League Reconstruction - Part 5,236,127

[twinny]

It seems that the SFA has proposed a streamlining of Scottish footballing bodies and the introduction of a pyramid structure. As always, this is in the hands of the club boards, so it is likely that these proposals will be rejected. These proposals seem to go some way to help the top tier of the SFL, but I can't get past the fact that divisions 2 and 3 will end up with a pittance. I suppose this could be affected by an increase in competition that would perhaps result from the start of a pyramid structure.

[uberteeb]

So to summarise all the SPL clubs bar the OF won’t vote for it because they have more chance of going down, all the 3^rd Division clubs will vote against it as they could see themselves drop out of the league and pretty much all of the blazers will vote against it as it will drastically reduce their numbers and subsequent perks. Lets see how far this gets…

 

Although the idea of an 11^th SPL and 2/3/4 1^st sounds great, we’d be in both a relegation dogfight and promotion chase until March or April. God forbid they give us some excitement.

[McKennan]

An 'enhanced' parachute payment for relegated clubs, eh? Well hell. That's really going to open up competition for the SFL1 championship.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

It seems that the SFA has proposed a streamlining of Scottish footballing bodies and the introduction of a pyramid structure. As always, this is in the hands of the club boards, so it is likely that these proposals will be rejected. These proposals seem to go some way to help the top tier of the SFL, but I can't get past the fact that divisions 2 and 3 will end up with a pittance. I suppose this could be affected by an increase in competition that would perhaps result from the start of a pyramid structure.

Generalising I know but Divisions 2 & 3 are largely made up of part time clubs with a part time attitude. They appear to be comfortable with the status quo of playing each other four times a season and more to the point a league system that disallows relegation and promotion to their second tier. If I wanted to be ultra cynical it's also in the interest of the majority of SFL clubs to have full time clubs struggling for existence with one or two brought down to their level an annual bonus perhaps.

For all the many faults of the SPL I don't think not serving their member clubs is one of them. With the SFL it can easily be argued that they pander to I grant you a majority, but a majority who have little ambition and have an obvious minority of fan support.

Nothing will happen in positive change not just because of the self interest of the SPL but because of the relative petty self interest of the majority within the SFL. Hypothetically say the SPL said they'd introduce a straight 2 up to 2 down (or expand their league to 16 clubs) on the understanding that the SFL allow promotion & relegation to and from the 3rd Div, how would the SFL vote? I think I know the answer would be "no thanks we'll keep our closed shop".

I hate with a passion these small leagues with their monotonous repetitive fixtures but that aside I feel the only way forward for clubs in our league would be an SPL2. Put another way the status quo within the SFL has no positive future for clubs like ours.

Edited December 21, 2011 by lady-isobel-barnett

[McKennan]

What may happen is that clubs like Thistle may take one look at who's up for change in the SFL and who's not. The chances are it'll be the SPL wannabes that'll most want change. What should our club do if the majority of the SFL clubs oppose that change but eight or nine others want to move on?

[twinny]

What may happen is that clubs like Thistle may take one look at who's up for change in the SFL and who's not. The chances are it'll be the SPL wannabes that'll most want change. What should our club do if the majority of the SFL clubs oppose that change but eight or nine others want to move on?

 

All ten first division clubs could withdraw our SFL membership and apply for SPL membership. Nothing as drastic as that will ever happen, but realistically it is the only chance any of the above changes will be implemented.

[twinny]

An 'enhanced' parachute payment for relegated clubs, eh? Well hell. That's really going to open up competition for the SFL1 championship.

 

How often do relegated SPL clubs go straight back up? I can only remember ICT and Hibs doing it in recent times. If there is the chance of a playoff then we'll see two clubs go up more often than not, so having one team with a large pay-off won't hinder competition too much. Some of the current SPL clubs would really struggle financially if relegated, and with the chance of two teams coming down, that would be more likely. Even with £400k, if Killie were relegated I doubt they'd be competing for promotion the following season.

[Norman]

A nation of 5.2 million people with 42 "senior" clubs, each playing their league rivals at least 4 times each season through the winter months.

 

Scottish football is broken and the only people who could choose to fix it, won't.

[McKennan]

How often do relegated SPL clubs go straight back up? I can only remember ICT and Hibs doing it in recent times. If there is the chance of a playoff then we'll see two clubs go up more often than not, so having one team with a large pay-off won't hinder competition too much. Some of the current SPL clubs would really struggle financially if relegated, and with the chance of two teams coming down, that would be more likely. Even with £400k, if Killie were relegated I doubt they'd be competing for promotion the following season.

 

My point being that all we're ever going to see is a smaller number of clubs moving between the SFL and the SPL than just now. The attrition rate is going up and SFL clubs will, I feel, have less to spend while the relegated clubs will have far more resources under these new 'rules'.

 

You're right in that it won't guarantee immediate promotion but as well as having to deal with a huge gulf in funding between leagues, clubs like Thistle will have to cope with a funding gap within the league.

Edited December 21, 2011 by McKennan

[McKennan]

A nation of 5.2 million people with 42 "senior" clubs, each playing their league rivals at least 4 times each season through the winter months.

 

Scottish football is broken and the only people who could choose to fix it, won't.

 

To my way of looking at matters, the 5.2 million and the 42 aren't the issue. Most weeks Scottish senior football is lucky to see 115,000 people through the turnstiles. That's the bottom line. That tells me that for all the hype and bluster, football is not Scotland's game anymore.

 

League size and winter football? You're spot on. Let's have a field sport that's played when people aren't inclined to go over the door; when it's too cold; that's too expensive. That's a winner.

[McKennan]

All ten first division clubs could withdraw our SFL membership and apply for SPL membership. Nothing as drastic as that will ever happen, but realistically it is the only chance any of the above changes will be implemented.

 

Who knows, Twinny? Desperate times.

[twinny]

To my way of looking at matters, the 5.2 million and the 42 aren't the issue. Most weeks Scottish senior football is lucky to see 115,000 people through the turnstiles. That's the bottom line. That tells me that for all the hype and bluster, football is not Scotland's game anymore.

 

League size and winter football? You're spot on. Let's have a field sport that's played when people aren't inclined to go over the door; when it's too cold; that's too expensive. That's a winner.

 

I agree - I find it hard to place any blame with the number of clubs and size of the country. English football has several tiers below the Football League with quality equal or above our third division.

[Lenziejag2]

Oh well, I suppose I had better make my regular plea, as follows: (1) Let the 'ugly 12' in the SPL get on with their own thing, but insist on 1-up/1-down plus a play-off between 11th in the SPL and 2nd in the SFL; (2) restructure the SFL as two leagues of 16, thereby allowing two new teams into the SFL framework (?Spartans, Gala Fairydean, or similar); (3) play home and away once each in the league (no more boring four-times-a-season nonsense); (4) have divisional knock-out cups (16 is the ideal number for this); (5) continue with the Ramsdens Cup and the League Cup and the Scottish Cup; (6) allow for pyramid structure with two 'new' teams promoted into the 'new' SFL 2 each season; (7) consider having more part-time outfits; (8) consider use of artificial grass surfaces to counter Scotland's notorious weather problems; and (8) reduce admission costs to entice greater attendances. Happy Christmas to all - especially in the SFL!

[briogadh]

Oh well, I suppose I had better make my regular plea, as follows: (1) Let the 'ugly 12' in the SPL get on with their own thing, but insist on 1-up/1-down plus a play-off between 11th in the SPL and 2nd in the SFL; (2) restructure the SFL as two leagues of 16, thereby allowing two new teams into the SFL framework (?Spartans, Gala Fairydean, or similar); (3) play home and away once each in the league (no more boring four-times-a-season nonsense); (4) have divisional knock-out cups (16 is the ideal number for this); (5) continue with the Ramsdens Cup and the League Cup and the Scottish Cup; (6) allow for pyramid structure with two 'new' teams promoted into the 'new' SFL 2 each season; (7) consider having more part-time outfits; (8) consider use of artificial grass surfaces to counter Scotland's notorious weather problems; and (8) reduce admission costs to entice greater attendances. Happy Christmas to all - especially in the SFL!

 

 

You are too sensible, my man. Behind you 100% but of course the OF and the (very few, if any ) clubs which delude themselves that they can challenge, would vote such ideas out right away. A pyramid system can work only if everyone is involved, which means opening up the SPL.Not going to happen.

The success of rhe Championship in England is based on real competition with three,,yes three, going up each year and three coming down. Even those clubs struggling at the bottom of the SPL must have seen how profitable the play-off system has been down there, with all finals played at the national stadium ( Wembley). If only our structure were not solely based on self-preservation we might see a true revival in Scottish football, My New Year wish!

[taffthejag]

Excuse my cynicism, but league re-construction will mean the turkeys voting for Xmas, which isn't going to happen. The Scottish preference appears to be an SPL of 2 clubs, with the rest of little interest to them, and they can organise it amongst themselves.

[Lenziejag2]

Dear All: We can't afford to let this question slip off the front page of the Forum! While the OF are distracted by their own latest encounter, those of us in the SFL should be pushing hard for the sort of reconstruction proposed (yet again!) just before Christmas. The betterment of the game in Scotland will be "bottom-up" rather than "top-down", so if we make enough 'noise' and agitate for change at regular intervals, then someone might eventually listen! And a Happy New Year to one and all - when it comes!

[Trotter]

I'm willing to bet that if, as looks likely, Ross County get promoted & Dunfermline are relegated then there will be calls from within the SPL for reconstruction. The extra money required to be paid for a possible two round trips to the Highlands- clubs and fans- coupled with no away support to speak off for the home games means a lot of the central belt clubs will be further out of pocket from their own Self Preservation League.

 

A Ross County promotion only really suits ICT.

[Lambies Lost Doo]

I'd support what Lenziejag2 says and nothing to do with the fact I'm originally from the G66 elite myself. To expand on some points it would be good for SPL and SFL to merge.

 

(1) Premier Division. 12 in the SPL with 1-up/1-down plus a play-off over 2 legs between 11th in the SPL and 2nd in the SFL. Could even have 3rd bottom of the SPL involved. It would mean the Top/Bottom 6 split is kept interesting for the teams at the bottom. I think the split works as it decreases the number of games played and also has midtable teams fighting to get into the Top 6. Playing each other 4 times a season is tedious but tv wants 4 OF games and there is not enough money to go round as argued by Henry McCleish.

(2) Championship Division. Restructure league below as 1 league of 16 rebranded similar to the English Championship. New teams to be included would be Rangers and Celtic B teams. This could be arrangement with lower league teams who keep their badge identity etc or 2 brand new teams. This would increase away support and finance considerably. We need to work with what we have and to tap into getting money of their supporters to help us and others like us makes business sense. If you look at the attendance of Div 2 and 3 the only team who has "decent" support is Airdrie United. Every other team has attendances in 3 figures. Teams will not die but will operate at the level they really should be at. The friendly against Celtic U19's in the summer showed the financial viability and the atmosphere generated to me is a no-brainer. It may also help the national team as youth get more exposure and better coaching.

(3) Championship fixtures. Lower league play home and away once each in the league.

(4) Cups. Have divisional knock-out cups. I think a League Cup where teams are guaranteed local derbies improves atmosphere and again finance. Not sure if mini-leagues or some kind of random generation for the earlier rounds. This would help say Dunfermline/Falkirk, Kilmarnock/Ayr, Morton/St Mirren etc. With change in structure maybe look at removing Ramsdens Cup. Potential mini groups in League Cup would mean extra more exciting fixtures. Keep League Cup and the Scottish Cup

(5) Promotion/Relagation to Championship. Allow for pyramid structure with two 'new' teams promoted into the 'new' Division each season.

(6) Resources. Encourage more part-time outfits where necessary. Also get local clubs to share facilities - training resources and youth.

(7) Weather. Use artificial grass surfaces to counter Scotland's wet weather. Start league earlier and finish later especially in the lower league. I love watching Juniors play midweeks in the May/June sun.

(8) Marketing. "Real Scottish football", Friday night games, intelligent arrangement of fixtures, pricing, stealing best bits of sports like Rugby, other football divisions etc to increase interest and attendance. We are a football mad country. We just need to get the interest back.