kind of dent at all in the shortfall then it's worth keeping the life support machine switched on. Pulling the plug just now aint gonna help anyone.

 

However, from a recent rise in popularity, the Trust is now firmly back to square one. There are new people plugging the holes to keep the ship from going completely under. Some think that's pointless but I think it would be truly woeful if Thistle supporters couldn't actually get it together and form the Trust they want and deserve. We're not going to be the ones to deliver that though. No-one elected us, in fact no-one really stood up, we were perhaps just too stupid, polite or guilt-ridden to say no. But hopefully we can foster some changes that will put the Trust back on track and equally hopefully, the next election will produce a board that has a popular mandate.

 

I certainly hadn't planned on being here and am feeling pretty green about it to be honest, but if we can keep things going and try and bring enough change to make it all a bit more workable again in the future, then it will have been worthwhile. It may be that things like programme pages are a bit unco-ordinated, but in the end I'm pretty sure the world will keep turning regardless. You've got a board of reluctant volunteers mixed with a smattering of old gaurd - it aint going to be a well oiled machine for the next wee while and occasionally the ball will get dropped. As I say, we will hopefully bring some change and nurse the Trust and it's shareholding along until the elections and hopefully (desperately hopefully) try and rally the members to some vital fundraising ...but that is when, at the election, others will need to stand up. I'm only on board til then, for personal reasons I won't digress into. When the elections come up I hope people with ideas and energy come forward and I will do everything I can to facilitate a good debate.

 

However, if WE (and by that I mean the whole Thistle community) want a team to support, then again, please support whatever fundraising ideas you can. And if you want to try and preserve or build our little community, then take an active interest in the Trust elections! And finally, if you want to criticise then do so, but also be constructive. It's depressing enough supporting Thistle.

Edited December 28, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG

[lady-isobel-barnett]

You've got a board of reluctant volunteers mixed with a smattering of old guard - it aint going to be a well oiled machine for the next wee while and occasionally the ball will get dropped.

Appreciate reply, B.C.G. Jag. I've made my point and let's just say my frustration is most certainly not with the "reluctant volunteers"

[erty13]

Does anyone know when was the last time the Jags Trust spoke to the Thistle board.

 

Or has all communication been cut off.

[Vom Itorium]

Says it all that the one regular place for the JT to communicate has become an oversight.

[MerryHell]

I'm sorry if my posts are construed as sniping but just now I couldn't be more frustrated with the JT. I paid up my £20, went along to the meeting, was generally feeling good about the future of the JT and the club and then ... it seemed to fall apart. Now at a point when the club says it needs to get £100,000 in before the end of the season, communication from the JT board to it's members and supporters in general couldn't be worse. To me this is emphasised by the fact that a member of the JT board explains the omition of a JT page in the programme as being caused by a mix up over who was dealing with the content. My post #21 was drawing attention to the fact that one member of the JT board was asking for personal contributions and suggestions from fans at the same time that another member was suggesting that the JT board couldn't collate and pass the relevant info on to Tom for inclusion in the program. My feeling is 'What's the point?'

The club says it needs £100,000 before the end of the season. BCG Jag says that the current JT board are mearly 'minding the shop' and will have to 'limp on a bit like that until there has been fresh elections'. If this is so, these elections will not take place before the end of the season - what use is that?

I'm not just sitting on my ar$e complaining and doing nothing - I'm contributing as much time and energy to the club as I can just now, and await whatever the club board reveals in January before putting my money where my mouth is.

I'm not having a go at BCG Jag but, to his credit, he's one of the only JT board members who communicate with us so I can only really respond to his comments.

If this is sniping then fair enough but it's borne out of sheer frustration, rather than malace or sh!t-stirring.

Edited December 29, 2010 by MerryHell