potty trained Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 God knows a Thistle board love a scaled down model of Firhill to play with their matchbox cars. Over the years we've seen many different plans for the development of Firhill. in my 25 years following Thistle i think i've seen at least 4. Probably the most aspirational was Jim Oliver's four year plan at the beginning of the 90s detailed fantastically on StuTheJag's historical archive... http://partickthistl...Firhill+Article This would include: Main Stand refurbishment: Check. European Standard Floodlights: Check. Undersoil heating: Check. 3 purpose built stands providing 12,000 seats in addition to the Main Stand: half way there. 4 corners of office blocks for lease to the public: No 4 all weather pitches at the North end: No. Basin Development including bridge, wine bars, pubs etc: No. By 93 the recession hit and the plans were being put on hold, office blocks and basin development were scrapped. but the JHS was still going ahead with sean connery and billy connolly buying 2 years season tickets. So, as a club, where would we be now if this dream had come true? god knows i love the picture of the "redeveloped Firhill, it's my screen saver on my work laptop, it's a development to be proud of. But, in the back of my mind, i just see Rugby Park and the Killie hotel and the mass of debt they are in.... At the time, killie and thistle were very similar, playing in the first together, then the SPL... however, Killie have never left the SPL, never been a yoyo club and have had success, certainly a lot more success than thistle in the last 25 years! would we have survived as long as killie if we followed Oliver's dream? what sort of atmosphere would we have had if we got the dream stadium with none of the success? 2000? fans sitting in the JHS in the second division under the bunnet whilst 3 stands and 14000 seats lay empty? But.... just to add an other dimension, this was jim olivers big plan when he took over the club... how did he as a businessman benefit? how many of his companies, friends companies etc were involved in the rebuilding of Firhill and how well paid were they by the club for the work they did? were his pipe dreams just a way for Thistle to line his pockets, a plan that eventually back fired? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 sean connery and billy connolly buying 2 years season tickets. I hope they gave those tickets away so they were actually used! Bet they didn't give any money to the club anyway. It makes me very sad to look at that picture, and see what we could have had. We probably would have gone into administration and bounced back by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 God knows a Thistle board love a scaled down model of Firhill to play with their matchbox cars. Over the years we've seen many different plans for the development of Firhill. in my 25 years following Thistle i think i've seen at least 4. Probably the most aspirational was Jim Oliver's four year plan at the beginning of the 90s detailed fantastically on StuTheJag's historical archive... http://partickthistl...Firhill+Article This would include: Main Stand refurbishment: Check. European Standard Floodlights: Check. Undersoil heating: Check. 3 purpose built stands providing 12,000 seats in addition to the Main Stand: half way there. 4 corners of office blocks for lease to the public: No 4 all weather pitches at the North end: No. Basin Development including bridge, wine bars, pubs etc: No. By 93 the recession hit and the plans were being put on hold, office blocks and basin development were scrapped. but the JHS was still going ahead with sean connery and billy connolly buying 2 years season tickets. So, as a club, where would we be now if this dream had come true? god knows i love the picture of the "redeveloped Firhill, it's my screen saver on my work laptop, it's a development to be proud of. But, in the back of my mind, i just see Rugby Park and the Killie hotel and the mass of debt they are in.... At the time, killie and thistle were very similar, playing in the first together, then the SPL... however, Killie have never left the SPL, never been a yoyo club and have had success, certainly a lot more success than thistle in the last 25 years! would we have survived as long as killie if we followed Oliver's dream? what sort of atmosphere would we have had if we got the dream stadium with none of the success? 2000? fans sitting in the JHS in the second division under the bunnet whilst 3 stands and 14000 seats lay empty? But.... just to add an other dimension, this was jim olivers big plan when he took over the club... how did he as a businessman benefit? how many of his companies, friends companies etc were involved in the rebuilding of Firhill and how well paid were they by the club for the work they did? were his pipe dreams just a way for Thistle to line his pockets, a plan that eventually back fired? I'm pretty sure he lost millions due to his involvement with us. He wrote off a huge chunk of debt we owed him during Save the Jags. If we had developed Firhill the way he'd proposed we'd have been left with a huge white elephant, which is arguably what the Jackie Husband is anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 I'm pretty sure he lost millions due to his involvement with us. He wrote off a huge chunk of debt we owed him during Save the Jags. If we had developed Firhill the way he'd proposed we'd have been left with a huge white elephant, which is arguably what the Jackie Husband is anyway. As i said, it back fired... what can i say, i'm very cynical about directors of football clubs, and how they benefit directly or indirectly from their position. some of the folk who were in the last custodial group were quite clearly at it, using our club like a bloody complimentary social club and alike. all the while the mugs pay their money at the turnstyle. the mugs will always be there. the leaches eventually get burned off. anyway, thats by the by, this is about what could have been.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lambies Lost Doo Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Don't think it is very fair to slander Jim Oliver like that. A Thistle fan who put his time and money into the club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Build it and they will come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Don't think it is very fair to slander Jim Oliver like that. A Thistle fan who put his time and money into the club. Slander? please be serious for a second! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peagreenboy Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 If we had developed Firhill the way he'd proposed we'd have been left with a huge white elephant, which is arguably what the Jackie Husband is anyway. But like every other club we had to go from terracing to seats; we had three choices really - whole new stadium like St Johnstone or later, St Mirren, a grand redevelopment like above, or piecemeal fashion. Is the Jackie Husband a white elephant? It's one of the nicer modern stands in the country, my personal favourite part of Firhill (because I only attended one match before it was opened) ... it's the rest of the stadium that's a mess! Without the ambition shown back then we'd be left with something almost as bad as Cappielow ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 But like every other club we had to go from terracing to seats; we had three choices really - whole new stadium like St Johnstone or later, St Mirren, a grand redevelopment like above, or piecemeal fashion. Is the Jackie Husband a white elephant? It's one of the nicer modern stands in the country, my personal favourite part of Firhill (because I only attended one match before it was opened) ... it's the rest of the stadium that's a mess! Without the ambition shown back then we'd be left with something almost as bad as Cappielow ... The Jackie Husband is a fantastic stand, but it's far too big for our needs and leaves the whole stadium lop-sided. Let's be realistic, we will average around 4000 this year if we are lucky, and that will probably always be so. We have no need for one stand that can hold 6000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Slander? please be serious for a second! Talking about someone using the club to line their own pockets may not be slander, but it's a bit of a pishy thing to say on a public forum when there's absolutely no evidence for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Talking about someone using the club to line their own pockets may not be slander, but it's a bit of a pishy thing to say on a public forum when there's absolutely no evidence for it. don't forget. i am only asking questions. not making a statement. i think its very fair to ask questions/ take for example David Murray. if not for the revelations last year, no one would ever question this knighted businessman... however on closer inspection, it turns out his company made an absolute fortune from the taylor report and the need for steal to build these spanking new stands. again for clarity, i am merely asking the question, i fully admire what he did for the club and the hit he took during STJ's.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) On a messageboard it would be libel - slander is spoken defamation. I must admit I loved Jim's plans for Firhill when they came out - a tad naive of me in retrospect . Compared to some of the rogues we've had on the board I think he's one of the good guys. Edited July 24, 2013 by Charlie Endell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 On a messageboard it would be libel - slander is spoken defamation. I must admit I loved Jim's plans for Firhill when they came out - a tad naive in retrospect . Compared to some of the rogues we've had on the board I think he's one of the good guys. As a landlord, he was anything but. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 jim olivers vision was spot on. it would have been a firhill stadium and complex to be proud of. what he didn't bargain for was recession and the two arse cheeks taking larger shares of the tv and sponsor money, and driving crowds down due to less competition and a even greater uneven playing field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971 Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) don't forget. i am only asking questions. not making a statement. i think its very fair to ask questions/ take for example David Murray. if not for the revelations last year, no one would ever question this knighted businessman... however on closer inspection, it turns out his company made an absolute fortune from the taylor report and the need for steal to build these spanking new stands. again for clarity, i am merely asking the question, i fully admire what he did for the club and the hit he took during STJ's.... Ahh, I see. So you aren't trying to infer, without any evidence, that he took money from the club. How subtle of you, I must have missed it. Edited July 24, 2013 by 1971 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northernsoul Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 The Jackie Husband Stand, capacity wise replaced what was there before. As it should have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted July 24, 2013 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 Ahh, I see. So you aren't trying to infer, without any evidence, that he took money from the club. How subtle of you, I must have missed it. No, again for clarity, i am asking questions, purely as i have started a topic on his pipe dream for the stadium. i say pipe dream, he was quite open about it being a "development opportunity", afterall he was no football fan, ballroom dancing and chess were his main loves. How much was Oliver ACTUALLY owed at the time of STJ's? How much did he buy the club for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordanhill Jag Posted July 24, 2013 Report Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) I have no idea what the Commercial set up was at the time but from what I can gather Ken Bates had a similar vision looking to turn Firhill into a Chelsea Village - Im therefore assuming the existence of the Office Blocks at each Corner and the regenerated Firhill Basin making it the Venice of North Glasgow had a Commercial development aspect to it ,if this increased the value of PTFC then the largest shareholder would see there shareholder value increase- which is exactly what Bates did at Chelsea when he bought it for £1 and Fergus McCann did when he bought Celtic for £5 Million. Making profit from Football is not a bad thing as long as the Club is left in a better position and with stronger assets than it was when the person took over. eg Bates & McCann. Edited July 24, 2013 by Jordanhill Jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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