Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Apologies if this has been done before or is common knowledge amongst board members. I'm looking for any information which details Ken bates involment with Partick Thistle in the mid 80's. Can anybody tell me if this period is detailed in any books, club programs or newspaper articles? In addition if any board members have memories of his time at the club I'd be interested to hear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuthejag Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Apologies if this has been done before or is common knowledge amongst board members. I'm looking for any information which details Ken bates involment with Partick Thistle in the mid 80's. Can anybody tell me if this period is detailed in any books, club programs or newspaper articles? In addition if any board members have memories of his time at the club I'd be interested to hear them. I'm sure it was reported in the mid-late 1980's that current board member Tom Hughes was in discussions with Bates about buying his shareholding or investing in PTFC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 I'm sure it was reported in the mid-late 1980's that current board member Tom Hughes was in discussions with Bates about buying his shareholding or investing in PTFC. I've found various news paper articles on the subject online http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article1029236.ece THE SIGHT of Ken Bates used to inspire anger among the supporters of Partick Thistle. The man who is synonymous with Chelsea has never been forgiven around Firhill for a short-lived, but disastrous, association with Glasgow’s third club. Back in 1986, Thistle were so impoverished that Bates became the majority shareholder after an approach that, in hindsight, was visionary from Miller Reid, the then-chairman at Firhill. The idea was for Partick to become the feeder club in a partnership of the sort that now exists in many forms throughout the world of football, such as Manchester United’s link with Antwerp in Belgium and Sporting Lisbon in Portugal. I wondered if this chapter in the clubs history was detailed in any books related to Partick Thistle or matchday programs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Robert Reid's book, Red And Yellow Forever, touches upon that period. Mercifully, Robert's long memory comes up short on that period in the club's history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Bates was responsible for the disastrous appointment of Derek Johnstone as manager. Johnstone was out of his depth and lasted only a few months. You will find some comments online, e.g. from Jim Oliver. I see that you are from Yorkshire, presumably a Leeds fan. Has Bates said how he is going to find the money to rebuild Elland Road for 2018 if England's World Cup bid is successful? Your club is ripe for takeover and investment, especially with Bradford City in decline. I doubt that Bates will put the necessary money into the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Robert Reid's book, Red And Yellow Forever, touches upon that period. Mercifully, Robert's long memory comes up short on that period in the club's history. Thanks for the info, do you know if the period in question is mentioned in any other books? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) Bates was responsible for the disastrous appointment of Derek Johnstone as manager. Johnstone was out of his depth and lasted only a few months. You will find some comments online, e.g. from Jim Oliver. I see that you are from Yorkshire, presumably a Leeds fan. Has Bates said how he is going to find the money to rebuild Elland Road for 2018 if England's World Cup bid is successful? Your club is ripe for takeover and investment, especially with Bradford City in decline. I doubt that Bates will put the necessary money into the club. As always with KB it's complicated. LUFC & their Holding Company Leeds City holdings state they don't own the stadium, they in fact pay rent to use the facilities. The rent is paid to a company based in the Caribean, which is convienient because that way the owners can remain anonymous. LUFC are currently spending money hand over fist (latest is a conference and banqueting suite) to improve assets owned by a 3rd party. A lot like paying for an extension to be built on a house you rent rather than own. On the face of it if you believe what KB says it doesn't make much sense. Anyway I won't bore you anymore with details on LUFC, I'd be really interested to know where I can learn more about KB's time at Partick Thistle. All help much appreciated. Edited August 17, 2010 by Witch finder general Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris near Oxford Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/thistle-all-scottish-again-donald-heads-the-group-who-take-control-at-firhill-1.632295 The Glasgow Herald Archive only goes back to 1989 when he sold up. This is the most useful article I could find, but I only spent two minutes looking. If you go to the Herald website and type "Ken Bates" you'll get a few more. Might also be worth trying the Scotsman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fistle Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 'I saved Oldham, saved Wigan, saved Partick Thistle, saved Chelsea and Leeds. The common theme is that I took clubs in trouble and built them up. What amuses me is that people pay increased council tax, petrol, every other tax you can think of and don't complain. But put the price of their football ticket up and they go apeshit. So I've said this is the price of watching Leeds - if you want a Leeds. If we do well, if we do well, the fans will come back. That is the challenge facing us.' http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/jul/31/newsstory.sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 As always with KB it's complicated. LUFC & their Holding Company Leeds City holdings state they don't own the stadium, they in fact pay rent to use the facilities. The rent is paid to a company based in the Caribean, which is convienient because that way the owners can remain anonymous. LUFC are currently spending money hand over fist (latest is a conference and banquating suite) to improve assets owned by a 3rd party. A lot like paying for an extension to be built on a house you rent rather than own. On the face of it if you believe what KB says it doesn't make much sense. Anyway I won't bore you anymore with details on LUFC, I'd be really interested to know where I can learn more about KB's time at Partick Thistle. All help much appreciated. Typical of Bates as you say! FIFA will not like the anonymity of the Elland Road owners. IIRC, PTFC paid back an old loan of £100k to Bates a few years ago. Others might have more detail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Typical of Bates as you say! FIFA will not like the anonymity of the Elland Road owners. IIRC, PTFC paid back an old loan of £100k to Bates a few years ago. Others might have more detail. Your previous heads up helped me find this article with Jim Oliver, it gives a little more detail. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20050918/ai_n15359437/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/thistle-all-scottish-again-donald-heads-the-group-who-take-control-at-firhill-1.632295 The Glasgow Herald Archive only goes back to 1989 when he sold up. This is the most useful article I could find, but I only spent two minutes looking. If you go to the Herald website and type "Ken Bates" you'll get a few more. Might also be worth trying the Scotsman. Cheers Chris you're a gent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 'I saved Oldham, saved Wigan, saved Partick Thistle, saved Chelsea and Leeds. The common theme is that I took clubs in trouble and built them up. What amuses me is that people pay increased council tax, petrol, every other tax you can think of and don't complain. But put the price of their football ticket up and they go apeshit. So I've said this is the price of watching Leeds - if you want a Leeds. If we do well, if we do well, the fans will come back. That is the challenge facing us.' http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2005/jul/31/newsstory.sport I'm currently looking into KB's past at Chelsea / Wigan / Oldham & Partick Thistle. All too often investors / creditors & fans are left unhappy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 It might be worthy of note that as far as I can remember Thistle didn't actually need saving when Bates appeared on the scene. As it happened I don't think a conflict of interest ever arose. Imagine tho' we had unearthed another Mo Johnston during the Bates tenure? Can we really believe the player in question would have been sold on the open market? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Check out Derek Johnstone's (auto?)biography too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Check out Derek Johnstone's (auto?)biography too. Thanks for the info, ordered it via Amazon. Bargain at £1.24. I'll keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand copy of Red & Yellow forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) Thanks for the info, do you know if the period in question is mentioned in any other books? Umm, Ian Archer's book was written in 1976 so that's out. Not too sure if the 1876-2002 history touches on the period in depth. Click here. Edited to add: Check out The Herald newspaper's website. Its archive now goes back to 1989. Edited August 17, 2010 by McKennan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Thanks for the info, ordered it via Amazon. Bargain at £1.24. I'll keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand copy of Red & Yellow forever. Try www.abebooks.com. There are a couple of copies available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubaijag Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 One benefit, we got Colin West on loan for a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 One benefit, we got Colin West on loan for a season. and billy dodds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 (edited) and billy dodds I was about to mention Dodds and West. If he'd restricted his involvement to us getting good young players like them on loan then it might have been a good deal but making Johnstone manager was a disastrous decision, I can only think he imposed that on us to get rid of him from Chelsea. I may not be recalling correctly (sic) but I think he was appointed player manager but was of course too fat to play. Edited August 17, 2010 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch finder general Posted August 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 McKennan ta very much for the info on the books, I've spotted a red & yellow forever on ebay & I'll keep my eye on it. Ken Bates was / is in the habit of writing a column in the matchday program at Chelsea & at Leeds. Does anybody remember if he did this while he had a stake in Partick Thistle? If so I'll look out for programs from that period. Many Thanks to all who have helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Thanks for the info, ordered it via Amazon. Bargain at £1.24. I'll keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand copy of Red & Yellow forever. I'm too young to know much about that period, but I saw the book sitting in a bookshop and skimmed it for a mention of Thistle. He dedicated a chapter to his time managing us, and seemed very apologetic for being so rubbish. IIRC he felt pushed into the position by Bates and feels sorry that he had to ruin a team to discover that he wasn't capable of managing a football club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gianlucatoni Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 I remember one sunny afternoon coming out of Kelvingrove Park after a game of football with my buds and accidentally stepping out in front of Bates in Park Road in his car (probably heading towards the old SFA building). When I came round to the drivers side and clocked him I, for some reason or another, told him to eff off and leave the jags alone ... for the life of me I can't think now why I did it but he must've been a complete twat at the time and the feeder club idea raised in a previous post does ring a bell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted August 17, 2010 Report Share Posted August 17, 2010 Thanks for the info, ordered it via Amazon. Bargain at £1.24. I'll keep my eyes open for a 2nd hand copy of Red & Yellow forever. Bargain? £1.23 too much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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