JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Right we went 4-6-0 in Prague and that was possibly the worst game of football I have witnessed in my life. But to constantly go on about 1 game where the was a major f-up and use that as the main reason to get rid then I'm afraid I can't subscribe to that. Any international manager should get AT LEAST one full campaign and probably 2 to decide if he's been a success or not. Now, I'm no Craig Levein mega-fan by Any stretch of the imagination, but I think he's doing ok, not great, but ok. Out of interest, who from these two managers records is the best? 1) P 16 W 5. D 3. L8. 2) P 14 W 7. D 2. L 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 The problem isn't just the 4-6-0, it's the fact that Levein STILL wont admit that he mad a mistake and still defends himself for doing so. He brought the game in this country into disrepute round the world with his ridiculous tactics and yet he still is adamat HE was right. In the last 2 games, he only included 4 strikers (one of whom was Steven Naismith who played in midfield both games) When Miller was suspened and McCail-Smith injured, he chose not to bring another striker into the squad knowing that he only had the untried Goodwille to play the role. Leaving the issue of Stephen Fletcher aside for a minute, surely he should have brought another striker in for what was a must win game? Ross McCormack is in great form for Leeds and was overlooked, Chris McGuire has just got a move to Derby and was overlooked and the guy Murphy at Motherwell has a host of Premiership admirers. We now have a better squad of players than was available to Burley, particularly in midfield. However, the manager with his insipid tactics and his total arrogance is holding us back. I have little or no confidence he'll get us a win in Liechtenstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Giving Levein more time is a bit like going into hospital for a triple bypass and being told that during the operation you unfortunately contracted MRSA. The surgeon tells you that they're not going to give you antibiotics to counter the bacteraemia, but instead are going to leave things untreated to see if you'll get better on your own without any further medical intervention. This might sound sensible enough to some but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) Giving Levein more time is a bit like going into hospital for a triple bypass and being told that during the operation you unfortunately contracted MRSA. The surgeon tells you that they're not going to give you antibiotics to counter the bacteraemia, but instead are going to leave things untreated to see if you'll get better on your own without any further medical intervention. This might sound sensible enough to some but... It`s also a bit like saying the guy might have made a mistake but what`s the point of that when EVERYONE knows he`ll never make a Scotland manager. Hey, it`s not always easy to jump on a bandwagon!! Edited September 11, 2011 by hebridean jag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 On the off chance anyone out there is stupid enough (on this forum anything is possible) to think to the contrary, I think the current manager is doing a good job and should even be congratulated on the progress the team is making. Apparently, unlike many, I had`nt made a decision on the guy BEFORE a ball had been kicked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) So, going by most of the previous posts, should Thistle perhaps be looking at mcnamaras future? Can't see much difference between the two...... And for the record before I'm acused of wanting McNamara out, I definitely don't but can see a lot of parallels between the two managers - hence my question. Edited September 11, 2011 by JaggyThistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 So, going by most of the previous posts, should Thistle perhaps be looking at mcnamaras future? Can't see much difference between the two...... And for the record before I'm acused of wanting McNamara out, I definitely don't but can see a lot of parallels between the two managers - hence my question. I dont see the paralells. Jackie took on a difficuly job in difficuly circumstances and in my opinion has done ok so far given he's had his budget reduced from last season and is having to rely on younger players. Levein has taken on a squad with better players than his predecessor and brought them down to his level. The evidence is all over the performances in the qualifiers where we have been woeful in every game apart from part of the Spain game. And for the record, I thought Levein would have been a decent appointment when it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Right we went 4-6-0 in Prague and that was possibly the worst game of football I have witnessed in my life. But to constantly go on about 1 game where the was a major f-up and use that as the main reason to get rid then I'm afraid I can't subscribe to that. Any international manager should get AT LEAST one full campaign and probably 2 to decide if he's been a success or not. Now, I'm no Craig Levein mega-fan by Any stretch of the imagination, but I think he's doing ok, not great, but ok. Out of interest, who from these two managers records is the best? 1) P 16 W 5. D 3. L8. 2) P 14 W 7. D 2. L 5. that's the point, it isn't just one game apart from maybe one game they have been crap and if we had went for it we might have won but we didn't we played the same crap he always does and we are still no closer to qualifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lennythistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 McGregor stuck 2 fingers up at the Scotland fans yet you didn't mention him. Fletcher criticised Levein, rightly, for taking 4 (?) strikers to the Czech Republic and playing none of them. What Fletcher did was not as bad was McGregor did. Scotland have the best players they've had for years and Levein couldn't even organise them beat Lichtenstein or Lithuania comfortably. He needs sacked. McGregor and Ferguson reacted to the media....not the scotland fans...why have some sections of the TA got it into their heads that the gesture was aimed at the supports. The gesture was stupid and immature but the reation to it was way OTT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 On the off chance anyone out there is stupid enough (on this forum anything is possible) to think to the contrary, I think the current manager is doing a good job and should even be congratulated on the progress the team is making. Apparently, unlike many, I had`nt made a decision on the guy BEFORE a ball had been kicked neither have i and have explained why i think he is rubbish, so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 (edited) McGregor and Ferguson reacted to the media....not the scotland fans...why have some sections of the TA got it into their heads that the gesture was aimed at the supports. The gesture was stupid and immature but the reation to it was way OTT. disagree i was at the match and they got pelters for being an ********* oh and i am not and have never been a member of the TA Edited September 11, 2011 by jaggybunnet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 I dont see the paralells. Jackie took on a difficuly job in difficuly circumstances and in my opinion has done ok so far given he's had his budget reduced from last season and is having to rely on younger players. Levein has taken on a squad with better players than his predecessor and brought them down to his level. The evidence is all over the performances in the qualifiers where we have been woeful in every game apart from part of the Spain game. And for the record, I thought Levein would have been a decent appointment when it was made. Managerial records, one of them is macnamaras the other is Leveins. What's the difference? 1) P 16 W 5. D 3. L8. 2) P 14 W 7. D 2. L 5. The point I'm getting at is why is it ok to shout for ones head and not the others? Both are doing very different jobs, but both are at the same point in the learning curve of their respective careers, but one gets time and the other doesn't? And at least give levein credit for bringing this squad together instead of "inheriting" it. He is also bringing in younger guys who need to be blooded and who will hopefully go on to be good servants of the national team. Yes Scotland have been pretty poor to watch, but Thistle this season has been a whole lot worse. Now, that said, i think I can see what Jackie is trying to do and he needs the time and patience to get there. Do we not afford a certain other the same time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Managerial records, one of them is macnamaras the other is Leveins. What's the difference? 1) P 16 W 5. D 3. L8. 2) P 14 W 7. D 2. L 5. The point I'm getting at is why is it ok to shout for ones head and not the others? Both are doing very different jobs, but both are at the same point in the learning curve of their respective careers, but one gets time and the other doesn't? And at least give levein credit for bringing this squad together instead of "inheriting" it. He is also bringing in younger guys who need to be blooded and who will hopefully go on to be good servants of the national team. Yes Scotland have been pretty poor to watch, but Thistle this season has been a whole lot worse. Now, that said, i think I can see what Jackie is trying to do and he needs the time and patience to get there. Do we not afford a certain other the same time? the difference is that jackie can only bring in what the club can afford, levein has a much larger choice which he doesn't bother with. i could put up with him if he had a tiny squad to pick from but he doesn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 the difference is that jackie can only bring in what the club can afford, levein has a much larger choice which he doesn't bother with. i could put up with him if he had a tiny squad to pick from but he doesn't Yes there's lots of Scottish players, but very few of genuine international quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 The big difference for me is Jackie is a willing learner and Levein thinks he knows it all. Read my post about the strikers he could have brought in for the Lithuania game, that tells you all you need to know about the arrogance of the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 The big difference for me is Jackie is a willing learner and Levein thinks he knows it all. Read my post about the strikers he could have brought in for the Lithuania game, that tells you all you need to know about the arrogance of the man. So it's based more on personality than ability? If thts how managers are now judged then god help us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Leaving the 4-6-0 travesty to the side (including the fact Levein still insists it was the right thing at the time coz it NEARLY worked), leaving aside the Fletcher issue (where Grant B is being ultra hypocritical), and leaving aside Levein's results record. I still aint convinced he can take the national side forward due to the negative tactics he insists on, and that's not the formation either as a 4-5-1 can be attacking if played right. Against Czech Republic and Lithuania we were on the front foot whenever we got the chance, then 5 mins after going a goal up it was a case trying to shut up shop. We aint Italy, we don't grind out 1 nils very often, and even when we do, its heart attack stuff. Look what happened when we attacked Spain, we were 2-0 down and it was a case of 'ok, lets go for the throat, we've nothing to lose. Change the approach so that we always attack like we have nothing to lose and he'll do ok...go out to win games in style, with a bit of gallusness. It was once the Scottish way. If Levein continues the trend then there's no point in him being in charge. Smith and McLeish tried the 'lets scrape a few wins here' approach and failed, Levein will do the same if he doesn't go all guns blazing against Lichtenstien and Spain. If he persists with the negative approach (again, not the formation - the approach) then I will be joining the Levein out camp. Hate negative tactics, and hate it even more when my team adopts them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaggyThistle Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Leaving the 4-6-0 travesty to the side (including the fact Levein still insists it was the right thing at the time coz it NEARLY worked), leaving aside the Fletcher issue (where Grant B is being ultra hypocritical), and leaving aside Levein's results record. I still aint convinced he can take the national side forward due to the negative tactics he insists on, and that's not the formation either as a 4-5-1 can be attacking if played right. Against Czech Republic and Lithuania we were on the front foot whenever we got the chance, then 5 mins after going a goal up it was a case trying to shut up shop. We aint Italy, we don't grind out 1 nils very often, and even when we do, its heart attack stuff. Look what happened when we attacked Spain, we were 2-0 down and it was a case of 'ok, lets go for the throat, we've nothing to lose. Change the approach so that we always attack like we have nothing to lose and he'll do ok...go out to win games in style, with a bit of gallusness. It was once the Scottish way. If Levein continues the trend then there's no point in him being in charge. Smith and McLeish tried the 'lets scrape a few wins here' approach and failed, Levein will do the same if he doesn't go all guns blazing against Lichtenstien and Spain. If he persists with the negative approach (again, not the formation - the approach) then I will be joining the Levein out camp. Hate negative tactics, and hate it even more when my team adopts them. Ok so Levein out. Who do we get in then that's gonna do anything different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 Ok so Levein out. Who do we get in then that's gonna do anything different? Not saying that, yet. John Lambie of course (irony). Actually not bothered as long as they approach the games with a winning attitude who looks to beat teams up rather than go 1-0 up then shite it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted September 11, 2011 Report Share Posted September 11, 2011 The first person to suggest Souness as a reasonable replacement could do with a double lobotomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 So it's based more on personality than ability? If thts how managers are now judged then god help us. Not really. It's based on the fact that he is too arrogant to admit he makes mistakes and that in my book makes him a dangerous guy to be in charge of our beloved national team. I could have forgiven the 4-6-0 fiasco but for the fact that Levein still doesn't admit it was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 leaving aside the Fletcher issue (where Grant B is being ultra hypocritical), and leaving aside Levein's results record. I'd love to know the full story with Fletcher. To the best of my knowledge, he asked not to be selected for the Northern Ireland game only due to him falling out with Levein over the 4-6-0 game in Prague. We've heard Levein talking about it but no one has ever printed Fletcher's side. Given the fact that we dont have many truly international class strikers, a decent manager would at least have tried to sort the situation out. I wouldn't be surprised if Ross McCormack was the next player to tell Levein where to go given it shows how low Levein must rate him if he can't get into a squad that only has ONE striker left in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 I'd love to know the full story with Fletcher. To the best of my knowledge, he asked not to be selected for the Northern Ireland game only due to him falling out with Levein over the 4-6-0 game in Prague. We've heard Levein talking about it but no one has ever printed Fletcher's side. Fletcher does`nt have a side. He knocked back his country and his reasons are irrelevant simply because there are no reasons. It should be regarded as the huge honour it is. End of discussion from me. You either know this stuff or you don`t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Fletcher does`nt have a side. He knocked back his country and his reasons are irrelevant simply because there are no reasons. It should be regarded as the huge honour it is. End of discussion from me. You either know this stuff or you don`t. Eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blutarsky Posted September 12, 2011 Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Managerial records, one of them is macnamaras the other is Leveins. What's the difference? 1) P 16 W 5. D 3. L8. 2) P 14 W 7. D 2. L 5. What, indeed. Well then, for a start you've omitted a very large tract of Avril's failure and mediocrity in club football management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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