Armand2 Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 What a pathetic bunch of precious revisionists you lot are. Stevenson started slowly last year, I don't think anyone including him would dispute that, but by the end of the season, he was one of our most influential players. He's missed a fair chunk of pre-season due to the injury picked up on that horrendous Hamilton pitch and is perhaps still getting up to speed. But to question his professionalism - questioning only arising because of this nothing incident on Saturday - is nonsense of the highest order. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cup Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Who cares if he applauded the Hearts fans? There were worse things to see on Saturday. Once Stevenson got fit and played in the right role last season he was very good. But if his current level of fitness is only going to allow him to play at 50% then he shouldn't be in the team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinolasBald Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) But to question his professionalism - questioning only arising because of this nothing incident on Saturday - is nonsense of the highest order. I've been questioning his professionalism since he joined, and it was evident on Saturday for his efforts on the pitch, not anything else. Edited August 24, 2015 by GinolasBald Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Stevenson is far from fit. If this was preseason I would give him his due, but this is now 5 games into the season. Whether he was injured during preseason or not is beside the point, Christie Elliot has no excuses either. Pelvis injury? He's had 5 games to get himself into shape. Whether he is injured or not, is besides the point. Rocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) I've been questioning his professionalism since he joined, and it was evident on Saturday for his efforts on the pitch, not anything else. On what basis exactly? That he wasn't as fit as he could have been when he signed? In that case, the fact that he got himself fit and became one of better players is surely evidence of his professionalism. Using Saturday as any kind of basis to question the guy's professionalism is utterly flawed, seeing as he was no poorer than any other Thistle player on the pitch. What it ultimately comes down to is folk getting their knickers in a twist because he acknowledged the fans of a club he played for on two spells with relative success (on an individual basis, at least) and then using that to justify ludicrous slanders towards him. Edited August 24, 2015 by Armand2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinolasBald Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Christie Elliot has no excuses either. Pelvis injury? He's had 5 games to get himself into shape. Whether he is injured or not, is besides the point. Rocket. Is Ryan Stevenson injured now? No. Christie Elliott was fit during preseason, then got injured. Stevenson has now been fit for several weeks and hasn't bothered to get himself match fit despite being 5 games into the season. Rocket. On what basis exactly? That he wasn't as fit as he could have been when he signed? In that case, the fact that he got himself fit and became one of better players is surely evidence of his professionalism. Using Saturday as any kind of basis to question the guy's professionalism is utterly flawed, seeing as he was no poorer than any other Thistle player on the pitch. What it ultimately comes down to is folk getting their knickers in a twist because he acknowledged the fans of a club he played for on two spells with relative success (on an individual basis, at least) and then using that to justify ludicrous slanders towards him. I don't think it shows professionalism to not bother your arse to get fit until 6 months into the season. I can remember Stevenson having 5 or 6 good games for us last season. As I've said, what he did with the Hearts fans doesn't come into my thoughts for this. The debate is being made about Stevenson just now and that's why I've given my thoughts. My opinion hasn't changed from last week or 6 months ago for that matter. I'd love to be proved wrong because on his day he is a very, very good player, but he hasn't been on his day very much since he joined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Stevenson is far from fit. If this was preseason I would give him his due, but this is now 5 games into the season. Whether he was injured during preseason or not is beside the point, he has been able for long enough now to get back into some sort of shape and match fitness - he doesn't even look close. That's two seasons in a row that he's taken a long time to get fit. I remember last season, with a full preseason behind him, he was blowing out his arse after 60 minutes during the first game against Ross County and for several weeks/months after that, hence, along with a loss of form (I'm assuming) is why he was dropped. This season, our numbers are shorter so we can't afford for players to be unfit for weeks/months. Maybe its just his natural body language or whatever but Stevo just does not look like he gives a ****. Him coming off and getting his applause from the Hearts fans was the happiest he's looked in the 2 years he's been with us. Aside from maybe 2/3 months of last season, Stevenson has done absolutely nothing to merit the wages that he's on in comparison to the rest of the squad (whether he's THE highest earner or not, no one can deny that he is at least one of the highest earners) So, your not a fan of Stevo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Stevenson is far from fit. If this was preseason I would give him his due, but this is now 5 games into the season. Whether he was injured during preseason or not is beside the point, he has been able for long enough now to get back into some sort of shape and match fitness - he doesn't even look close. That's two seasons in a row that he's taken a long time to get fit. I remember last season, with a full preseason behind him, he was blowing out his arse after 60 minutes during the first game against Ross County and for several weeks/months after that, hence, along with a loss of form (I'm assuming) is why he was dropped. This season, our numbers are shorter so we can't afford for players to be unfit for weeks/months. Maybe its just his natural body language or whatever but Stevo just does not look like he gives a ****. Him coming off and getting his applause from the Hearts fans was the happiest he's looked in the 2 years he's been with us. Aside from maybe 2/3 months of last season, Stevenson has done absolutely nothing to merit the wages that he's on in comparison to the rest of the squad (whether he's THE highest earner or not, no one can deny that he is at least one of the highest earners) Which players do and don't give a ****, if you don't mind me asking? I always thought almost all of them would, but can you clarify? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinolasBald Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 So, your not a fan of Stevo? You could say that... I genuinely do want to be a fan of him though. I was excited when he signed but I think he has been a massive let down since. If he can get fitter and show a bit of desire on a weekly basis then he probably is the best player in the squad. The talent is definitely there, its just not being shown. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 On what basis exactly? That he wasn't as fit as he could have been when he signed? In that case, the fact that he got himself fit and became one of better players is surely evidence of his professionalism. Using Saturday as any kind of basis to question the guy's professionalism is utterly flawed, seeing as he was no poorer than any other Thistle player on the pitch. What it ultimately comes down to is folk getting their knickers in a twist because he acknowledged the fans of a club he played for on two spells with relative success (on an individual basis, at least) and then using that to justify ludicrous slanders towards him. I have seen one post on this site (none on this thread) that suggests Stevenson was incorrect in applauding the Hearts fans. Even at that, I wouldn't describe it as him getting his knickers in a twist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I have seen one post on this site (none on this thread) that suggests Stevenson was incorrect in applauding the Hearts fans. Even at that, I wouldn't describe it as him getting his knickers in a twist. Well, answer me this - if Stevenson had just been subbed on Saturday, no incident, no applause for the Hearts fans, would we all be having this debate on his professionalism? Of course we wouldn't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Christie Elliot has no excuses either. Pelvis injury? He's had 5 games to get himself into shape. Whether he is injured or not, is besides the point. Rocket. Ridiculous comparison. Elliott is currently injured and will be out for the next few months. Stevenson is not injured any more but appears to lack fitness. Different thing entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Stevenson is not injured any more but appears to lack fitness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 On both counts, how do you actually know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I'd love to see some of you characters at your work on a daily basis.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It is pretty obvious that people have different opinions on Ryan Stevenson. This is the case with most players but, with Stevenson, I think it is highlighted more because he is supposed to be such a key player for us and is one of the highest earners, if not THE highest earner at the club. He was signed on a relatively long term deal and was seen as many as the flagship signing. There was certainly a bigger reaction to him joining than I had seen for a good few years at the club anyway. I was delighted that we managed to secure his services. My personal opinion on him is that I think he could (and hopefully will) do more. I’m not saying for a minute that he is not a good player – far from it actually. He has skill, strength and a load of experience at this level. He can score goals, create, is good in the air and can dig in when he wants. But that is the issue for me. It only seems to be in fits and starts and when he is in the mood. I know that can be said for a lot of players but, for me, last season it was more often than not that he wasn’t up for it. I think I will be right in saying there are a lot of people that share this view. In some games last term he was phenomenal but then the next week he would go back to very ordinary. In his defence, in the very early stages of last season he was being asked to play in a role that he was unaccustomed to and he looked very uncomfortable there. As far as this season goes, I have already stated on another thread that he has missed most of pre-season. For this he should be cut some slack. I would love Stevenson to be more consistent for us. He has the ability but for me he needs to do it more often. My son is going to get a name put on the back of his new strip and I suggested ‘Stevo 10’ because I still believe he can be the ‘main man’ for us. I think he has a bit to go though. There is also the value for money syndrome. The more money that is paid out for someone, the more the fans expect. If Rangers had signed Tore Andre Flo on a free and he scored the same amount of goals for them as he did, he would have been seen as a bargain. But they didn’t (muppets), and the £12m fee was seen as a total waste of money. Whether or not Ryan is the highest earner or not, he is certainly one of the highest earners at the club. And whether it is right or wrong, fans expectations of performance increase. If he was earning a lot less people would not be so critical. With regards to what happened on Saturday, he certainly didn’t endear himself to a section of our support. When the Hearts player went down, it looked like a serious injury and I wasn’t particularly bothered that Stevenson put the ball out of play. Obviously some were, thinking that the guy was feigning injury. This led to a discussion between me and my pal (who has played the game at a decent level) where he was saying the ball shouldn’t have been put out and me defending the ‘injured’ player. Stevenson then chose to glare at the Thistle support, obviously questioning their disapproval of his actions. My pal was proved right and me wrong as Oshaniwa got back up on his feet and carried on playing as if nothing at happened. Then upon his substitution, as Thistle fans were applauding him off the park, he clapped the three sides of the stadium where only Hearts fans were sitting but deliberately ignored the Jags fans who had made the trip through. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken. I personally think this was disrespectful of him and was disappointed in his actions. There has, however, been a mountain made out of a molehill over it. I think it was disrespectful and indefensible but I didn’t boo him like some and I will be willing him on the next time he is wearing our strip (think he may be rested tomorrow night). I would like to think everyone else will too. What has been more disappointing to me though is this forum. I visit here on a pretty regular basis to get info of what is going on at the club, see what fellow Jags fans think, share my view on certain things and even sometimes get a laugh. Fans see things differently and have differing opinions. No two people are the same. Some of the abuse that posters receive for having a different point of view is totally out of order and unnecessary. F**king morons, rocket, shut the f*ck up etc. It completely ruins my enjoyment of coming on the forum. I would imagine the abusers really revel in the day of the internet forum because if they were to speak to people that way during a pub discussion twenty years ago they would have a season ticket for the Western. Yes, it could be the case that 99% of people may think what someone has posted is rubbish but that person doesn’t think so. If you feel they are trolling, they can always be ignored. I actually quite enjoy some of the posts that the ‘non-believers’ put up and see it as quite comical. Sometimes I think people are talking nonsense and completely disagree. I don’t resort to abusing them unnecessarily though. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 Well, answer me this - if Stevenson had just been subbed on Saturday, no incident, no applause for the Hearts fans, would we all be having this debate on his professionalism? Of course we wouldn't. It was the fact that he didn't applaud the Thistle fans that angered people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) It was the fact that he didn't applaud the Thistle fans that angered people. He did applaud the Thistle fans, though - he pretty obviously glanced across to the away support before circling to clap the Hearts fans. And let's not rewrite what actually happened here - folk were on their feet abusing Stevenson before his hands came together to applaud anyone. Edited August 24, 2015 by Armand2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jag Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 He did applaud the Thistle fans, though - he pretty obviously glanced across to the away support before circling to clap the Hearts fans. And let's not rewrite what actually happened here - folk were on their feet abusing Stevenson before his hands came together to applaud anyone. OK, let's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian_mac Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think the stuff about who he applauded when he came off is a bit ridiculous and I haven't mentioned it as I have no issue with it. But answer me this. If he'd had a good game on Saturday and a decent start to the season, would the applause thing be an issue? He was poor on Saturday and has had a poor start to the season. That's my only issue with him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashman Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It is pretty obvious that people have different opinions on Ryan Stevenson. This is the case with most players but, with Stevenson, I think it is highlighted more because he is supposed to be such a key player for us and is one of the highest earners, if not THE highest earner at the club. He was signed on a relatively long term deal and was seen as many as the flagship signing. There was certainly a bigger reaction to him joining than I had seen for a good few years at the club anyway. I was delighted that we managed to secure his services. I would love Stevenson to be more consistent for us. He has the ability but for me he needs to do it more often. My son is going to get a name put on the back of his new strip and I suggested ‘Stevo 10’ because I still believe he can be the ‘main man’ for us. I think he has a bit to go though. There is also the value for money syndrome. The more money that is paid out for someone, the more the fans expect. If Rangers had signed Tore Andre Flo on a free and he scored the same amount of goals for them as he did, he would have been seen as a bargain. But they didn’t (muppets), and the £12m fee was seen as a total waste of money. Whether or not Ryan is the highest earner or not, he is certainly one of the highest earners at the club. And whether it is right or wrong, fans expectations of performance increase. If he was earning a lot less people would not be so critical. With regards to what happened on Saturday, he certainly didn’t endear himself to a section of our support. When the Hearts player went down, it looked like a serious injury and I wasn’t particularly bothered that Stevenson put the ball out of play. Obviously some were, thinking that the guy was feigning injury. This led to a discussion between me and my pal (who has played the game at a decent level) where he was saying the ball shouldn’t have been put out and me defending the ‘injured’ player. Stevenson then chose to glare at the Thistle support, obviously questioning their disapproval of his actions. My pal was proved right and me wrong as Oshaniwa got back up on his feet and carried on playing as if nothing at happened. Then upon his substitution, as Thistle fans were applauding him off the park, he clapped the three sides of the stadium where only Hearts fans were sitting but deliberately ignored the Jags fans who had made the trip through. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken. I personally think this was disrespectful of him and was disappointed in his actions. There has, however, been a mountain made out of a molehill over it. I think it was disrespectful and indefensible but I didn’t boo him like some and I will be willing him on the next time he is wearing our strip (think he may be rested tomorrow night). I would like to think everyone else will too. It was the fact that he didn't applaud the Thistle fans that angered people. Agreed on pretty much all counts (apologies for excising some of your first post). The only issue I have was with Stevenson kicking the ball out, firstly as we were for one of the few occasions in a threatening position and I felt that, as is the case 99% of the time, the 'injury' was in no way serious. Unless your leg is snapped like Larsson's a few year's back, when you are 1 yard from the touch line and away from the play, any player should be able to shuffle their way off and get treatment. Best leave it up to the ref and get them to earn their corn for a change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westend Jag Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 It is pretty obvious that people have different opinions on Ryan Stevenson. This is the case with most players but, with Stevenson, I think it is highlighted more because he is supposed to be such a key player for us and is one of the highest earners, if not THE highest earner at the club. He was signed on a relatively long term deal and was seen as many as the flagship signing. There was certainly a bigger reaction to him joining than I had seen for a good few years at the club anyway. I was delighted that we managed to secure his services. My personal opinion on him is that I think he could (and hopefully will) do more. I’m not saying for a minute that he is not a good player – far from it actually. He has skill, strength and a load of experience at this level. He can score goals, create, is good in the air and can dig in when he wants. But that is the issue for me. It only seems to be in fits and starts and when he is in the mood. I know that can be said for a lot of players but, for me, last season it was more often than not that he wasn’t up for it. I think I will be right in saying there are a lot of people that share this view. In some games last term he was phenomenal but then the next week he would go back to very ordinary. In his defence, in the very early stages of last season he was being asked to play in a role that he was unaccustomed to and he looked very uncomfortable there. As far as this season goes, I have already stated on another thread that he has missed most of pre-season. For this he should be cut some slack. I would love Stevenson to be more consistent for us. He has the ability but for me he needs to do it more often. My son is going to get a name put on the back of his new strip and I suggested ‘Stevo 10’ because I still believe he can be the ‘main man’ for us. I think he has a bit to go though. There is also the value for money syndrome. The more money that is paid out for someone, the more the fans expect. If Rangers had signed Tore Andre Flo on a free and he scored the same amount of goals for them as he did, he would have been seen as a bargain. But they didn’t (muppets), and the £12m fee was seen as a total waste of money. Whether or not Ryan is the highest earner or not, he is certainly one of the highest earners at the club. And whether it is right or wrong, fans expectations of performance increase. If he was earning a lot less people would not be so critical. With regards to what happened on Saturday, he certainly didn’t endear himself to a section of our support. When the Hearts player went down, it looked like a serious injury and I wasn’t particularly bothered that Stevenson put the ball out of play. Obviously some were, thinking that the guy was feigning injury. This led to a discussion between me and my pal (who has played the game at a decent level) where he was saying the ball shouldn’t have been put out and me defending the ‘injured’ player. Stevenson then chose to glare at the Thistle support, obviously questioning their disapproval of his actions. My pal was proved right and me wrong as Oshaniwa got back up on his feet and carried on playing as if nothing at happened. Then upon his substitution, as Thistle fans were applauding him off the park, he clapped the three sides of the stadium where only Hearts fans were sitting but deliberately ignored the Jags fans who had made the trip through. Anyone who thinks otherwise is mistaken. I personally think this was disrespectful of him and was disappointed in his actions. There has, however, been a mountain made out of a molehill over it. I think it was disrespectful and indefensible but I didn’t boo him like some and I will be willing him on the next time he is wearing our strip (think he may be rested tomorrow night). I would like to think everyone else will too. What has been more disappointing to me though is this forum. I visit here on a pretty regular basis to get info of what is going on at the club, see what fellow Jags fans think, share my view on certain things and even sometimes get a laugh. Fans see things differently and have differing opinions. No two people are the same. Some of the abuse that posters receive for having a different point of view is totally out of order and unnecessary. F**king morons, rocket, shut the f*ck up etc. It completely ruins my enjoyment of coming on the forum. I would imagine the abusers really revel in the day of the internet forum because if they were to speak to people that way during a pub discussion twenty years ago they would have a season ticket for the Western. Yes, it could be the case that 99% of people may think what someone has posted is rubbish but that person doesn’t think so. If you feel they are trolling, they can always be ignored. I actually quite enjoy some of the posts that the ‘non-believers’ put up and see it as quite comical. Sometimes I think people are talking nonsense and completely disagree. I don’t resort to abusing them unnecessarily though. Good post Jag agree with virtually all of it, I have a high expectations of Stevenson and like what he is capable of bringing, my grumble is that it took a while to get going last season and it is starting to look similar this season - whatever the reasons. I was annoyed at him Saturday as he wasn't good (neither were Amoo etc etc) and frustrated that he kicked the ball out when he did. Reading the press last week he made no bones about his time at hearts and the respect he has for their fans, thats great but as a Thistle fan I don't care about that, he plays for us now, Ive paid £24 for him to bust a gut for us and he didn't... but I'm also not really bothered if he wants to clap them when he's being hooked and not bothered if he claps us either - doesn't matter - Im more bothered that he was ineffective the whole time he was on the park. If he isn't fit get him fit and until such times bench him and adjust the starting 11. We didn't play well, no where near good enough and that's unacceptable - the manager has said it as have some of the players - some people have the opinion that there are certain games we shouldn't expect points from - nonsense, whats the point if that is the view?if we are going to get beat lets leave nothing on the park, lets not turn up with the mindset of low expectations...chances are it is a self fulfilling prophecy and you'll get beat...even if you set out a perceived weakened line up for whatever reason, the aim should be to score more than the other lot. Jag's point has also got me wondering, some of the personal abuse certain people get on here is really daft (especially the red monkey fellow who gets more than his fair share - even if you agree or disagree with some of his posts) - are people actually able to put a face to a name on this forum? if so I am amazed there aren't square goes every week at Firhill or is it the fact there seems to be two stands that separate some the only saving grace? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I've already made my thoughts that he was right to put the ball out of play clear. Just wanted to add that I thought he did very briefly applaud the Thistle support, some of whom had already booed him, and then applauded the Hearts fans. I honestly don't see how anyone can have a problem with that. He didn't play very well on Saturday, no one did really, but he can be, and has been on numerous occasions, the difference for us in games and in many games at Firhill he's actually the last one down the tunnel as he stays out to applaud the fans, and for me he's the one who's most visibly annoyed and angry when things aren't going our way so how anyone can accuse him of not caring is baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinolasBald Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 I agree with Jag's post 100%, as well as Ian Mac's. I will cheer on Stevenson, just as I do for the rest of the team, in every game. I don't care who he applauds at the end of the game. Its what he does on the park that I'm bothered with and I have been bothered with his form and, in my opinion, effort in games. It makes it even more frustrating when it's Stevenson for two reasons. The first being that the talent is there and it doesn't seem to be used to its full potential, which is a waste more than anything, and the second, as Jag has alluded to, is that he is one of our highest earners, so he should be one of our best players week in week out. I totally appreciate that players can go in and out of form and have no issue with that, however if someone is having a good game for one in every five or ten, thats where I have a problem. I want to see the best for the club and that means all of our players playing well and, in my opinion of course, Stevenson has not played well on a consistent basis since he has joined the club. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rid Skwerr Posted August 24, 2015 Report Share Posted August 24, 2015 On both counts, how do you actually know? In the case of Elliott, I thought that it was common knowledge that he wouldn't play this side of the New Year. In the case of Stevenson, I used the word "appears" since, other than observing from the stands, I have no specific knowledge of his condition. I was not at the Hearts game so I have no opinion of the issues that seem to have arisen there. My judgement is based his earlier performances this year which I thought were disappointing/lacklustre. I had hoped for a lot more when we signed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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