Question Re. Billy Allan

[Steven H]

What the hell are you talking about, exactly?

 

In the past week, prompted by Mr Beattie's ambiguous programme notes - I seem to remember a rather impecunious poster saying something similar on an internet forum not miles away from this one - I have asked if we should be considering going part time and whether the fans would accept that, whether the kids go free scheme should be scrapped and whether people believe Dundee's punishment will have a knock on affect should we find ourselves needing extricated from the brown stuff.

 

Where are the riddles? Where is the paranoia? Do you think these are all trivial matters, designed with the sole purpose of stirring that don't deserve discussion? Or do you accept - referring to said programme notes - that they are issues we should be facing up to as fans of an ailing club?

 

As for scrapping the Kids Go Free scheme, well I think it's the one area were Partick Thistle are leading the way in Scottish football, would need to compare figures before this scheme and after it to see how it is impacting on Club finanaces and we don't have access to them...so it's a mute point imo.

 

The part time poll is relevant and I aint referring to that, but imo your post's on the Dundee thread and this one leave me a bit baffled, I'm not sure if you are a Dundee symapthiser or not. Im not sure if you're trying to play devil's advocate. My confusion regarding your point in this thread has already been answered.

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Billy Allan's involvement in Dunfermline's stadia company has nothing to do with his involvement in the Jags because he has a personal interest in us (as a supporter)

Right. Best intentions and all that, huh?

[GrantB]

The pack's merely been reshuffled. We've seen that this week.

 

I believe your wife's French, Grant, so this next phrase should be familiar to you: plus ca change.

 

Billy Allan's involvement in Dunfermline's stadia company has nothing to do with his involvement in the Jags because he has a personal interest in us (as a supporter)

 

I am not saying you cannot excercise caution but we have to give these guys a chance.

 

As for your analogy, Cowan & Hughes are no longer in the positions of power that they held previously. I'm not happy that they are still there though.

[Steven H]

 

Did you see fit to ignore this part of my post:

 

 

 

I believe Mr Allan was involved in Stadia Properties. To what extent I don't know. That's what I'm attempting to fathom.

 

All I know about him is he's apparently a life-long Thistle fan who only, in the eyes of most of us, appeared on the scene when a money making opportunity arrose. Was it the same scenario, ignoring the part about fandom, with Stadia Properties, a venture that went tits up causing Dunfermline some angst?

 

But if you're happy that all this has been covered before, then fine.

 

So you are scandal mongering then? I haven't saw fit to ignore any of your posts in this thread but you are trying to find information on something that happened 7 years ago and trying to link Billy Allan to it....then you can link it to PTFC. So what is your point? Because he see's a money-making opportunity that will also help the Club (allegedly) he supports, he is going to...what?

 

What angst did Dunfermline have regarding this compnay going bust? From what I've read, they have a cast iron lease that wont be affected by any sale of EEP because the 'new owners' would need to honour that lease. Was there an attempt to sell EEP?

[Steven H]

Eh? You're reading too many of Grant's posts. I'm worried their situation may influence any judgement made on any team that faces future financial ruin. Again, I think that's clear enough.

 

Ok so you mean like a precedent being set? Like with Livi

[GrantB]

Billy Allan was approached by the BoD at the offset of PropCo and invited to invest.

 

He is to my knowledge, an old schoolfriend of Jim Alexander and a lifelong Jags fan.

 

By the way, other than this info, that is all I know of the guy. I think a healthy dose of cynicism is probably sensible. I have never been a fan of PropCo but I also want the club still to be here in the next 100 years.

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Ok so you mean like a precedent being set? Like with Livi

What, you mean Livingston, the club that entered the process of formal liquidation, as opposed to administration?

Edited December 18, 2010 by The Incredible Adam Spark

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

I also want the club still to be here in the next 100 years.

And, at last we find some common ground.

[GrantB]

What, you mean Livingston, the club that entered the process of formal liquidation, as opposed to administration?

 

Both Livingston and Gretna were relegated 2 divisions. Livi never got as far as liquidation. They were, however, repeat offenders. It was their 3rd time!

[Steven H]

What, you mean Livingston, the club that entered the process of formal liquidation, as opposed to administration?

 

Oh right, so that's why they were relegated to Div 3? You better get onto the meeja about that because in discussions regarding Dundee everyone is comparing it to situations with other Clubs (mainly Livingston and Gretna). Anyway, that's a seperate discussion, you seeing fit to ignore post 29?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

What the hell are you talking about, exactly?

 

In the past week, prompted by Mr Beattie's ambiguous programme notes - I seem to remember a rather impecunious poster saying something similar on an internet forum not miles away from this one - I have asked if we should be considering going part time and whether the fans would accept that, whether the kids go free scheme should be scrapped and whether people believe Dundee's punishment will have a knock on affect should we find ourselves needing extricated from the brown stuff.

 

Where are the riddles? Where is the paranoia? Do you think these are all trivial matters, designed with the sole purpose of stirring that don't deserve discussion? Or do you accept - referring to said programme notes - that they are issues we should be facing up to as fans of an ailing club?

You do ask a lot of questions. Nothing wrong with that of course

[Trotter]

I'm kind of with Adam on this one.

 

Propco stinks, that is the one thing we all agree on I think.

 

I made a comment on one of the other threads- think it was Dundee's punishment- but i'll repeat it on here in a different manner.

 

Allan, Beattie etc are Thistle fans, fair enough. They are also (correct me if i'm wrong) relatively successful businessmen?

 

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but you don't make money in business without taking out a few others in the process. I think the phrase is 'sell your granny for a profit'.

 

Mr Beattie has come out this week and said the club needs £100k to survive to/beyond the end of the season.

 

Now my question is this, and I don't know the answer but with Propco benefitting certain folk on the board i'd take an educated guess.

 

IF we don't get the money required, who on here thinks Beattie, Allan etc will put their hands in their own pockets to keep the club afloat? After all it was said with the £100k the future is bright! Am I being overly cynical/paranoid?

[1 John Lambie]

I suppose they're trying to find out how much we can raise as a fanbase, I would hope if we raised say £80k that they as a board would fund the rest. But some of is falling on the fans, & I think that is right. Yes, we alot during the season, but when times are hard we're going to have to pay a bit more. This board aren't going to be able to ask for money from the fans every season, lets try our best to raise it & hopefully the future will be bright, as Beattie says.

[stolenscone]

IF we don't get the money required, who on here thinks Beattie, Allan etc will put their hands in their own pockets to keep the club afloat?

 

OK Trots, I'll play along. I don't think anyone would advocate the Bookes Mileson / Callum Melville school of running a football club. I'm sure that we'd all much rather that we spent no more than we earned and that there was still a football club here for our grand kids to enjoy - I certainly would.

 

But if it comes to the bit and the directors dip into their pockets to keep the club going until the end of the season, will that change your views? If not, what will?

 

(ps keen to avoid this turning into another tiresome "superfan" debate, which is not at all my intention.)

[yoda-jag]

I'm kind of with Adam on this one.

 

Propco stinks, that is the one thing we all agree on I think.

 

I made a comment on one of the other threads- think it was Dundee's punishment- but i'll repeat it on here in a different manner.

 

Allan, Beattie etc are Thistle fans, fair enough. They are also (correct me if i'm wrong) relatively successful businessmen?

 

Now, correct me if i'm wrong but you don't make money in business without taking out a few others in the process. I think the phrase is 'sell your granny for a profit'.

 

Mr Beattie has come out this week and said the club needs £100k to survive to/beyond the end of the season.

 

Now my question is this, and I don't know the answer but with Propco benefitting certain folk on the board i'd take an educated guess.

 

IF we don't get the money required, who on here thinks Beattie, Allan etc will put their hands in their own pockets to keep the club afloat? After all it was said with the £100k the future is bright! Am I being overly cynical/paranoid?

 

And i'll join you Trotter.

 

Agree pretty much with every single word of the above.

 

Like I said earlier in thread, chapswithwings doing a open interview like was supposed to happen with Cowan, with Beattie and Allan, would be beneficial imo.

 

I've also said it before, and i'll say it again - i'd like to know Messers Beattie and Allan's genuine intentions and plans for the club - not just for the season, or even Propco, but how far they will go to ensure PTFC is here in 100 years time - and whether they would dismantle Propco if other means of selfsustaining can be found.

 

But as we supporters are only little minions, we probably would never get told the whole truth (if any of it), just the continued flannel we are so used to, but it would be nice for them to go on record and state to what extents they are prepared to go to guarantee their intentions are honourable and whether Firhill can be retained in as much of its current form as possible, or what Plan B's they have, should we think of moving, that they have in mind.

 

Yes, the 3 main bumbling buffoons have gone (and not before time) been shifted sidestage, and B&A are the two main public faces of the club board now, and while i'm glad the 3 bb's (appear to) have less influence or say in the day-to-day running of the club, doesn't mean i am comfortable with our two new 'leaders' calling all the shots and making all the decisions (and while they may be two successful businessmen (in their chosen fields), a football club is not like a traditional business where you basically set out to make as much money and profit as you can) and i won't be entirely comfortable with, or trusting of, them - at least until a time as i know their intentions are true, in the best interests of the club, and not simply their own personal business interests and bank balances.

 

Put it another way - if any of you reading this, was in charge of Thistle, wouldn't you wish to reassure the fans of your intentions (even if you didn't have a conflict of interests?) and reach out and be completely honest with the supporters, ultimately your customer base and main source of income?

 

So i think it's fair of Adam to ask probing questions in this instance (as much as i disagreed with his stance on the Dundee scenario for instance), regardless of B&A being Jags fans (after all, weren't the 3 bb's?).

[McKennan]

Would Mr Spark rather have Cowan & Hughes back in charge?

 

 

Who is in charge these days?

[Trotter]

It definitely would change my opinion but at this moment I can't help thinking that the fans are being asked again to dig deep to save their club whilst the current custodians are sitting in a potential win/win situation. The future is bright says Mr Beattie, if we raise this money. If we don't will Mr Beattie, Mr Allan and other members of Propco be losing sleep over it.

 

Not sure what the minimum investment in Propco was but the Trust/fans were never invited on board. Am I right in saying that? Why not after all joint major shareholders after last Save The Jags? Or is that my paranoia again?

 

In 1998 we as fans dug deep and believed Mr Hughes when he said the club would never get in that position again.

 

Here we are again. The last incumbants sold off bits and pieces of the ground and the money raised still has us in this position. This time the businessmen in charge have half the ground in their name with the other half on first refusal. You can't balme me for being cynical.

[McKennan]

But if it comes to the bit and the directors dip into their pockets to keep the club going until the end of the season, will that change your views? If not, what will?

 

 

I'm sure most of us will do our damnedest to see the club remains, fans and directors. However, riddle me this - what happens if we don't make up the shortfall? Administration? Closure? Part-time football? Our propco knights charging to the rescue of the club in exchange for the other half of Firhill?

 

All speculation, you understand. Other than David B telling us we're in the dooh-dooh and Billy not deigning to address the troops, this kind of speculation flourishes and we don't have the luxury of tea and biccies with the board anymore.

 

To develop one of Adam Spark's themes, if Billy Allan had an interest in Stadia way back did he ever raise the issue of Stadia working with Thistle? What has this got to do with propco? Nothing. Are people curious about our club's benefactor? You bet.

[1 John Lambie]

Who is in charge these days?

 

Beattie & Allan.

[Fellow Traveller]

I don't know if Billy Allan had some connection to this thing or, if he did, whether it means much. Maybe, maybe not.

 

But we're in a situation where at the end of September the outgoing chairman was claiming with a straight face to the papers that his legacy was stability and in December we're led to believe (and I believe it 100%) that the club's very existence is in serious doubt if the fans can't rustle up £100,000 in about five months, at a time when most of us are seriously skint. Our future is still in jeopardy even if we do.

 

So rattle your cans and bring out the collecting buckets by all means, but there is no more important time than right now to be asking serious questions about anyone who wants to control the club's fate.

[javeajag]

I don't know if Billy Allan had some connection to this thing or, if he did, whether it means much. Maybe, maybe not.

 

But we're in a situation where at the end of September the outgoing chairman was claiming with a straight face to the papers that his legacy was stability and in December we're led to believe (and I believe it 100%) that the club's very existence is in serious doubt if the fans can't rustle up £100,000 in about five months, at a time when most of us are seriously skint. Our future is still in jeopardy even if we do.

 

So rattle your cans and bring out the collecting buckets by all means, but there is no more important time than right now to be asking serious questions about anyone who wants to control the club's fate.

Billy Allan currently trying yo raise 150k for ptfc by the end of the season and one idea is for 150 people to invest £1000 each.....

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Billy Allan currently trying yo raise 150k for ptfc by the end of the season and one idea is for 150 people to invest £1000 each.....

Is this the "unique" scheme David Beattie referred to? What will the investors get in return? The PropCo guys were handed half a stdium for their troubles.

[Steven H]

I don't know if Billy Allan had some connection to this thing or, if he did, whether it means much. Maybe, maybe not.

 

But we're in a situation where at the end of September the outgoing chairman was claiming with a straight face to the papers that his legacy was stability and in December we're led to believe (and I believe it 100%) that the club's very existence is in serious doubt if the fans can't rustle up £100,000 in about five months, at a time when most of us are seriously skint. Our future is still in jeopardy even if we do.

 

So rattle your cans and bring out the collecting buckets by all means, but there is no more important time than right now to be asking serious questions about anyone who wants to control the club's fate.

 

Totally agree which is why I pressed Adam Spark to get to the point instead of hinting at stuff. So, lets say the questions asked in this thread...mainly by me in post no 29 (which I think are the questions Adam was hinting at)...get answered, what will it prove in relation to Billy Allan's current involvement with our Club?

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Totally agree which is why I pressed Adam Spark to get to the point instead of hinting at stuff. So, lets say the questions asked in this thread...mainly by me in post no 29 (which I think are the questions Adam was hinting at)...get answered, what will it prove in relation to Billy Allan's current involvement with our Club?

Let's all stand aside for the great seeker of truth, eh?

 

If it comes to light that Mr Allan was heavily involved in a business that bought a football stadium before going into administration then I don't think he's the appropriate person to be running Partick Thistle FC. There we go, I've made a point. Now, until the silent puller of strings actually comes out and says something himself then we're not going to know a. about his past history of business and b. his plans for PTFC.

 

In saying all that, this conversation appears to have taken a new twist. I really hope javeajag expands on his post rather than throwing us a tidbit. For instance, if this £150,000 is raised, what measure will be put in place to ensure we aren't facing the same prospect 12 months down the line.

 

I want to read about long-term solutions, not short-term strategies.

[The Incredible Adam Spark]

Plus, if this is the scheme, then it's going to explude a lot of PT punters who simply can't afford £1k. Is the board/its helpers organising something that the ordinary man in the street can feel part of?

Edited December 19, 2010 by The Incredible Adam Spark