Scottlish Elections

[Guy Incognito]

A fabulous result for the SNP yesterday. I could never have envisaged that Anniesland would have voted anything other than Labour; absolutely delighted! I'm still on cloud nine.

 

Nothing else to say at this point, except:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:party2: :party2:

[hamiltonjag]

And shortly after the independence vote Poland will be full of Scottish plumbers.

[jaggybunnet]

And shortly after the independence vote Poland will be full of Scottish plumbers.

 

 

LOL

[B.C.G. JAG]

The SNP are benefiting from a perfect storm - Scotland will always reject the Tories after what Maggie did to the country, the Libs should have joined a coalition of opposition to the Tories rather than enabling them and Labour lost their soul with obstruction in the parliament and an abandonment of the core values. The SNP are mopping it all up.

 

However, Labour have doubly screwed this one up by arrogantly putting all their 'big guns' (laughable, I know) on the constituency vote which entirely backfired for them. Now the opposition to the SNP will be almost all parliamentary virgins, unknown to the public and certainly not even rated by their own party - weak and ineffective.

 

If Salmond plays this right, governs responsibly up here whilst the Tories plunge the UK further and further back into the dark ages, and Scottish Labour are left floundering on the sidelines, then he's got a the chance of a lifetime to actually get a result on independence.

 

Sadly, the only thing that's probably standing in their way is the west of scotland affection for union jacks and irish tricolours over scottish saltires.

[Jaggernaut]

And shortly after the independence vote Poland will be full of Scottish plumbers.

You mean those that haven't already emigrated! The "benefits" of the union have been so great that throughout the last century tens if not hundreds of thousands of Scots have decided that they'd be better off elsewhere!

 

It's not going to be simple to stop that long-established rot, but hopefully the new government can continue to make Scots more proud of their country and forge a better society.

Edited May 7, 2011 by Jaggernaut

[Jaggernaut]

The SNP are benefiting from a perfect storm - Scotland will always reject the Tories after what Maggie did to the country, the Libs should have joined a coalition of opposition to the Tories rather than enabling them and Labour lost their soul with obstruction in the parliament and an abandonment of the core values. The SNP are mopping it all up.

 

However, Labour have doubly screwed this one up by arrogantly putting all their 'big guns' (laughable, I know) on the constituency vote which entirely backfired for them. Now the opposition to the SNP will be almost all parliamentary virgins, unknown to the public and certainly not even rated by their own party - weak and ineffective.

 

If Salmond plays this right, governs responsibly up here whilst the Tories plunge the UK further and further back into the dark ages, and Scottish Labour are left floundering on the sidelines, then he's got a the chance of a lifetime to actually get a result on independence.

 

Sadly, the only thing that's probably standing in their way is the west of scotland affection for union jacks and irish tricolours over scottish saltires.

Some good points there. Actually, I think that Scotland's disillusionment with Labour really started to grow when Blair changed the Labour Party into something very like the Tory party, and they've shown no real desire to change that.

[Phoenix]

The best thing about the results has been the silence from Woodstock Jag

[Blackpool Jags]

A bit of a dust-up, apparently, on Coalition Street. Lib Dem peer, Baroness Tonge, was on the news earlier lamenting the degree to which her party had been snuggling up to the Tories, since the pact, particularly on issues like tuition fees. She then, quite comically, went on to add that her party now needs to toughen up and learn to say NO to the Tories, and that they should assert their independence by proving that they can stop the Tories' attempts to privatise the Health Service! Oh, and that the Lib Dems really are the party who are against student tuition fees!!

 

Their fragmentation isn't really my problem, but might I politely suggest that they meet up and have a chat with one another; naughty Nick will be singularly displeased with the matriarch's musings as he vows to soldier on within the coalition to deliver "the strong united government that the country needs". Uh oh.

[Guy Incognito]

You mean those that haven't already emigrated! The "benefits" of the union have been so great that throughout the last century tens if not hundreds of thousands of Scots have decided that they'd be better off elsewhere!

 

It's not going to be simple to stop that long-established rot, but hopefully the new government can continue to make Scots more proud of their country and forge a better society.

Brilliant post, absolutely spot on.

 

It is amazing how few people this actually seems to register with.

[twinny]

The thing is, the SNP in the Scottish Government don't have the power to declare independence; even with a referendum it is down to the Westminster parliament and David Cameron, who has said he will fight to keep the UK together. The Tories are a big reason why Scotland has voted SNP, however it is the Tories that will prevent the matter going any further.

 

The proposed referendum would ask about the extension of the Scottish Goverment to receive additional powers (devolution max) and also if the Scottish Goverment should be given the power to declare independence. I imagine the second question would still need ratified by Westminster, which is unlikely to happen, though the SNP would pile pressure on them. I can imagine the tories trying the Callaghan line, suggesting the British people as a whole should be included in such a referendum, and not just the Scottish electorate.

[Woodstock Jag]

The best thing about the results has been the silence from Woodstock Jag

 

I had an exam today, hence my general absence from the forum the last few days.

 

No denying it was a pretty awful result from a Lib Dem perspective, but nationally it was absolutely brilliant to see the Slimeball Express that is the Scottish Labour Party absolutely slaughtered.

 

I've never understood the Lib Dem policy to an independence referendum. We're supposed to be democrats. Supporting a referendum, but making the case for greater local control within the existing set-up.

[Woodstock Jag]

The thing is, the SNP in the Scottish Government don't have the power to declare independence; even with a referendum it is down to the Westminster parliament and David Cameron, who has said he will fight to keep the UK together. The Tories are a big reason why Scotland has voted SNP, however it is the Tories that will prevent the matter going any further.

 

The proposed referendum would ask about the extension of the Scottish Goverment to receive additional powers (devolution max) and also if the Scottish Goverment should be given the power to declare independence. I imagine the second question would still need ratified by Westminster, which is unlikely to happen, though the SNP would pile pressure on them. I can imagine the tories trying the Callaghan line, suggesting the British people as a whole should be included in such a referendum, and not just the Scottish electorate.

 

Nothing (in theory) to stop the SNP going down the route of UDI but in practice they won't do that and they would have had to rely on a lot of other countries recognising Scotland as a sovereign state. If there is a referendum and Scotland votes yes, it would be a complete and utter gift by Westminster if they dug their heels in and refused to recognise the will of the Scottish people. The SNP vote would rocket and the powers that be down at Westminster would be portrayed in a very poor light.

[Blackpool Jags]

it was absolutely brilliant to see the Slimeball Express that is the Scottish Labour Party absolutely slaughtered.

 

We're supposed to be democrats.

 

I'm really glad you weren't disappointed. Let's pretend, for the moment, that the gLib Dems did very well in Thursday's elections.

 

Yes, you're supposed to be democrats. That'll be why your shower are throwing their electoral mandate, wholeheartedly, behind secret policies like the abhorrent Health & Social Care bill - something which appeals only to Tory extremists and fruitcake libertarians - and the well-publicised Lib Dem policy of supporting spectacular hikes in student tuition fees.

 

The most important thing, at the present time, is that naughty Nick is still newsworthy.

 

Oh, sorry, I was just about to click the 'Add Reply' button when I remembered a little nugget, from earlier today by one of naughty Nicky's senior buddies.

 

"Vince Cable has described his coalition colleagues in the Conservative Party as "ruthless, calculating and tribal."

 

Uh oh.

[Woodstock Jag]

I'm really glad you weren't disappointed. Let's pretend, for the moment, that the gLib Dems did very well in Thursday's elections.

 

Eh, no. I was hugely disappointed at our election turn-out. But it was, to a significant extent, expected. Things have been worse, and they'll get better. None of that changes that Labour took a beating and that it's brilliant to see Scotland, especially the central belt, finally waking up to the reality that there is more to politics than the inept, self-serving, authoritarian and cringeworthy nonsense that is the set of monkeys the Scottish Labour Party pins rosettes to.

 

Yes, you're supposed to be democrats. That'll be why your shower are throwing their electoral mandate, wholeheartedly, behind secret policies like the abhorrent Health & Social Care bill - something which appeals only to Tory extremists and fruitcake libertarians - and the well-publicised Lib Dem policy of supporting spectacular hikes in student tuition fees.

 

Uh no. The whole reason the H&SC bill hasn't gone through the Commons quickly is because of the absolute opposite. Many Lib Dem MPs have concerns about the structural accountability of the new mechanisms and want them bolstered. What you ignore, of course, is that the Lib Dems actually pledged to get rid of PCTs in their manifesto and that this is nothing like privatisation of the health service. It's an internal market of services to tender.

 

And then your bollocks about supporting "spectacular" hikes in student tuition fees. Look at the detail. The fee means nothing. It's the repayment scheme that matters, and it's leaving the bottom quartile paying less. How a progressive can oppose the richest graduates paying more for their publicly provided education astonishes me.

 

Oh, sorry, I was just about to click the 'Add Reply' button when I remembered a little nugget, from earlier today by one of naughty Nicky's senior buddies.

 

"Vince Cable has described his coalition colleagues in the Conservative Party as "ruthless, calculating and tribal."

 

Uh oh.

 

Well they are. Point?

[The Devil's Point]

I'm really glad you weren't disappointed. Let's pretend, for the moment, that the gLib Dems did very well in Thursday's elections.

 

Yes, you're supposed to be democrats. That'll be why your shower are throwing their electoral mandate, wholeheartedly, behind secret policies like the abhorrent Health & Social Care bill - something which appeals only to Tory extremists and fruitcake libertarians - and the well-publicised Lib Dem policy of supporting spectacular hikes in student tuition fees.

 

The most important thing, at the present time, is that naughty Nick is still newsworthy.

 

Oh, sorry, I was just about to click the 'Add Reply' button when I remembered a little nugget, from earlier today by one of naughty Nicky's senior buddies.

 

"Vince Cable has described his coalition colleagues in the Conservative Party as "ruthless, calculating and tribal."

 

Uh oh.

 

You've a cheek to be sarcy about the Lib Dems after your own embarassing election campaign and results.

 

Woodstock Jag is right to be happy that the Labour Party has finally, and forever, lost control of its inner city bastions. Consituencies where the Labour Party members and representatives have sat back and allowed their communities to rot for decades and have allowed people to live in environments generating some of the worst health records in the western world.

Edited May 7, 2011 by The Devil's Point

[Phoenix]

You've a cheek to be sarcy about the Lib Dems after your own embarassing election campaign and results.

 

Woodstock Jag is right to be happy that the Labour Party has finally, and forever, lost control of its inner city bastions. Consituencies where the Labour Party members and representatives have sat back and allowed their communities to rot for decades and have allowed people to live in environments generating some of the worst health records in the western world.

As bad as Labour did on Thursday at least they don't have to get a boat to visit their only non list MSPs.

[Woodstock Jag]

As bad as Labour did on Thursday at least they don't have to get a boat to visit their only non list MSPs.

 

Neither do the Lib Dems. We don't sink. We can swim.

[Blackpool Jags]

You've a cheek to be sarcy about the Lib Dems after your own embarassing election campaign and results.

 

 

It's my duty you know.

 

Being totally honest, we have been an embarrassment in Scotland for as long as I can remember. The national leadership has failed miserably to raise the appeal level of the typical Councillor/MSP/MP for far too long now. We need to come more into line with the calibre of representative in England, such as that is. It's maybe due to the fact that disenchanted candidates and good ordinary members don't have an SNP to turn to, when the going gets rough, that we manage to hold onto some decent ones.

 

Nice to see us regaining control of so many councils (down here), although I'd happily have taken more of those gains from the Tories than the atomised gLib Dems.

[Blackpool Jags]

Neither do the Lib Dems. We don't sink. We can swim.

 

Honestly?

[The Devil's Point]

Honestly?

 

We'll be back

 

 

 

Nothing like a good election

[Blackpool Jags]

We'll be back

 

 

 

Nothing like a good election

 

[Jaggernaut]

The thing is, the SNP in the Scottish Government don't have the power to declare independence; even with a referendum it is down to the Westminster parliament and David Cameron, who has said he will fight to keep the UK together. The Tories are a big reason why Scotland has voted SNP, however it is the Tories that will prevent the matter going any further.

 

The proposed referendum would ask about the extension of the Scottish Goverment to receive additional powers (devolution max) and also if the Scottish Goverment should be given the power to declare independence. I imagine the second question would still need ratified by Westminster, which is unlikely to happen, though the SNP would pile pressure on them. I can imagine the tories trying the Callaghan line, suggesting the British people as a whole should be included in such a referendum, and not just the Scottish electorate.

It would be the ultimate irony, wouldn't it, if the UK, always among the first to promote independence for just about every other state that has wanted to regain independence (e.g., the ex Soviet countries, the ex Yugoslav countries), actually tried to block the Scottish people from asserting their will for independence (if that's what indeed the people voted for). And don't forget, the Scottish people never voted for the union, a fact which many people conveniently forget or choose to ignore.

Edited May 8, 2011 by Jaggernaut

[jaggybunnet]

It would be the ultimate irony, wouldn't it, if the UK, always among the first to promote independence for just about every other state that has wanted to regain independence (e.g., the ex Soviet countries, the ex Yugoslav countries), actually tried to block the Scottish people from asserting their will for independence (if that's what indeed the people voted for). And don't forget, the Scottish people never voted for the union, a fact which many people conveniently forget or choose to ignore.

 

 

that because they majority wanted independance in those countries, if snp put it the vote now they would lose which is why he is bluffing at the moment and when it eventualy comes it will be similer to the av vote.

[Jaggernaut]

that because they majority wanted independance in those countries, if snp put it the vote now they would lose which is why he is bluffing at the moment and when it eventualy comes it will be similer to the av vote.

You must be extremely knowledgeable about the electorate. Did you predict the results of the Scottish election earlier this week?

[jaggybunnet]

You must be extremely knowledgeable about the electorate. Did you predict the results of the Scottish election earlier this week?

 

as with the av vote yes, not saying i was happy but knew (not by how much though) they would win.