Woodstock Jag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 technically, you are correct. there were more jags fans than dons fans. just. 2462 dons. that means 16 more jags. not "nearly 1000" How can there have been 2,462 Dons when the Main Stand doesn't hold that many people and wasn't full? The certificated capacity of Firhill is 10,102. The Jackie Husband Stand has 6,263 seats. The North Stand has 2,014 seats. Where are the places for these extra 500 or so Aberdeen fans coming from? The canal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 How can there have been 2,462 Dons when the Main Stand doesn't hold that many people and wasn't full? The certificated capacity of Firhill is 10,102. The Jackie Husband Stand has 6,263 seats. The North Stand has 2,014 seats. Where are the places for these extra 500 or so Aberdeen fans coming from? The canal? aberdeen fc. supposedly there was an overflow of dons in jhs? according to a dons supporting work mate, it was on their tweeter feed. believe it was also mentioned on p&b (though that may decrease validity!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 aberdeen fc. supposedly there was an overflow of dons in jhs? according to a dons supporting work mate, it was on their tweeter feed. believe it was also mentioned on p&b (though that may decrease validity!) May well have been. Can't say I noticed them. Presumably up the North End? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck pink Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 There was some cheering when Aberdeen scored from the back of the north end of the JHS but I presumed it was just hospitality. By the sounds of it the "flock" of Aberdeen fans was in the tens rather than hunners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 technically, you are correct. there were more jags fans than dons fans. just. 2462 dons. that means 16 more jags. not "nearly 1000" aberdeen fc. supposedly there was an overflow of dons in jhs? according to a dons supporting work mate, it was on their tweeter feed. believe it was also mentioned on p&b (though that may decrease validity!) May well have been. Can't say I noticed them. Presumably up the North End? seems you were actually, incorrect. (and my work mate got his figures wrong way round) that's if we believe the dons tweet which i've just gone specifically looking for. so, less jags than dons at firhill? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Where is the evidence that we attracted more supporters in the Championship than in the SPFL? Ignore the big one off games- down the years these have always brought out the latent support. If you isolate the games v teams that brought next to no support in our championship winning year,(i dont have the away crowd figures so this makes it easy to indentify core support) this is what you find August 25th Dumbarton 2,944 September 1st Hamilton Academical 2,603 22nd September Cowdenbeath 2,527 October 20th Airdrie United 2,545 November 24th Livingston 2,508 December 15th Raith Rovers 2,221 January 26th Cowdenbeath 2,543 February 19th (Tuesday) Hamilton Academical 2,046 February 23rd Airdrie United 3,021 March 9th Dumbarton 2,715 March 23rd Livingston 2,897 (international weekend. Wales fans in attendance) Allowing for 100 away fans at each game that gives an average Thistle support of 2500. Last season our lowest league , Saturday crowds were v ICT, County and St Johnstone . The lowest being 2603, the highest being 3196 and the others being around 2900. None of these teams brought over 250 fans. Ross and ICt were barely over 100. So at worst you can say the core support is holding up. At best i think you can say it's slightly up? It's not an exact science and it might be slightly skewed but i just don't by this argument being put forward by some. Edited September 2, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Where is the evidence that we attracted more supporters in the Championship than in the SPFL? Ignore the big one off games- down the years these have always brought out the latent support. If you isolate the games v teams that brought next to no support in our championship winning year,(i dont have the away crowd figures so this makes it easy to indentify core support) this is what you find August 25th Dumbarton 2,944 September 1st Hamilton Academical 2,603 22nd September Cowdenbeath 2,527 October 20th Airdrie United 2,545 November 24th Livingston 2,508 December 15th Raith Rovers 2,221 January 26th Cowdenbeath 2,543 February 19th (Tuesday) Hamilton Academical 2,046 February 23rd Airdrie United 3,021 March 9th Dumbarton 2,715 March 23rd Livingston 2,897 (international weekend. Wales fans in attendance) Allowing for 100 away fans at each game that gives an average Thistle support of 2500. Last season our lowest league , Saturday crowds were v ICT, County and St Johnstone . The lowest being 2603, the highest being 3196 and the others being around 2900. None of these teams brought over 250 fans. Ross and ICt were barely over 100. So at worst you can say the core support is holding up. At best i think you can say it's slightly up? It's not an exact science and it might be slightly skewed but i just don't by this argument being put forward by some. So really what you're saying is. The club shouldn't have been creating budgets based on a spike in attendances in year one in the top league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) No, what i'm saying is, i believe it's a myth that our support is disappearing. Unless you or anyone else has actual evidence to the contrary? ie numbers? I've seen lots of discussion/opinions but no actual facts? That was a quick 5 minutes work but i think it holds up to some level of scrutiny? Re the budgeting process i have no idea how it is done but i outlined in another post, how many variables there are and from personal experience how budgets can naturally be skewed towards a positive outcome. Again, if anyone has actual evidence of how the budgeting process is done and specifically where it's gone wrong, i'm sure we'd all be interested to see it. Clearly a budget set with three years experience, should be more accurate than a budget set over two. Edited September 2, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hankey Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 LSR, go and look at the crowds from the Gerry Collins season and compare them to this year and last. We seem to have lost fans for whatever reason over that decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 LSR, go and look at the crowds from the Gerry Collins season and compare them to this year and last. We seem to have lost fans for whatever reason over that decade. I can think of two, Dick and Campbell 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 LSR, go and look at the crowds from the Gerry Collins season and compare them to this year and last. We seem to have lost fans for whatever reason over that decade. Yup. And we've lost fans since the 50's 60's and 70's. I'm not disagreeing with that. I think they are gone now. For various reasons. I'm looking at "data" from the last 3-4-5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 …and so LSR, if we accept those numbers as 'ball park' and take 2,500 as your benchmark and then accept Yodajags evidence that AFC claim to have had 16 more fans in attendance on Saturday we are left with the fact that "playing with the big boys" and aspiring to be all we can be is not attracting any more people. It's the end of August and we are playing Aberdeen at home yet we attracted a bigger home support to watch Cowdenbeath at the end of January with all the excuses that that month comes with from a cash flow, weather et al point of view. I'm not buying the idea that being in the Premiership is what excites people when we all know the horrors of the reality of a relegation battle. I'm just waiting for the thread "how many points do we need to survive" - it comes out every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mediocre Pundit Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Ok, anecdotal evidence time. I've just bought a house that needs renovating so don't have much spare cash - I've not been to Firhill yet this season. However the wife asked if I'd like to go see Braehead Clan last week in their 'Champions League' match and we chose to spend £50 on two tickets - primarily as I get to combine watching good sport with some time with the wife (I work in London most of the week) She enjoys the atmosphere and facilities at Braehead - she hates Firhill (probably more so given how often I've dragged her along against her will) albeit would go if it was possible to sit in a comfier chair with me, be away from any aggression / bad language and have some decent food - i.e. if watching Thistle could be a transactional rather than an emotional decision. We've had the chat about kids too - I think I've won the argument by playing the trump card that if I don't brainwash them to support Thistle then they'll end up being brainwashed into supporting the OF when they go to school (and thus lose their father) but I've got to agree that I wouldn't be happy taking them to Firhill at times. The world has moved on in the last 20 years - football is competing with so many other things for a share of your wallet and we're not as relatively attractive an option as we used to be. I'll continue to drag myself to Firhill on occasion and I'll continue to be unable to explain why to anyone who doesn't have an emotional attachment to a football team themselves. We need to make ourselves more attractive to a wider audience. Braehead have built as big a fanbase as us within 5 years in a niche sport. While we can laugh at the cheesy way they do it and the type of 'fan' that they attract (from my experience many people that are there for an evening out and don't really understand the sport...sounds a bit like Firhill actually...) it's proving successful and there are lessons we could learn from them. ETA: I'm in no way saying we're doing worse than others on these measures - football as a whole has to adapt or continue to shrink... Edited September 2, 2015 by Mediocre Pundit 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Difficult to disagree with any of what MP is saying there. Even assuming ,you ignore the outside competition (Warriors, Rocks, Clan) , being a football fan has completely changed over the last 10 years. There are games on every night of the week and you don't even need a TV or a sky sports subscription to watch them now. A 90 quid Tesco Hudl tablet suffices.in fact man are happy watching tweets come in, rather than a live game. Bizarrely i noticed that betting was available on last night's U20 match( i don't bet). On my twitter feed, some guy IN CHINA went berzerk when Thistle scored. He had been following the game on line via @thistletweet. So it's for these reasons we should be glad that the core 2500 want to spend a tenner extra to watch Aberdeen than Cowdenbeath and have stayed with the club for the last three seasons. They have many, many, reasons to chose to do other things. That choice isn't driven by what the club do or don't do(unless they piss fans off), it's driven by life changing events as MP points out : Mortgage, Spouse/partner/kids. David Beattie is absolutely spot on when he says the whole of football needs to work together to solve this problem. Maybe the club could do more but it's limited in what it can do. I've said it numerous times on here. You could give away 10,000 free tickets every week and by the end of the season, you'd be barely above where we are now. In some people's eyes, thats defeatist and negative. Maybe it is. Or maybe they live in a wee Thistle type bubble ? We should be focussing on keeping the fans we have and improving facilities and experience for the customers who do turn up. Not the ones who have turned their back(for valid reasons). Edited September 2, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B C Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 It fairly simple we have 2500 core supporters there is no disappearing 600 fans, extra numbers for big games come and go. Even if we get relegated I'd still expect over 2000 jags fans to turn up but we are never going to get 3 or 4 thousand every week before away supporters unless perhaps we are in the top 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) So it's set in stone, the oracles have spoken. We have 2500 core support. We haven't lost 600 fans, the club were lying when they said this. Our board just budgeted with fans that weren't there, then blames the losses on them not coming to watch us! Edited September 2, 2015 by potty trained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlgarveJag Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 I guess the So it's set in stone, the oracles have spoken. We have 2500 core support. We haven't lost 600 fans, the club were lying when they said this. Our board just budgeted with fans that weren't there, then blames the losses on them not coming to watch us! I guess they just believed that people would rather watch Aberdeen in August than Cowdenbeath in January. Easy mistake to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) So it's set in stone, the oracles have spoken. We have 2500 core support. We haven't lost 600 fans, the club were lying when they said this. Our board just budgeted with fans that weren't there, then blames the losses on them not coming to watch us! Well that's an interesting interpretation. :lol: . No need for the oracle chat. Entitled to make a post. Just like you. I at least attempted to do some sort of analysis. Do you disagree with the numbers i've posted? Edited September 2, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Scimmia Rossa Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 If you look at season 1 of promotion at try to establish core support, it's very difficult. Mainly because the corresponding ICT, County and St Johnstone games aren't comparable-two of them being midweek. It's a very poor sample of 1 but the Ross County match in Jan of Season 1 attracted 3000 Thistle fans( my estimate). My feeling is we had a year one bounce from 2500 "core" in season 1. They dwindled by about 400 or so in season 2 leaving us a couple of hundred up on core support but down overall. If we have an ok season this year, i'd expect that to remain steady and it might even grow slightly. A guesstimate is we are "marketing" to 200-300 floating fans. Tops. All guesswork and conjecture but at least with some thought? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Well that's an interesting interpretation. :lol: . No need for the oracle chat. Entitled to make a post. Just like you. I at least attempted to do some sort of analysis. Do you disagree with the numbers i've posted? The tit for tat back and forward you two, and ianmac have had going in the last few days is absolutely tragic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Well that's an interesting interpretation. :lol: . No need for the oracle chat. Entitled to make a post. Just like you. I at least attempted to do some sort of analysis. Do you disagree with the numbers i've posted? No I don't, I've posted similar figures. I think the breakdown. Is close to 1900 JHS 600 NS if memory serves me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
potty trained Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 The tit for tat back and forward you two, and ianmac have had going in the last few days is absolutely tragic. Can you put us on ignore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Can you put us on ignore? I can, but I'd rather not as when you're not engaged in this petty nonsense you all to varying degree make some interesting points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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