Woodstock Jag

The Jags Foundation are organising a London get-together during the World Cup for Nomadic Thistle fans in London and the South East of England. We'll be at the Maple Leaf pub in Covent Garden to watch the France v Denmark and Argentina v Mexico games on Saturday 26th November. If you live, or will be in the vicinity of, London that weekend, please do come along and share some good company with fellow Jags fans and hopefully even see some half decent football. To find out more, check out our website https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/london-world-cup-gathering-saturday-26th-november/ Make sure to fill in the link to our form so that, if you want to hear more about events in London and the South of England, you're kept in the loop!

The Jags Foundation are organising a London get-together during the World Cup for Nomadic Thistle fans in London and the South East of England. We'll be at the Maple Leaf pub in Covent Garden to watch the France v Denmark and Argentina v Mexico games on Saturday 26th November. If you live, or will be in the vicinity of, London that weekend, please do come along and share some good company with fellow Jags fans and hopefully even see some half decent football. To find out more, check out our website https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/london-world-cup-gathering-saturday-26th-november/ Make sure to fill in the link to our form so that, if you want to hear more about events in London and the South of England, you're kept in the loop!

Page 22 of the 2020-21 accounts, explaining the basis for the valuation of Firhill as “open market value” i.e. what would someone actually pay for the land and buildings. Page 23 of the 2021-22 accounts, explaining the basis for the valuation of Firhill as “depreciation replacement cost method” i.e. what it would cost to replace the ground with a modern equivalent.

An "in-case-you-missed it" post. Engagement with PTFC Trust Last week we confirmed that there would be a face-to-face meeting with the PTFC Trust in the first week of November. We will seek to update our members based on the outcome of that meeting in due course. Fan ownership developments There isn't really very much to report on this yet (though I imagine there will be some soon). As we indicated in our interview with James Cairney at the start of the month, The Jags Foundation wrote to the Scottish Football Association raising objections to the share transfer. We were advised that the SFA would be considering the matter at its October board meeting. We haven't heard back from the SFA since receiving acknowledgment of our correspondence to them. We chased them for an update yesterday. The PTFC Trust hasn't made any public statements since Tweeting and posting on Facebook about the Morton game on 1st October. The Club hasn't said anything publicly about the fan ownership saga since announcing the share transfer on 20th September. Directors of Three Black Cats haven't said anything since 24th September, when Jacqui Low gave an exclusive interview to the Daily Mail. TJF in the media The Jags Foundation website now has a dedicated "Media" section. It's full of links to print media articles about the fan ownership situation, as well as recent football podcast appearances from TJF board members bringing the Thistle story to a wider audience. I would especially recommend Ian Mackinnon's appearances on The Scottish Football Show in late September and The Price of Football Podcast a few days ago. Sponsorship and Social Activities TJF has, this month, sponsored two of the PTWFC games. There was the Dundee United game a fortnight ago. And tomorrow evening's re-arranged fixture against Motherwell is also sponsored by us. We are also organising a World Cup gathering for London and South East England-based Thistle fans in late November. Members-only communications Earlier this month, our Chair, Sandy Fyfe, attended a panel debate on "who owns football". He reported back his reflections on that debate to members. We are seeking to build the membership package with member-specific content like this. Thistle Pins We now have a dedicated page on the website with up-to-date news on the distribution of Thistle Pins for members who have purchased them. The next Thistle Pin will be announced very soon. We are currently waiting on our manufacturers to confirm completion and despatch. Plenty more to come There's plenty of TJF activity at the moment, and there's definitely more of interest to fans still to come in November. I'd strongly recommend that those who haven't joined already sign-up as a member of the Foundation or at least become a Friend of the Foundation. We are aware that the Club is taking preparatory steps for its AGM and are planning accordingly to ensure that our members' interests are articulated and represented as and when that AGM comes. We are developing a framework for participatory budgeting. This will give members direct influence over how the Foundation funds are used. We hope to bring more concrete information about this soon.

They did some partnership/media gubbins with us about 3 years ago, but I wasn't aware of any ongoing relationship between the Club and Clan. Certainly nothing on the website since late 2019.

Sandy and I had a sit down with James Cairney from The Herald/Glasgow Times last week, and he's published the transcript. Hopefully you can all look past my mixed metaphors and you find the exchanges useful to get a sense of where we are and the way forward. https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020811.jags-foundation-interview-part-proposals-social-media-missing-shares/ (Part 1) https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/23020816.jags-foundation-interview-part-ii-fundraising-sponsors-future/ (Part 2)

THISTLE PINS - INTRODUCING THE HUSBAND PIN! We're delighted to launch the Husband Pin this evening. Read more at the following link: https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/tjf-presents-the-husband-pin/ This is the third in the line of Thistle Pins. If you're a TJF member, you'll be eligible to purchase one as part of this limited run. As before, £10 including P&P with all proceeds to the Foundation. Check your emails for information about when they'll become available to reserve and how to do that. One of the most exciting things about this Pin is that it's based on a photo Jackie Husband's family picked out. The original was in black and white, so we got in touch with a specialist colourist to give it a bit of a touch-up. The end result is pretty phenomenal.

"The club is very satisfied with the outcome". This is becoming a familiar theme for other Clubs when Thistle end up in a tribunal dispute against them.

That was a specific grant. Other support, including furlough, also applied in season 2020-21. Colin Weir set up 3BC and put his money into it. Some of that was in the form of a massive 7 figure soft loan, which the last accounts say will be waived. If it isn’t waived, 3BC goes very abruptly insolvent. I’m straying into the deeper recesses of my memory with this, but as I understand it this money was all set aside and put into 3BC before his death. Not being a revenue generating company, 3BC needed working capital to operate (eg legal fees to Peter Shand’s firm will, I imagine, not have been insignificant). Cashflow, not debt, is what usually kills or severely weakens football clubs. It doesn’t matter if you’ve got several million on the balance sheet in the form of valuation of a dilapidated stadium unless there is the option to borrow against or sell it as part of your business plan. Beyond that the most important thing is how much cash do you have in the bank, how much recurring income can you bank on, and who are your short term creditors (and for how much).

It’s been a while since I last looked at Three Black Cats’ annual accounts (and they don’t illuminate much except for quickly depleting cash reserves and a massive soft loan) but I thought they had sold on the land on which the training ground was supposedly going to be built? The development had already encountered problems with access routes and permissions at planning stage so I doubt it’s a viable location. Longer-term though, unless some serious money is put into making Firhill fit for purpose, the conversation about what to do with it will become an uncomfortable one. Moving outside of Maryhill would, IMO, be terminal for the Club, in much the same way as it has been for Clyde leaving Glasgow. You would immediately lose easily 500 off the normal home gate, and the soul of the Club would wither and die. But there’s not going to be another, more suitable, venue within Glasgow, that costs less to acquire so as to make it worth the hassle leaving Firhill in the first place. We can’t do a St Mirren. I’ve gone back into the 3BC accounts again and this is from Season 2020-21: To the best of my awareness, 3BC has only one subsidiary. PTFC Limited. So when you read the Thistle accounts for that year, bear this in mind. That year PTFC Limited reported a £6k profit, while also in receipt of over £500k in Covid-19 support. Turnover no doubt recovered quite significantly in 2021-22 with a full season, in the second tier, and there will have been the Queen’s Park groundshare money (though also the additional expense fixing the pitch). But bluntly it is not clear that PTFC Ltd will have broken even (or got near to it) in that financial year without some significant non-obvious other support. The ground transfer also took place inside the 2021-22 financial year, so that will be a one off appreciation in assets of almost £2 million, but which will do nothing for cashflow or turnover. So I would recommend that everyone looks very closely at not just the PTFC Limited accounts as and when they are published, but also the 3BC ones.

And to deal with it separately, the flat out lie is this: "Some of the things that have been said and done in the name of TJF, but not necessarily driven by TJF, have been disappointing,' she says, referring to approaches to sponsors. 'There could have been repercussions from that and any responsible entity that was hoping to take on shares would never condone such behaviour." This is a reference to exchanges on this very forum, when some of the Thistle fans on here suggested that people write to sponsors and express their displeasure. The reality of this is that, when the Club withdrew consent to a TJF presence on match-days, Gerry Britton emailed us saying that the Club Board was disappointed that a TJF Board member: "felt inclined to possibly cause financial harm to the Club, through the promotion of potentially damaging communications with vital club sponsors." We were genuinely confused about what this was about at the time and asked for evidence of this. Jacqui Low replied, selectively quoting something that I had said on this forum. You can see for yourself what I actually said right here: The full context here is that I hadn't seen that thread at all, and neither had the other TJF Board members who post on here. When it was drawn to our attention by a concerned individual, who became aware of potentially intimidatory emails having been sent to club sponsors, we at TJF were absolutely mortified. The post above was intended to discourage people from continuing to do that. It wasn't even remotely "condoning" or "encouraging" that course of action. I made this point, directly but politely, to Jacqui Low in an email reply, explaining that she had misrepresented what I had said. I requested that she withdraw the allegation, so that a line could be drawn under it. She has not replied to that email, withdrawn the allegation or apologised. I was willing to let matters lie, given that the decision to exclude us from the stadium was after all overturned after fan pressure. But now that she has repeated the allegation, even with insufficient caveats, I feel it is important that you should all know the truth.

We've read the article (I wouldn't pay for that rag, I have a news aggregator at work). It's full of complete and utter nonsense and includes one segment that is a flat out lie. Just by way of examples: "Three Black Cats decided that the Trust satisfied the priorities held by Weir. These were the safety of the shareholding and the impossibility of selling it to a third party; the understanding of the need for stability at the club; the enthusiasm shown for being representatives of the fans." This is bollocks. "Impossibility of selling it to a third party" It is not "impossible" for the PTFC Trust to sell or gift the shares to a third party. In fact, there is no requirement for any vote of the fans at all in the trust deed or the Club's Articles of Association. This is just completely made-up. The decision about what happens to the 74% shareholding of PTFC Trust rests in the hands of five unelected men. By contrast, TJF has it in its own Articles of Association that any shareholding cannot be disposed of without the consent of the members by a special resolution (75% of those voting). In the negotiations, Three Black Cats expressed concerns that the votes of just a few hundred fans could lead to a share transfer going ahead. We went away, to speak to our lawyers, came up with a proposal to give what are known as "third party rights" to all season-ticket holders, so that somewhere closer to 2000 people would actually get a vote on such a transfer. This was dismissed as having unspecified "practical challenges" "The understanding of the need for stability at the club" It is PTFC Trust, not TJF, who are now suggesting that there doesn't need to be a legally binding Club-Trust agreement, similar to those seen at all other fan-owned clubs. They're the ones only just embarking now on negotiations on a memorandum of understanding, after the shares have been transferred. The PTFC Trust model is completely untested, bears no relation to those at other fan owned clubs. The memorandum and Club-Trust relationship will be picked over for years, assuming they ever actually hold elections and the fans get any real say over what is being done supposedly in their name. By contrast, the TJF model was tried and tested. It was, if anything, a slightly diluted version of what you see at Motherwell and St Mirren. Going for the industry standard, with a clear fundraising model that would have brought, longer-term, six figure annual sums to the Club, would have done more for "stability" than a vehicle and model that raises no money, has no precedent, and which has sown division among the support. "The enthusiasm shown for being representatives of the fans" I'll trust you all to discern that this is pretty much self-discrediting. The PTFC Trust is an organisation that won't hold elections this year, won't be majority elected until May 2024, and won't be wholly elected until at least May 2025. This is a "representative" group that ignores beneficiaries who email them, who reneged on a promise to hold an open meeting in mid-September, who didn't consult or seek the consent of beneficiaries before receiving the shares, who still haven't changed their rules to make all season ticket-holders beneficiaries despite promising it over a month ago. I'll let you judge how that compares against the activity of the TJF Board to engage with the fans, growing a membership organisation by over 75% in the space of less than 4 months.

No. Here is what the PTFC Trust statement says. The most recent management accounts and a cashflow statement for the current season were exactly what we asked for. Peter Shand told us, in June, in no uncertain terms, that we would not get this under any circumstances.

TJF proposed a compromise due diligence/financial disclosure exercise, and were told in no uncertain terms by Peter Shand that it wouldn't happen and was non-negotiable. The PTFC Trust has now claimed, in its self-congratulatory completion statement, that it was permitted to do exactly that exercise, right down to the three key documents we asked to be disclosed. We had even offered for Sandy and Andrew to sign any NDA asked of them, which could even have included prohibiting them saying what those documents were. So there are only two plausible explanations: (a) we were being denied a co-operative due diligence exercise for reasons not actually disclosed to us; or (b) the PTFC Trust hasn't actually done the co-operative due diligence exercise it says it has done.

It's quite impressive how quickly we've arrived at "The Shaggy Defence". And I'm not talking about our former sweeper and assistant manager.

To be clear: PTFC Trust has 74% of the shares in PTFC The Jags Trust has about 7.5% of the shares in PTFC Colin Weir's estate has about 10% of the shares in PTFC Minority shareholders, none having more than 1.5% individually, hold the rest.

Sorry, I meant to post this but I've got a blistering headache and have been trying to sleep it off this morning. The Jags Foundation has made a statement about yesterday's events, and commented on some other important aspects of the PTFC Trust deal. You can read the short summary, and the full statement, at the link below. https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/statement-following-the-transfer-of-shares/

We consider the lack of transparency in this process to indicate conflicts of interest, that mean the transfer should not go ahead. We will be exploring all avenues to discourage or otherwise prevent it. It's blatantly clear we are right that he has access to the Trust Facebook account. But the question is why? Everyone knows who our lawyers are. Because we told everyone about them. And PTFC Trust have mentioned publicly receiving a letter from them about their failure to publish trustee meeting minutes. I have all the advice I need to protect my reputation, but I appreciate your concern.

We are singling out an individual because he is involved in this by his own admission (before he realised the conflict of interest that would entail and changed his story). We are singling him out because it is clear to anyone with functioning eyes that, despite his attempts to conceal it, he is involved. His little social media faux pas this morning confirmed what we all suspected. Stewart MacGregor is on the inside of this deal and he’s not even any good at hiding it. It’s time he owned up about the extent of his involvement. That’s what accountability involves.

Last night Stewart MacGregor wrote a very tantrummy email to The Jags Foundation denying having said what we were told he said. Here it is in full, so you have a measure of the man. We are happy to place that denial prominently on the record. However, we find it very difficult to believe a word Stewart MacGregor says. Because this morning the PTFC Trust Facebook account commented on one of our posts. It was a denial of the information we reported, in the first person, saying that they had emailed us and we’re awaiting a reply. Except of course, none of the trustees have sent us an email. Only Stewart MacGregor has. The PTFC Trust comment was hastily deleted but we have a screengrab. So who are we to believe? The serial liars who can’t get their story straight, and who have falsely denied that Stewart MacGregor’s involvement was simply to bring a group of like-minded people together, or the people who actually heard him reveal details about the imminent transfer? After all, if Stewart MacGregor isn’t a trustee and isn’t involved in the PTFC Trust, why does he have access to their social media accounts?

Urgent statement from The Jags Foundation https://thejagsfoundation.co.uk/urgent-update-on-the-ownership-situation/

The Jags Foundation are sponsoring the PTWFC team's game against Motherwell on Sunday at Petershill Park. I'd strongly urge those who are able to make at along and to cheer on the home side. This is part of The Jags Foundation's long-term commitment to the wider Thistle community. We want to help grow the Women's team's supporter base so that the next generation of women and girls want to chase glory in the red and yellow jerseys. We'll also have the mascot for the game, wee Sophia, who is the granddaughter of two of our members! Fingers crossed for a great day for her and the first three points of the season for Brian Graham's side!

I would echo this very strongly!

There is a very important difference between (a) acknowledging the possibility that the share transfer might go ahead, and planning accordingly, and (b) accepting or tolerating that possibility, should it materialise, without consequence. It is abundantly clear that the TJF position is (a) and not (b) and anyone implying otherwise is wrong. Ultimately there are only four entities, legally, that can prevent the transfer of the shares: (a) Three Black Cats (as the donor) (b) PTFC Trust (as the designated recipient) (c) the Club Board (having a veto over any transfer under the Articles) (d) the Scottish Football Association (their Articles requiring member clubs to secure approval for material changes of ownership) The eagle-eyed among you will notice that none of these four entities are The Jags Foundation. Clearly we will do what is within our power to persuade any one of the above four not to proceed. That includes our efforts to secure transparency about how the deal came about. It includes our efforts to have clarified what the deal actually is. It includes, as we alluded to in our survey, calling for a clear role for the fans to have an informed say over the transfer. It includes our efforts to engage with fans, including non-members, to explain to them why this isn’t fan ownership and why they should oppose it. It includes building a credible alternative vehicle, which raises significant funding and makes it more difficult for the Club Board to ignore. Those who disparage the Pins fail to realise that fundraising capacity is precisely what gives us leverage further down the line. But it wouldn’t be prudent or realistic or credible not to acknowledge that the transfer might go ahead regardless of anything that we do. We should be ready to respond to that situation, especially if it is the most likely outcome. And we shouldn’t do things before that transfer that would weaken our position after it to influence whatever is imposed on us. That is why the organisation needs credibility independently of what happens on the share transfer. Our members recognise this, which is why as you’ll see many of them were asking us questions about what we should do if the deeply suboptimal proposal comes to pass.

Ah but Pittodrie itself has a microclimate about 40 degrees colder than Alberta in ski season.