Just Say Yes

[jaggybunnet]

jb = perfect example of the no camp, complete negativity and unwillingness to acknowledge everything would go through a transition phase of differing periods (some short, some over a period of years); completely negative towards the depths of skills and talent in the country; dismissive of the raft of industries already establshed and what could be attracted to the country; ridiculing the income of utilising and maximising the wide range of resources (natural and manmade) the country possesses; blind to the extensive income and range and areas we already export to and emerging and existing markets we could increase ouir exports to; happy to ignore Scotland would be better off per head if freed from the union; and complete lack of belief in the people of Scotland being able to better themselves when their own destiny is in their own hands under independence.

 

If we could replicate him a few hundred times across all types of internet and media forums, it would guarantee a victory for the yes campaign, and independence for Scotland.

 

yoda-jag = perfect example of the yes camp, anyone who dares to question the great leader ecks master plan is being negative, no i am just worried that it wont work and want to see some sort of proof or plan, something he/they has failed to do.

 

all we see is of course is they will all do exactly as scotland wants, no one will ever say no to them.

[twinny]

Do you need Alex Salmond to tell you exactly what he's going to be serving for his dinner post independence before you make your mind up which way to vote?

[Norgethistle]

Do you need Alex Salmond to tell you exactly what he's going to be serving for his dinner post independence before you make your mind up which way to vote?

 

No unless I will be eating dinner at his house the day after the vote is counted, but I would like to know what Scotland will do in regards defence, tax, passports, currency, borders, europe, electricity, transport, trade, policing etc etc. That will allow me to make my mind up, currently I know what I have in the "NO" camp (What we have now) compared to the vote now we'll decide later "YES" camp

[GrantB]

No unless I will be eating dinner at his house the day after the vote is counted, but I would like to know what Scotland will do in regards defence, tax, passports, currency, borders, europe, electricity, transport, trade, policing etc etc. That will allow me to make my mind up, currently I know what I have in the "NO" camp (What we have now) compared to the vote now we'll decide later "YES" camp

 

No one knows the consequence of a No vote either given that the Tories are savagely cutting everything they can get their hands on and will be likely to see us a soft target now that the question of independence is out of the question. See the aftermath of 1979 for an example.

 

Also they are committed to a referendum on EU membership if they are returned to office. Labour have also said they wont be reversing Osbourne's newly announced cuts to I would suggest there is every bit as much uncertainty for the country if it rejects the chance of better...

[jaggybunnet]

Do you need Alex Salmond to tell you exactly what he's going to be serving for his dinner post independence before you make your mind up which way to vote?

 

so you couldn't think of anything to say then

[Norgethistle]

 

 

No one knows the consequence of a No vote either given that the Tories are savagely cutting everything they can get their hands on and will be likely to see us a soft target now that the question of independence is out of the question. See the aftermath of 1979 for an example.

 

Also they are committed to a referendum on EU membership if they are returned to office. Labour have also said they wont be reversing Osbourne's newly announced cuts to I would suggest there is every bit as much uncertainty for the country if it rejects the chance of better...

 

The tories or any government will need to cut back we have a defecit left from Browns tenarship of being chancellor then PM, no one even uncle Alex could magic money from nowhere

 

At least the Tories have stated the public will get a chance to decide on EU membership' that's more than the YES campaign have promised, more a lets wait and see

[twinny]

so you couldn't think of anything to say then

 

Nope, just started thinking about that quote about insanity often misattributed to Albert Einstein and my usual vow to avoid political discussions on this forum.

 

Besides, I'm not actually convinced 100% on independence, in fact until recently I sat on the fence. I just enjoy a good argument from time to time. It's irrelevant really, I don't get a vote.

[The Jukebox Rebel]

jb = perfect example of the no camp, complete negativity and unwillingness to acknowledge everything would go through a transition phase of differing periods (some short, some over a period of years); completely negative towards the depths of skills and talent in the country; dismissive of the raft of industries already establshed and what could be attracted to the country; ridiculing the income of utilising and maximising the wide range of resources (natural and manmade) the country possesses; blind to the extensive income and range and areas we already export to and emerging and existing markets we could increase ouir exports to; happy to ignore Scotland would be better off per head if freed from the union; and complete lack of belief in the people of Scotland being able to better themselves when their own destiny is in their own hands under independence.

 

If we could replicate him a few hundred times across all types of internet and media forums, it would guarantee a victory for the yes campaign, and independence for Scotland.

 

FFS yoda-jag. As accurate as this summary is, I'm now going to have nightmares about hunners o' grumpy jaggybunnets, marching up The Mound wi' big placards, each daubed with a great big "NAW", led by Jack shouting:

 

Whit di we want?

NUTTIN AT A'

When di we want it?"

NEVER!

 

Grant's post # 2 seems a bit clearer now...

Edited June 28, 2013 by The Jukebox Rebel

[jaggybunnet]

Nope, just started thinking about that quote about insanity often misattributed to Albert Einstein and my usual vow to avoid political discussions on this forum.

 

Besides, I'm not actually convinced 100% on independence, in fact until recently I sat on the fence. I just enjoy a good argument from time to time. It's irrelevant really, I don't get a vote.

 

why not?

[yoda-jag]

yoda-jag = perfect example of the yes camp, anyone who dares to question the great leader ecks master plan is being negative, no i am just worried that it wont work and want to see some sort of proof or plan, something he/they has failed to do.

 

all we see is of course is they will all do exactly as scotland wants, no one will ever say no to them.

 

where have i mentioned salmond? you are wrong on so many levels jb.

 

 

 

FFS yoda-jag. As accurate as this summary is, I'm now going to have nightmares about hunners o' grumpy jaggybunnets, marching up The Mound wi' big placards, each daubed with a great big "NAW", led by Jack shouting:

 

Whit di we want?

NUTTIN AT A'

When di we want it?"

NEVER!

 

welcome to my nightmares.

 

if suffer them i have to, so the rest of you shall too.

 

(but on the upside, such images of multiple jb's, offer some comedic value it does.)

Edited June 29, 2013 by yoda-jag

[jaggybunnet]

where have i mentioned salmond? you are wrong on so many levels jb.

 

 

the snp or should we call it ecks party are the yes camp and yes we do get him if you vote yes

[yoda-jag]

the snp or should we call it ecks party are the yes camp and yes we do get him if you vote yes

 

there is more to the yes "camp" than the snp.

both political party wise, as well as business wise.

you really need to brush up your arguments jb.

 

and if scotland votes yes for independence, doesn't mean it will vote for snp government at following election.

remember the independence vote does not elect a government.

two different things.

[Blackpool Jags]

My big dread over a majority YES vote, is not Scotland becoming independent per se, but that while Scotland will almost always have left of centre administrations, Engurlund will revert back to being a blue nosed, pro-royalist paradise for 57 varieties of Tories, UKIP, BNP, EDL types - in Government! YEUCH!!

 

I wish it was straightforward enough for me to up sticks and come home... If only.

[yoda-jag]

My big dread over a majority YES vote, is not Scotland becoming independent per se, but that while Scotland will almost always have left of centre administrations, Engurlund will revert back to being a blue nosed, pro-royalist paradise for 57 varieties of Tories, UKIP, BNP, EDL types - in Government! YEUCH!!

 

I wish it was straightforward enough for me to up sticks and come home... If only.

 

you have my condolences and sympathies

[jaggybunnet]

there is more to the yes "camp" than the snp.

both political party wise, as well as business wise.

you really need to brush up your arguments jb.

 

and if scotland votes yes for independence, doesn't mean it will vote for snp government at following election.

remember the independence vote does not elect a government.

two different things.

 

nothing to brush up on at all

 

who would be in power till 2016, thats right eck so yes it is a vote for them and the damage they can do in that period is scary to say the least.

 

he would find ways to delay it as well

[alx]

The SNP are getting pelters for a lack of information on various issues. Most of these questions take 30 seconds on Google to answer. Some of the above posts are asking question that are covered by:

 

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

 

Deja Vu... hasn't this been on fora passim????

 

Anyhoo the topics covered are:

 

Abandoning the English: We'd abandon the English to decades of Tory rule.

 

Alex Salmond: Alex Salmond stirs up divisions.

 

Anti-English: Scottish nationalism is motivated by hatred of the English.

 

BBC: You'll not get the BBC on telly after independence.

 

Benefits: An independent Scotland couldn't afford to pay the bill for everyone on benefits.

 

Bombing airports: Scotland's airports would be bombed by England.

 

Border controls: There would be border controls and we'd need passports to visit Newcastle.

 

Border disputes: There will be disputes about the border between Scotland and England.

 

Braveheart: The woad to independence.

 

NEW British identity: After independence, Scots can no longer share in a British identity.

 

Brussels rule: With independence we'd just be swapping London rule for rule from Brussels and Berlin.

 

NEW Case for independence: Supporters of independence need to argue their case and supply precise details of how independence benefits Scotland.

 

Central bank: We can't really be independent without our own currency and a central bank.

 

Continental shelf: If Westminster retains control of Shetland, Orkney and Rockall, Scotland will have no oil resources.

 

Credit rating: Scotland would lose the AAA credit rating it enjoys as part of the UK.

 

Cybernats: There's a concerted and organised campaign of vitriol and hatred from cybernats.

 

Darien: The Darien scheme bankrupted Scotland and we were saved by the Union.

 

Debt: Scotland would be unable to service the amount of debt it would be required to take on.

 

Defence: Scotland would be defenceless without the UK armed forces and would lose thousands of defence jobs.

 

Devo-max: If we vote against independence we can have devo-max instead.

 

Divisions: Scotland is too divided to be independent.

 

Embassies: It will cost a fortune to set up separate Scottish embassies everywhere.

 

EU membership: Scotland would be forced to reapply for EU membership.

 

Euro: Scotland would be forced to use the euro.

 

Expats: I'm an expat, independence means my English children would become foreigners to me.

 

NEW Freebies: After independence Scots would lose our 'freebies' like free prescriptions, free education, and bus passes for the elderly.

 

Gaelic: Public employees would be forced to learn Gaelic.

 

Gay rights: Scotland would allow homophobes to dictate policy and introduce anti-gay legislation.

 

Greece: An independent Scotland would end up like Greece.

 

Greed: Scotland benefited financially from the UK before the oil was found. It's just greed to keep it for ourselves now it's our turn to share.

 

History: We have 300 years' of history in the Union, we shouldn't throw that away.

 

Independence negotiations: Independence negotiations will drag on for years.

 

International influence: The Union allows Scotland to punch above her weight internationally.

 

Investment: The independence debate threatens inward investment in the Scottish economy.

 

Nationalism: Nationalism is regressive and backward looking.

 

Northern Ireland: Independence would undermine the Good Friday agreement. Violence in Northern Ireland would spread to Scotland.

 

Oil: The oil is running out and won't last much longer.

 

NEW Oil: After the oil runs out Scotland will not be able to afford to pay for public services.

 

One party state: Under Alex Salmond and the SNP, Scotland would become a one-party state.

 

Overseas business: Independence would destroy Scotland's say in the world – removing the ability to do big business overseas.

 

Partition: If some parts of Scotland vote no, but others yes, then we could find the country partitioned.

 

Positive case for the Union: The anti-independence parties will make a positive case for Scotland remaining within the Union.

 

Postage charges: It will cost a fortune to shop on eBay as postal charges from England will increase.

 

Pound sterling: Scotland wouldn't be allowed to continue to use the pound.

 

Poverty: Scotland is too poor to be independent.

 

Public sector workers: Scotland is over reliant on public sector employment Without Westminster we'd lose all those jobs.

 

Queen: Scotland won't be able to retain the Queen as head of state.

 

Racism: The SNP is just a neo-fascist tartan version of the BNP.

 

Redistributive union: If we believe in the idea of Scotland as a progressive beacon, why would we turn our back on the redistributive union, the United Kingdom?

 

Referendum legality: A referendum held by the Scottish Parliament would be illegal and non-binding.

 

Rejoining the UK: An independent Scotland would not be able to rejoin the UK if everything went wrong.

 

Rennie's Riddle: If 51% vote for independence, but 99% vote for extra powers, independence wouldn't be the choice of the largest number of people.

 

Royal Bank of Scotland: The cost of bailing out RBS would have bankrupted an independent Scotland.

 

Separation: Nationalists want separation.

 

Service personnel: My son's in the Royal Navy. He'd lose his job after independence.

 

Shetland and Orkney: Shetland and Orkney aren't really Scottish.

 

NEW SNP: I'm a Labour / Lib Dem / Conservative / Monster Raving Loony voter. A vote for independence is a vote for the SNP.

 

Social union: The SNP doesn't know what it means by independence if it talks about a "social union".

 

Spain: Spain would veto Scottish membership of the EU.

 

Subsidies: Scotland depends upon subsidies from the UK to run our economy.

 

NEW Terrorism: An independent Scotland would be a terrorist threat.

 

Togetherness: We're stronger together than we are apart.

 

Travel abroad: Independence would prevent Scots from travelling safely in foreign countries.

 

Trident: Scotland would have to pay for the removal of Trident and the cost of a new base in the rump-UK.

 

UN Security Council: The UK will lose its seat on the UN Security Council.

 

Unanswered questions: Too many unanswered questions remain about independence.

 

Volatile oil price: Scotland is over-dependent on the volatile price of oil.

 

World War 2: We fought Hitler together, independence betrays the memory of those who fought WW2.

 

Young voters: The SNP want to allow children to vote because they're more likely to vote yes to independence.

[P-R]

Really

nothing to brush up on at all

 

who would be in power till 2016, thats right eck so yes it is a vote for them and the damage they can do in that period is scary to say the least.

 

he would find ways to delay it as well

Really? Given that it has always fallen on the first Thursday of May every 4 years since 1999 and is only 2016 this time round because it clashed with the UK general election in 2015?

[The Jukebox Rebel]

The SNP are getting pelters for a lack of information on various issues. Most of these questions take 30 seconds on Google to answer. Some of the above posts are asking question that are covered by:

 

http://www.newsnetsc...-misinformation

 

Deja Vu... hasn't this been on fora passim????

 

Anyhoo the topics covered are:

 

Abandoning the English: We'd abandon the English to decades of Tory rule.

 

Alex Salmond: Alex Salmond stirs up divisions.

 

Anti-English: Scottish nationalism is motivated by hatred of the English.

 

BBC: You'll not get the BBC on telly after independence.

 

Benefits: An independent Scotland couldn't afford to pay the bill for everyone on benefits.

 

Bombing airports: Scotland's airports would be bombed by England.

 

Border controls: There would be border controls and we'd need passports to visit Newcastle.

 

Border disputes: There will be disputes about the border between Scotland and England.

 

Braveheart: The woad to independence.

 

NEW British identity: After independence, Scots can no longer share in a British identity.

 

Brussels rule: With independence we'd just be swapping London rule for rule from Brussels and Berlin.

 

NEW Case for independence: Supporters of independence need to argue their case and supply precise details of how independence benefits Scotland.

 

Central bank: We can't really be independent without our own currency and a central bank.

 

Continental shelf: If Westminster retains control of Shetland, Orkney and Rockall, Scotland will have no oil resources.

 

Credit rating: Scotland would lose the AAA credit rating it enjoys as part of the UK.

 

Cybernats: There's a concerted and organised campaign of vitriol and hatred from cybernats.

 

Darien: The Darien scheme bankrupted Scotland and we were saved by the Union.

 

Debt: Scotland would be unable to service the amount of debt it would be required to take on.

 

Defence: Scotland would be defenceless without the UK armed forces and would lose thousands of defence jobs.

 

Devo-max: If we vote against independence we can have devo-max instead.

 

Divisions: Scotland is too divided to be independent.

 

Embassies: It will cost a fortune to set up separate Scottish embassies everywhere.

 

EU membership: Scotland would be forced to reapply for EU membership.

 

Euro: Scotland would be forced to use the euro.

 

Expats: I'm an expat, independence means my English children would become foreigners to me.

 

NEW Freebies: After independence Scots would lose our 'freebies' like free prescriptions, free education, and bus passes for the elderly.

 

Gaelic: Public employees would be forced to learn Gaelic.

 

Gay rights: Scotland would allow homophobes to dictate policy and introduce anti-gay legislation.

 

Greece: An independent Scotland would end up like Greece.

 

Greed: Scotland benefited financially from the UK before the oil was found. It's just greed to keep it for ourselves now it's our turn to share.

 

History: We have 300 years' of history in the Union, we shouldn't throw that away.

 

Independence negotiations: Independence negotiations will drag on for years.

 

International influence: The Union allows Scotland to punch above her weight internationally.

 

Investment: The independence debate threatens inward investment in the Scottish economy.

 

Nationalism: Nationalism is regressive and backward looking.

 

Northern Ireland: Independence would undermine the Good Friday agreement. Violence in Northern Ireland would spread to Scotland.

 

Oil: The oil is running out and won't last much longer.

 

NEW Oil: After the oil runs out Scotland will not be able to afford to pay for public services.

 

One party state: Under Alex Salmond and the SNP, Scotland would become a one-party state.

 

Overseas business: Independence would destroy Scotland's say in the world – removing the ability to do big business overseas.

 

Partition: If some parts of Scotland vote no, but others yes, then we could find the country partitioned.

 

Positive case for the Union: The anti-independence parties will make a positive case for Scotland remaining within the Union.

 

Postage charges: It will cost a fortune to shop on eBay as postal charges from England will increase.

 

Pound sterling: Scotland wouldn't be allowed to continue to use the pound.

 

Poverty: Scotland is too poor to be independent.

 

Public sector workers: Scotland is over reliant on public sector employment Without Westminster we'd lose all those jobs.

 

Queen: Scotland won't be able to retain the Queen as head of state.

 

Racism: The SNP is just a neo-fascist tartan version of the BNP.

 

Redistributive union: If we believe in the idea of Scotland as a progressive beacon, why would we turn our back on the redistributive union, the United Kingdom?

 

Referendum legality: A referendum held by the Scottish Parliament would be illegal and non-binding.

 

Rejoining the UK: An independent Scotland would not be able to rejoin the UK if everything went wrong.

 

Rennie's Riddle: If 51% vote for independence, but 99% vote for extra powers, independence wouldn't be the choice of the largest number of people.

 

Royal Bank of Scotland: The cost of bailing out RBS would have bankrupted an independent Scotland.

 

Separation: Nationalists want separation.

 

Service personnel: My son's in the Royal Navy. He'd lose his job after independence.

 

Shetland and Orkney: Shetland and Orkney aren't really Scottish.

 

NEW SNP: I'm a Labour / Lib Dem / Conservative / Monster Raving Loony voter. A vote for independence is a vote for the SNP.

 

Social union: The SNP doesn't know what it means by independence if it talks about a "social union".

 

Spain: Spain would veto Scottish membership of the EU.

 

Subsidies: Scotland depends upon subsidies from the UK to run our economy.

 

NEW Terrorism: An independent Scotland would be a terrorist threat.

 

Togetherness: We're stronger together than we are apart.

 

Travel abroad: Independence would prevent Scots from travelling safely in foreign countries.

 

Trident: Scotland would have to pay for the removal of Trident and the cost of a new base in the rump-UK.

 

UN Security Council: The UK will lose its seat on the UN Security Council.

 

Unanswered questions: Too many unanswered questions remain about independence.

 

Volatile oil price: Scotland is over-dependent on the volatile price of oil.

 

World War 2: We fought Hitler together, independence betrays the memory of those who fought WW2.

 

Young voters: The SNP want to allow children to vote because they're more likely to vote yes to independence.

 

Clearly the greatest post on this thread so far (sorry Guy!)

 

In fact, it's probably the most magnificent post I've seen on this forum since I joined a few months back. And there's been some crackers!

 

I was gearing up to do something to bring these points alive alx, you've done a grand job and saved me a lot of bother. Weel done laddie.

 

I'm going to carry that message for the next 15 months.

 

I really dont get the no campers who stand there with their arms crossed, kind of like "here we are now, entertain us".

 

Frankly, if you're a no or a maybe and care a jot about this issue, and goddam it, this is your children's future we're talking about here, then the least you can do is look into whatever issue is concerning you. Virtually all the answers are there, and we're 15 months ahead of the game. Ok, so you might not know how much tax you're going to pay yet. How on earth can the SNP credibly answer that (let's not forget this is only a principle referendum - independence day is likely to be 3 years away yet). Taxation is decided on budget day - as it is with any sensible nation. You'll need to decide whether you think David Cameron's lot or Alex Salmond's lot will cut the fairest deal for the people of Scotland... some degree of faith is required. The SNP haven't let Scotland down so far and they're not going to start now. 95% of the issues which are able to be dealt with have been dealt with.

 

Norge,

 

It almost seems like you're expecting Alex Salmond to row over to Stavanger, park up his dinghy, taxi up to yer hoose and sit doon and go through the issues one by one until he's drafted you up a personal constitution. Since that's no happening I fear you'll stay no forever, more's the pity.

 

Many of the post-independence issues are going to be amazingly simple, some are going to be more difficult and time consuming. None of them are impossible tasks. And luckily, in the SNP, we have an amazing group of people who are energised, focused and geared up to deliver. Despite the economic doom and gloom all over the SNP have worked wonders on limited budget over it's tenure. And we could do so much more for everyone here if we could only get in control of our own finances. I just can't understand why we continue to let someone else rule our land. We don't need to go cap in hand and beg for what's already ours. Surely it's time to wake up and smell the coffee?

 

According to a recent poll (think it was Scotsman in March), we are now in a position where a mere 7% swing would put the Yes campaign ahead. This is the closest we've been so far. The people are starting to get the message. The more the Yes campaign is allowed to speak (more head to head debates PLEASE BBC and STV), the more people hear the truth, then just watch that poll turn on it's head.

 

No think they have this won. They think a few front page scary headlines in the Daily Record will see them through. I hope we're not all as stupid as they think we are...

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________

↓ The A to Z of Independence - Sorting myth from fact ↓

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

[The Jukebox Rebel]

My big dread over a majority YES vote, is not Scotland becoming independent per se, but that while Scotland will almost always have left of centre administrations, Engurlund will revert back to being a blue nosed, pro-royalist paradise for 57 varieties of Tories, UKIP, BNP, EDL types - in Government! YEUCH!!

 

I wish it was straightforward enough for me to up sticks and come home... If only.

 

You drill in to such a good point here Blackpool. The politics of fear are surely the worst of all. Losing Scotland's Labour share is London Labour's worst nightmare come true. They'd almost be condemned. Which is why the Scottish Labour Party are so brainwashed beyond rationality into Unionism.

 

But London Labour's potential problem, or more to the point English socialism's potential problem, is not Scotland's problem.

 

Scotland must put herself first. And she'll be a better neighbour than ever before.

 

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________

↓ The A to Z of Independence - Sorting myth from fact ↓

http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/4341-a-unionist-lexicon-an-a-z-of-unionist-scare-stories-myths-and-misinformation

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Edited June 29, 2013 by The Jukebox Rebel

[jaggybunnet]

You drill in to such a good point here Blackpool. The politics of fear are surely the worst of all. Losing Scotland's Labour share is London Labour's worst nightmare come true. They'd almost be condemned. Which is why the Scottish Labour Party are so brainwashed beyond rationality into Unionism.

 

But London Labour's potential problem, or more to the point English socialism's potential problem, is not Scotland's problem.

 

Scotland must put herself first. And she'll be a better neighbour than ever before.

 

 

 

 

 

_____________________________________________________

↓ The A to Z of Independence - Sorting myth from fact ↓

http://www.newsnetsc...-misinformation

¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

[yoda-jag]

 

so you couldn't think of anything to say then ?

 

 

poor show jb

Edited June 29, 2013 by yoda-jag

[Guy Incognito]

an army that doesn't deploy its solders is not an army, its just a badly trained toy for the likes of eck to parade sometimes.

 

As someone who is also employed by the British government I know only too well that when decisions are made on high you go where you are asked and do what you are asked. Like it or lump it. Some servicemen may not like the idea of transferring out of the British army, but they may not have much say in the matter (save from their right to vote in the referendum). I don't like a lot of things my department asks me to do, but I accept it, because it is what I signed up to.

 

Soldiers in a Scottish defence force would still be able to go on manoeuvres, so wouldn't be confined to camp all day. As we all know, Scotland has a large and lucrative natural resource, so patrols by both sea and air patrols will also be necessary. Scotland would be part of the UN, so there is the possibility that some would be posted overseas as part of peace keeping forces. It is SNP policy for Scotland to be in NATO (a policy I disagree with, but that's another matter) so again, there is the possibility there to see action overseas.

 

Salmond was, and is, against the UK's involvement in Afghanistan, and I agree with him. The war in Afghanistan was about little other than imperialism.

 

Attract????? They are press ganged, its compulsary national service, it has 20,000 including conscipts for the army, with a reserve force of a further 60,000 (Who couldn't keep weans out a close going by the ones I know), they are also active in Afghanistan and North of Norway defending the border with Russia

 

Right, so it is able to attract 80,000 people, including a reserve force and 'conscripted' teenagers.

 

There is a lot to be said for a career which provides you with a roof over your head, a pension and transferable skills. Being in the armed forces needn't mean having your body or mind (or both) blown to bits. War is the pits. Of all the arguments in favour of staying in the United Kingdom the one which goes 'we wouldn't be able to fight in wars' has to rank among the most perverse of all.

[yoda-jag]

nothing to brush up on at all

 

who would be in power till 2016, thats right eck so yes it is a vote for them and the damage they can do in that period is scary to say the least.

 

he would find ways to delay it as well

 

 

do you actually believe the nonsense you spout, or do you just make up idiotic statements to avoid factual points and an intelligent debate or adult conversation?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh, silly me, thats right you are in the no camp, your nonsense is symptomatic of the default position of the no camp.

[yoda-jag]

As someone who is also employed by the British government .....

 

etc etc etc

 

Another of jbs nonsense statements debunked, thanks and good post GI

[Guy Incognito]

My big dread over a majority YES vote, is not Scotland becoming independent per se, but that while Scotland will almost always have left of centre administrations, Engurlund will revert back to being a blue nosed, pro-royalist paradise for 57 varieties of Tories, UKIP, BNP, EDL types - in Government! YEUCH!!

 

I wish it was straightforward enough for me to up sticks and come home... If only.

 

It is a bit of an urban myth that Scotland acts as a guarantor against endless right-wing rule in the UK. If you remove the Scottish votes from every general election held in the past 30 years the largest party still remains the same.

 

You also need to ask why Labour, the supposed 'left-wing' alternative to the Tories, made the decision to move to the right. The simple answer is because they knew they had Scotland, Wales and the north of England in the bag, but in order to win power they had to be able to compete with the Tories in the south of England as well. In the 1990s this tactic proved very successful.

 

I do feel for left-wing voters in England a bit. A while ago I came across this article, which goes into the subject in a bit more detail:

 

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/why-doesn%E2%80%99t-labour-face-ukip-left

 

The SNP are getting pelters for a lack of information on various issues. Most of these questions take 30 seconds on Google to answer. Some of the above posts are asking question that are covered by:

 

http://www.newsnetsc...-misinformation

 

Deja Vu... hasn't this been on fora passim????

 

Anyhoo the topics covered are:

 

Abandoning the English: We'd abandon the English to decades of Tory rule.

 

Alex Salmond: Alex Salmond stirs up divisions.

 

Anti-English: Scottish nationalism is motivated by hatred of the English.

 

BBC: You'll not get the BBC on telly after independence.

 

Benefits: An independent Scotland couldn't afford to pay the bill for everyone on benefits.

 

Bombing airports: Scotland's airports would be bombed by England.

 

Border controls: There would be border controls and we'd need passports to visit Newcastle.

 

Border disputes: There will be disputes about the border between Scotland and England.

 

Braveheart: The woad to independence.

 

NEW British identity: After independence, Scots can no longer share in a British identity.

 

Brussels rule: With independence we'd just be swapping London rule for rule from Brussels and Berlin.

 

NEW Case for independence: Supporters of independence need to argue their case and supply precise details of how independence benefits Scotland.

 

Central bank: We can't really be independent without our own currency and a central bank.

 

Continental shelf: If Westminster retains control of Shetland, Orkney and Rockall, Scotland will have no oil resources.

 

Credit rating: Scotland would lose the AAA credit rating it enjoys as part of the UK.

 

Cybernats: There's a concerted and organised campaign of vitriol and hatred from cybernats.

 

Darien: The Darien scheme bankrupted Scotland and we were saved by the Union.

 

Debt: Scotland would be unable to service the amount of debt it would be required to take on.

 

Defence: Scotland would be defenceless without the UK armed forces and would lose thousands of defence jobs.

 

Devo-max: If we vote against independence we can have devo-max instead.

 

Divisions: Scotland is too divided to be independent.

 

Embassies: It will cost a fortune to set up separate Scottish embassies everywhere.

 

EU membership: Scotland would be forced to reapply for EU membership.

 

Euro: Scotland would be forced to use the euro.

 

Expats: I'm an expat, independence means my English children would become foreigners to me.

 

NEW Freebies: After independence Scots would lose our 'freebies' like free prescriptions, free education, and bus passes for the elderly.

 

Gaelic: Public employees would be forced to learn Gaelic.

 

Gay rights: Scotland would allow homophobes to dictate policy and introduce anti-gay legislation.

 

Greece: An independent Scotland would end up like Greece.

 

Greed: Scotland benefited financially from the UK before the oil was found. It's just greed to keep it for ourselves now it's our turn to share.

 

History: We have 300 years' of history in the Union, we shouldn't throw that away.

 

Independence negotiations: Independence negotiations will drag on for years.

 

International influence: The Union allows Scotland to punch above her weight internationally.

 

Investment: The independence debate threatens inward investment in the Scottish economy.

 

Nationalism: Nationalism is regressive and backward looking.

 

Northern Ireland: Independence would undermine the Good Friday agreement. Violence in Northern Ireland would spread to Scotland.

 

Oil: The oil is running out and won't last much longer.

 

NEW Oil: After the oil runs out Scotland will not be able to afford to pay for public services.

 

One party state: Under Alex Salmond and the SNP, Scotland would become a one-party state.

 

Overseas business: Independence would destroy Scotland's say in the world – removing the ability to do big business overseas.

 

Partition: If some parts of Scotland vote no, but others yes, then we could find the country partitioned.

 

Positive case for the Union: The anti-independence parties will make a positive case for Scotland remaining within the Union.

 

Postage charges: It will cost a fortune to shop on eBay as postal charges from England will increase.

 

Pound sterling: Scotland wouldn't be allowed to continue to use the pound.

 

Poverty: Scotland is too poor to be independent.

 

Public sector workers: Scotland is over reliant on public sector employment Without Westminster we'd lose all those jobs.

 

Queen: Scotland won't be able to retain the Queen as head of state.

 

Racism: The SNP is just a neo-fascist tartan version of the BNP.

 

Redistributive union: If we believe in the idea of Scotland as a progressive beacon, why would we turn our back on the redistributive union, the United Kingdom?

 

Referendum legality: A referendum held by the Scottish Parliament would be illegal and non-binding.

 

Rejoining the UK: An independent Scotland would not be able to rejoin the UK if everything went wrong.

 

Rennie's Riddle: If 51% vote for independence, but 99% vote for extra powers, independence wouldn't be the choice of the largest number of people.

 

Royal Bank of Scotland: The cost of bailing out RBS would have bankrupted an independent Scotland.

 

Separation: Nationalists want separation.

 

Service personnel: My son's in the Royal Navy. He'd lose his job after independence.

 

Shetland and Orkney: Shetland and Orkney aren't really Scottish.

 

NEW SNP: I'm a Labour / Lib Dem / Conservative / Monster Raving Loony voter. A vote for independence is a vote for the SNP.

 

Social union: The SNP doesn't know what it means by independence if it talks about a "social union".

 

Spain: Spain would veto Scottish membership of the EU.

 

Subsidies: Scotland depends upon subsidies from the UK to run our economy.

 

NEW Terrorism: An independent Scotland would be a terrorist threat.

 

Togetherness: We're stronger together than we are apart.

 

Travel abroad: Independence would prevent Scots from travelling safely in foreign countries.

 

Trident: Scotland would have to pay for the removal of Trident and the cost of a new base in the rump-UK.

 

UN Security Council: The UK will lose its seat on the UN Security Council.

 

Unanswered questions: Too many unanswered questions remain about independence.

 

Volatile oil price: Scotland is over-dependent on the volatile price of oil.

 

World War 2: We fought Hitler together, independence betrays the memory of those who fought WW2.

 

Young voters: The SNP want to allow children to vote because they're more likely to vote yes to independence.

 

A good post, although I do find Newnetscotland a bit emotive and partisan at times.

 

One of the stories is also now out of date: the one about the triple A credit rating. The UK has now subsequently lost its AAA rating. Anyone who believes that Scotland's economy is safe in the UK should take heed of this and remember who it was pulling the financial levers when the banks collapsed. It is largely a result of Westminster's economic policies that the economy is in its current sorry state.