The Degeneration Of Firhill

[general george]

According to Cowan in today's programme there is now no plans for any spectating accommodation when the south-end is developed. Was this always the case? Have I missed something? As I was under the impression that there would be some sort of seating/standing provision made. Sadly, it seems to me that this shower that masquerades as "Custodians" of our club are now hell-bent on driving us all away slowly-but-surely and then Propco can have Firhill all to themselves.

[McKennan]

What would be the point of 300 seats at the south end of the ground when there are 6000 we can't fill elsewhere?

[Trotter]

http://www.ptfc.co.uk/news/2009-2010/august_2009/club_press_release

 

You make a fair point McKennan. However as the above link shows a year ago that promise was made, especially when people were speculating that we'd be left with a 2 sided ground once PLOPCO was up and running.

 

We're going nowhere people. The board continually lie to us and we come on here and type our worries/concerns about our football club.

 

Can The Trust trust them at the next board meeting? Think we all know the answer.

 

Time for action, new and old forum faces getting together and challenging the board. A fan's association representing the fans, not propping up a board who are unfamiliar with the truth as the above statement shows.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

http://www.ptfc.co.uk/news/2009-2010/august_2009/club_press_release

 

You make a fair point McKennan. However as the above link shows a year ago that promise was made, especially when people were speculating that we'd be left with a 2 sided ground once PLOPCO was up and running.

 

We're going nowhere people. The board continually lie to us and we come on here and type our worries/concerns about our football club.

 

Can The Trust trust them at the next board meeting? Think we all know the answer.

 

Time for action, new and old forum faces getting together and challenging the board. A fan's association representing the fans, not propping up a board who are unfamiliar with the truth as the above statement shows.

I'd cut the Trust some slack until after the next Club Board meeting. Let's find out first of all if we will have a representative on the Board. I'm not meaning that will make any difference to the plight of the Club but it just could have a significant effect on the Trust.

Edited September 11, 2010 by lady-isobel-barnett

[Trotter]

I'd cut the Trust some slack until after the next Club Board meeting. Let's find out first of all if we will have a representative on the Board. I'm not meaning that will make any difference to the plight of the Club but it just could have a significant affect on the Trust.

 

Not a dig at The Trust but surely to goodness somethings got to give? The Trust have done a lot for the club (BOD included) and took the leap of faith in return for certain promises- which to my understanding have not all been delivered on?

 

Broken promises is what this board is about. They can assure The Trust at the next meeting that they will deliver on certain things, until next time. Then quite possibly there will be another meeting about a meeting. It's getting ridiculous and Cowan's programme notes today seem to go back on one the main promises that was made- that Firhill will be a 4 sided football stadium.

 

Bottom line is The Trust can no longer trust these jokers.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Trotter

[Steven H]

Not a dig at The Trust but surely to goodness somethings got to give? The Trust have done a lot for the club (BOD included) and took the leap of faith in return for certain promises- which to my understanding have not all been delivered on?

 

Broken promises is what this board is about. They can assure The Trust at the next meeting that they will deliver on certain things, until next time. Then quite possibly there will be another meeting about a meeting. It's getting ridiculous and Cowan's programme notes today seem to go back on one the main promises that was made- that Firhill will be a 4 sided football stadium.

 

Bottom line is The Trust can no longer trust these jokers.

 

It wasnt a promise it was a consideration/after-thought and it wasn't in the plans originally. In the plans that were displayed in the Aitken Suite there were a few rows of seats that were dwarfed by the development itself and looked stupid. I specifically asked if these seats were defo goin in and to be fair to him he said they wouldnt be goin in originally but would be considerd afterward.

 

More importantly, in those plans there were clear facilities for the Club, i.e. Boardroom, Offices, Changing Rooms etc. Those plans wont be going ahead until the Main Stand is developed according to Cowans programe notes and I am wondering why this decision was taken...adds to the conspiracy theory in my eyes but could be a decision made on a maximising profit from phase 1

[honved]

It wasnt a promise it was a consideration/after-thought and it wasn't in the plans originally. In the plans that were displayed in the Aitken Suite there were a few rows of seats that were dwarfed by the development itself and looked stupid. I specifically asked if these seats were defo goin in and to be fair to him he said they wouldnt be goin in originally but would be considerd afterward.

 

More importantly, in those plans there were clear facilities for the Club, i.e. Boardroom, Offices, Changing Rooms etc. Those plans wont be going ahead until the Main Stand is developed according to Cowans programe notes and I am wondering why this decision was taken...adds to the conspiracy theory in my eyes but could be a decision made on a maximising profit from phase 1

 

Propco's intention is to develop the main stand and south end - with a commitment to a four-sided football stadium - when favourable property market conditions return (with an exit premium of 5% for investors).

 

From the press release. That looks like a promise to me, but it's not a huge surprise that there are hints that it won't go ahead.

 

As for not building facilities for the football club in phase one, that could mean a number of things. It could be that the space will be created but not fitted out, or it could be that there will be flats or commercial units where the club space was going to be. Possibly this has come out of consultation with the planners or with the Housing Association. It might be taht the club can't afford to build what they need in the context of the struture of thepropco deal. Who knows? We are only the paying customers after all.

[Steven H]

From the press release. That looks like a promise to me, but it's not a huge surprise that there are hints that it won't go ahead.

 

As for not building facilities for the football club in phase one, that could mean a number of things. It could be that the space will be created but not fitted out, or it could be that there will be flats or commercial units where the club space was going to be. Possibly this has come out of consultation with the planners or with the Housing Association. It might be taht the club can't afford to build what they need in the context of the struture of thepropco deal. Who knows? We are only the paying customers after all.

 

Another example of the stuff released to the press not being in line with what is being said to the fans, I took what Cowan said as something that was being considered but I remember the piece you quote (now that you've quoted it) and stand corrected .

 

The facilities now being moved to the main stand is concerning me for 2 reasons:

 

1) Is this a case of giving more time to see if the Club survive long enough for phase 2 to start, never mind finish.

 

2) Cowan states "the development company are legally bound to provide new facilities before the old ones are demolished". I assume the demolision of the Main Stand will now be a 2 part exercise with the offices and changing rooms remaining while the stand itself is demolished. So does this mean the new Club facilities will be built in the 1st part of phase 2? Not expecting an answer to this btw, I doubt anyone knows anymore than Cowan has said in his notes...but its some coincidence that these changes have been made while the JT Rep has not been in position.

[1 John Lambie]

What a mess.

[e4b]

There are two separate but related matters from Mr.Cowan's remarks in Saturday's programme:

 

This Board are now committed to the destruction of Firhill as a stadium of any merit. Apart possibly from the bizarre Braga in Portugal, I know of no half-decent stadium anywhere in the world that is not four-sided.Half a brain tells you that. Which is why this Board,and Mr.Cowan in particular, beyond any doubt whatsoever gave supporters repeated promises,100% assurances,commitments, call it what you like, that the ground "development" would entail at the very least the potential at some stage for spectators on all four sides. This was done in writing, in press releases, and verbally.

 

Which brings us to the the second point, which is the utterly disgraceful way this U-turn on the most crucial of issues has come about. Without any warning or consultation,two days after the Jags Trust meeting at which a director was present and said nothing, and on the eve of planning permission being decided, Mr.Cowan glibly sneaks in the decision of no spectators ever at the South end. And this in the match programme which not everyone reads. If this is what was in Mr.Cowan's mind all along, then we have been strung along with promises that were never going to be kept. Sadly,all this now calls into question not only Mr.Cowan's judgement, but also his integrity - which until I read Saturday's programme I had always accepted.

 

I no longer have faith or sufficient trust in Mr.Cowan.It's time for him to step aside.

[Willjag]

To be fair... I suspect that Allan Cowan is only the messenger here, this is being driven by those behind Propco. (He should be fighting the Club's corner though in this deal!)

[McKennan]

It strikes me that the club's corner is propco's corner.

[Chris near Oxford]

There are two separate but related matters from Mr.Cowan's remarks in Saturday's programme:

 

This Board are now committed to the destruction of Firhill as a stadium of any merit. Apart possibly from the bizarre Braga in Portugal, I know of no half-decent stadium anywhere in the world that is not four-sided.

http://www.stadiumguide.com/kassam1.jpg

 

Some of us get used to it!

[general george]

There are two separate but related matters from Mr.Cowan's remarks in Saturday's programme:

 

This Board are now committed to the destruction of Firhill as a stadium of any merit. Apart possibly from the bizarre Braga in Portugal, I know of no half-decent stadium anywhere in the world that is not four-sided.Half a brain tells you that. Which is why this Board,and Mr.Cowan in particular, beyond any doubt whatsoever gave supporters repeated promises,100% assurances,commitments, call it what you like, that the ground "development" would entail at the very least the potential at some stage for spectators on all four sides. This was done in writing, in press releases, and verbally.

 

Which brings us to the the second point, which is the utterly disgraceful way this U-turn on the most crucial of issues has come about. Without any warning or consultation,two days after the Jags Trust meeting at which a director was present and said nothing, and on the eve of planning permission being decided, Mr.Cowan glibly sneaks in the decision of no spectators ever at the South end. And this in the match programme which not everyone reads. If this is what was in Mr.Cowan's mind all along, then we have been strung along with promises that were never going to be kept. Sadly,all this now calls into question not only Mr.Cowan's judgement, but also his integrity - which until I read Saturday's programme I had always accepted.

 

I no longer have faith or sufficient trust in Mr.Cowan.It's time for him to step aside.

Very well put, and my sentiments entirely!

[Robert Dunn's Potential]

It strikes me that the club's corner is propco's corner.

You mean the directors' corner is propco's corner I assume (of course the directors involved will have taken every measure to avoid conflicts of interest).

 

Surely you don't think there is synergy in aim between PTFC and a special purpose company set up to strip assets from PTFC and make as much money as possible out of them.

[McKennan]

You mean the directors' corner is propco's corner I assume (of course the directors involved will have taken every measure to avoid conflicts of interest).

 

Surely you don't think there is synergy in aim between PTFC and a special purpose company set up to strip assets from PTFC and make as much money as possible out of them.

 

You may say so, I couldn't possibly comment.

[Robert Dunn's Potential]

You may say so, I couldn't possibly comment.

So you can comment on fans being critical but not on the board dismantling the club - are you channeling your inner Neville Chamberlain?

[stolenscone]

So you can comment on fans being critical but not on the board dismantling the club - are you channeling your inner Neville Chamberlain?

 

I think it's an oft quoted reference to Ian Richardson in the excellent mini-series House of Cards rather than any real desire not to comment.

[crazy davie]

I think it's an oft quoted reference to Ian Richardson in the excellent mini-series House of Cards rather than any real desire not to comment.

...and it indicates agreement with the other person

[McKennan]

I think it's an oft quoted reference to Ian Richardson in the excellent mini-series House of Cards rather than any real desire not to comment.

 

Thank you.

[McKennan]

...and it indicates agreement with the other person

 

Thank you.

[BearsdenLoyal]

It strikes me that the club's corner is propco's corner.

 

Redeveloping the old home-end and the old main stand doesn't automatically mean Firhill has to end up looking like an ugly lop-sided half of a ground. Good planning and design could make it a real integrated attraction.

 

How many times have I got to tell you? Some companies would appoint top-notch planning and development consultants and pay them tens of thousands just to get it right in advance (and that would include consultation with Thistle fans who happen to be the main source of income for the club). Local residents should also be involved in the process.

 

Apart from a good corporate hospitality section and club offices etc., etc., there should be apartments, a casino, a live music venue, a lapdancing club, a sports bar, an Indian restaurant, a dvd-hire shop, a health and fitness club, an off-licence, a Waitrose and other selected shop units -- all for the profit of PTFC, the club, not some property company or fat-cat directors.

 

I cannot understand, for the life of me, why a football club can't diversify like that. Fag companies have diversified into chemicals and paint making so why can't Thistle expand that way?

 

An underground walkway between the Woodside Inn and a new subway station at Queen's Cross would be handy too ...

Edited September 16, 2010 by BearsdenLoyal

[McKennan]

:lol: :lol:

[BearsdenLoyal]

:lol: :lol:

Edited September 16, 2010 by BearsdenLoyal

[McKennan]

Easily roiled.