Bleeding Gums Murphy Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Captain Seabiscuit's comments in tonight's Times. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/sport/partick-thistle/seaborne-we-let-ourselves-down-with-county-collapse-198172n.119039669 Thoughts? Mine for what it's worth- No apology to fans. "One of those things" comment gets me more angry every time I read it. The manager's reaction. Has he got the stomach for the fight or am I looking at it as someone who thinks we should be looking elsewhere for someone to manage the team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljaggo Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 "Disappointed is worse than being angry. We wanted him (Archibald) to scream and shout, but he was just really disappointed. That is an incredibly stupid thing for Seaborne to say. It is also very revealing about Archibald and his relationship with the players and especially his captain. It appears to confirm what many on here suspected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Exact same article that I have just read with The Sun. He fears being dragged into a relegation dogfight!! Here is some news for you Cap'n......WE ARE ALREADY IN THE DOGFIGHT!! Time these guys kept their traps shut and did their talking on the pitch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 As clear an indication that DS has no belief or respect in AA as you'll get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I may be alone here but I thought it was a fair and honest interview. I'm not looking for an apology to make me feel better, I'm looking for the team to work hard and get through this patch, which Seaborne has stated in his interview. I have been critical of the manager in recent days, but I wouldn't use this interview to be even more so. It's a newspaper interview which has been edited. Base your praise/criticism on what happens on the pitch. On the whole a decent assessment from the captain, in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThickAsThieves Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 At least he's not saying we're looking at the teams ahead of us and thinking about top six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusTejero Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 As clear an indication that DS has no belief or respect in AA as you'll get. Utter nonsense. He's saying that Archie's reaction was worse (as in, made the players feel worse about their dreadful performance) than him screaming and shouting. Let's be honest, no matter what the players come out and say you and others like you will use it as fuel for your anti-Archie agenda. Yes, results have been dreadful recently. Yes, the performance on Saturday was an absolute shocker. Yes, legitimate questions can be raised about some of Archie's failing (just as they can of every single manager in the world, by the way). But do we have to constantly look for things that aren't there? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Utter nonsense. He's saying that Archie's reaction was worse (as in, made the players feel worse about their dreadful performance) than him screaming and shouting. Let's be honest, no matter what the players come out and say you and others like you will use it as fuel for your anti-Archie agenda. Yes, results have been dreadful recently. Yes, the performance on Saturday was an absolute shocker. Yes, legitimate questions can be raised about some of Archie's failing (just as they can of every single manager in the world, by the way). But do we have to constantly look for things that aren't there? I don't have "anti-Archie" agenda. I just don't have a self hating "Thistle, are by definition shite" agenda. Look at it how you want but there were a millions thing Seabourne could have said differently. He made a statement about AA's man management and game plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusTejero Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) I don't have "anti-Archie" agenda. I just don't have a self hating "Thistle, are by definition shite" agenda. Look at it how you want but there were a millions thing Seabourne could have said differently. He made a statement about AA's man management and game plan. I don't have a self-hating "Thistle are by definition shite" agenda. What I do have is an acceptance that we are in our second season back in the SPFL and that, historically, we are a club which has spent most of our recent history in the league below. If we survive this year then it will be an achievement. This does not mean that I am happy with our form, or our performance on Saturday, or some of our player's attitudes (e.g. Stevie Lawless, who has shown himself up to be a petulant wee numpty), or some of Archie's team selections, or that I don't think we could have more points on the board than we currently do. What it does mean is that I'm not going to demand the sacking of our most successful manager in years (one who is also a club legend, and yes that does grant him some additional leeway, as to me what he represents is incredibly important for our club), I'm not going to use every opportunity to criticise him, and I'm not going to have a meltdown every time we lose a match. What Seabourne said was uncontroversial and doesn't reflect negatively on Archie in the slightest. Edited February 23, 2015 by JesusTejero 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't have a self-hating "Thistle are by definition shite" agenda. What I do have is an acceptance that we are in our second season back in the SPFL and that, historically, we are a club which has spent most of our recent history in the league below. If we survive this year then it will be an achievement. This does not mean that I am happy with our form, or our performance on Saturday, or some of our player's attitudes (e.g. Stevie Lawless, who has shown himself up to be a petulant wee numpty), or some of Archie's team selections, or that I don't think we could have more points on the board than we currently do. What it does mean is that I'm not going to demand the sacking of our most successful manager in years (one who is also a club legend, and yes that does grant him some additional leeway, as to me what he represents is incredibly important for our club), I'm not going to use every opportunity to criticise him, and I'm not going to have a meltdown every time we lose a match. What Seabourne said was uncontroversial and doesn't reflect negatively on Archie in the slightest. And my point is proven in your 2nd sentence. Thank you. You just said that Thistle are historically a lower league team. Your clear agenda is to be defeatist to try and disparage and present the club in a lowly manner in a bid to take pressure off the manager. It's tiresome and it's won't work. Past history has nothing to do with what the ability of this set of players, in this league. Undoubtedly the best players we've had for a number of years. AA might have us in 9th place but that is a complete underachievement with a set of players that could walk into the teams placed 5th and 6th in the league IMO. If we survive it will be a complete relief all round after what has gone on since January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewarty Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Let's look at the quote in question again: Disappointed is worse than being angry. We wanted him (Archibald) to scream and shout, but he was just really disappointed. You don't like to see the man in charge disappointed. The point being made by Dan is quite clear: the fact that Archie expressed disappointment was worse than if he had simply subjected them to the hairdryer treatment that managers often resort to. How this one comment can be interpreted as disrespectful towards the manager is absolutely beyond me. Ask yourself: if Dan didn't respect or believe in Archie why would the latter's disappointment bother him so much? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusTejero Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 And my point is proven in your 2nd sentence. Thank you. You just said that Thistle are historically a lower league team. Your clear agenda is to be defeatist to try and disparage and present the club in a lowly manner in a bid to take pressure off the manager. It's tiresome and it's won't work. Past history has nothing to do with what the ability of this set of players, in this league. Undoubtedly the best players we've had for a number of years. AA might have us in 9th place but that is a complete underachievement with a set of players that could walk into the teams placed 5th and 6th in the league IMO. If we survive it will be a complete relief all round after what has gone on since January. Your point isn't proven in the slightest. Saying that our recent history is as a First Divsion club isn't defeatist, it's a statement of fact. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be disappointed with how things are currently going, and it doesn't make anyone (players or manager) immune to criticism. What it does mean is that our current failings should be viewed in context, and that actually we are currently doing well relative to our recent history. I am confident that by the end of the season we will have improved our league position from last year. That would represent progress, and that would represent yet another achievement from Archie. Is he the finished article in managerial terms? No. Does he still have weaknesses? Yes. But to sack him now would be a huge mistake, and would be a shameful way to treat someone who has given his all for us for the majority of his career, who has led us to some of the most memorable moments that I have had as a Thistle fan, and who has shown (although it has slipped recently) that he can get us playing some incredible football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjptfc Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Your point isn't proven in the slightest. Saying that our recent history is as a First Divsion club isn't defeatist, it's a statement of fact. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be disappointed with how things are currently going, and it doesn't make anyone (players or manager) immune to criticism. What it does mean is that our current failings should be viewed in context, and that actually we are currently doing well relative to our recent history. I am confident that by the end of the season we will have improved our league position from last year. That would represent progress, and that would represent yet another achievement from Archie. Is he the finished article in managerial terms? No. Does he still have weaknesses? Yes. But to sack him now would be a huge mistake, and would be a shameful way to treat someone who has given his all for us for the majority of his career, who has led us to some of the most memorable moments that I have had as a Thistle fan, and who has shown (although it has slipped recently) that he can get us playing some incredible football. Some good points made Jesus, and many I agree with. However, as much as I'm desperate for Archie to succeed, sentiment can get you relegated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JesusTejero Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some good points made Jesus, and many I agree with. However, as much as I'm desperate for Archie to succeed, sentiment can get you relegated. I've probably worded that badly. I don't want him to stay because of sentiment, I want him to stay because I think that he has shown himself to be a more than capable manager and has achieved some fantastic things for our club, thereby proving his ability. He has made mistakes but so does every manager- I have absolute faith that he will continue to improve in the years ahead, provided we allow him to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindau Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 The one thing central to all this are the players. If they put their head down and battle we will be fine. On the other hand if the horse has bolted and the relationship between the players and manager is beyond repair, there will only be one outcome. No matter what anyone thinks of Archie, the players (bar Galls and LT) were an utter disgrace on Saturday. The more I watch that third goal........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChewinGumMacaroonBaaaz Posted February 23, 2015 Report Share Posted February 23, 2015 What was Lambie's best finish with us in the top flight? How did Gerry colins get on with his agressive dressing room manner and animated touch-line style? Steve McLaren was named "the wally with the brolly" for his calm approach with England but it seems to have been an excellent fit at Twente Enschede and now at Derby. The quality of players we can attract to our club and what we can pay them is directly influenced by our historical track record. Players who play well for us may well attract attention from others and be offered better financial reward elsewhere. That such a move is always followed by instant approval, acceptance or sporting success is not always the case. However, it must be great when three players a club brings in halfway through a season score the goals for you in a crunch game against a team still 7 points ahead of you. When Lambie left first time around and Clark came in as player-manager the contrast in style was polar opposites. The players were used to post match bust ups and expected them. However, it must be difficult for a former team mate to immediately adopt the role of authoritarian without cultivating an environment for some scepticism. The calm approach failed miserably for Clark but maybe for Archie ( i wasn't present in the dressing room for our run in to the title) it worked. That does not mean that Archie is incapable of reading the riot act, devoid of emotion or unaware of the danger his team is currently hurtling towards. It does not disparage our club to recognise the truth of our league record. It is dangerous to ignore the reality, malign our achievements, disrespect the efforts of our staff and belittle the challenged they face. Maybe we all need to pull the finger out and try to do things a little differently? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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