A New Supporters Body

[Steven H]

Still can't see why we can't have this with the JT. Why would the people who would be involved in a new supporters association not be prepared to do the exact same thing as they have in mind under the umbrella of the Jags Trust? I've supported Lady Isobels idea of a two-pronged Trust since he she first mentioned it.

 

The Jags Trust is what it is because we have all allowed it to go that way, I see no reason why a new supporters association would not go the same way. The problems with the JT are fixable if we want to fix them, and imo that would be better than running away from those problems.

[Willjag]

Tobe fair, the Trust have in the past tried to set up a fund raising arm. I along with Campbell Hughes, Brian McKigen, Greig Forbes and Tom Hosie ran it for around a year until Allan Cowan stuck his oar in and Pissed me off, the rest ran out of enthusiasm also for one reason or another and it died a death. I was asked to go back again and do it, but I'd sorta fell out with the Trust over their lack of support for my Niece and with how easily they were happy to give away the Centenary Fund.

 

It's worrying that good folk have tried to change things for the better and always ended up quitting. I do think things are changing a bit and there are a lot of new faces in the current Trust but they do seem to lack that get up and go.

 

So, for a start, keep the Trust and I think I mentioned this the last time we done this a few weeks or so back, but yes, a seperate fundraising group for a start. But it would really need the support of the fan base. Too many events in the past have been scarcely attended. A seperate branch just to handle the shares, probably just consisting of a secretary, treasurer and a membership secretary. I like Honved's idea of no membership fee. I tend to think that something along the lines of an online Club would work best in this scenario. Perhaps an opt-in through this site to become a Jags Trust Member with a monthly email letting members know of any upcoming events etc.

 

I used to think that a the fans needed someone on the Board, I'm not so sure anymore. However I wuld like to see the Board have someone that they would liase with on a regular (monthly) basis with detail to take back to the Trust Members so that it looked inclusive for a change.

 

I'm sure there is much more, but off the top of my head, that's all I can think of at the moment, but don't be discouraged Fred and well done for taking an interest. Having chatted with the site owners about this recently, i'm sure they would be happy to help in any way they can.

[Norgethistle]

The trust in my opinion has way too much baggage to be effective and engaging with the wide body of support, everything seems to lead to a place at the top table. Set a new body up, more a fans club for social and fundraising events, make it fun, forget the politics and from the cash raised put it towards the one thing we all care deeply about, our club Partick Thistle FC, runs a 5 aside team, a darts team fishing trips anything that keeps the fans in contact with other fans and maybe brings ex fans back in to the frame for social events then get going back to the games with there re aquainted freinds and fellow jags fans. Make it fun wide reaching and folk will join in, let the trust keep its coffee mornings and politics and the the new body can go fishing/darts/football/quizes anything and have a laugh and raise some funds for the club

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Still can't see why we can't have this with the JT. Why would the people who would be involved in a new supporters association not be prepared to do the exact same thing as they have in mind under the umbrella of the Jags Trust? I've supported Lady Isobels idea of a two-pronged Trust since he she first mentioned it.

 

The Jags Trust is what it is because we have all allowed it to go that way, I see no reason why a new supporters association would not go the same way. The problems with the JT are fixable if we want to fix them, and imo that would be better than running away from those problems.

Trouble is that that the JT may be too tarnished by now and too many potential members of a fans club would be put off by association. Certainly every week that goes by the negativity surrounding the Trust appears to increase.

I suppose there's nothing much to stop a completely independent supporters club being formed and sometime later amalgamating/joining/uniting with the Trust. That may be something that would make complete sense sometime in the future but has little appeal to prospective members of a fans club at this point in time.

[Julie Ann]

Trouble is that that the JT may be too tarnished by now and too many potential members of a fans club would be put off by association. Certainly every week that goes by the negativity surrounding the Trust appears to increase.

I suppose there's nothing much to stop a completely independent supporters club being formed and sometime later amalgamating/joining/uniting with the Trust. That may be something that would make complete sense sometime in the future but has little appeal to prospective members of a fans club at this point in time.

like the centenary fund?

[lady-isobel-barnett]

like the centenary fund?

Eh, no.

[McKennan]

Got it in a nutshell.

 

So....

 

If there was to be a new fans body that simply came into being out of nowhere, here's what I'd like it to be that is different from what we have at the moment.

 

A clear split between club politics and fundraising. Folk who want to argue with the board about the prices of drinks in the Aitken Suite on one side and folk who want to pitch in, buy the paint and redecorate the Aitken Suite on a Sunday afternoon on the other. Same umbrella, supporters who care about the club, but you can choose what part of the umbrella you stand under.

 

No membership fee and expenditure on administration kept to the lowest possible level.

 

No faff about shares. Joining in is an extension of going on a Saturday. You do it because you want to and you enjoy it. Billy Allan doesn't haves shares in the club, but he's hugely influential. The fans together should have that same leverage. We put in hundreds of thousands of pounds a year.

 

I'm sure there's more...

 

 

I kind of agree with this, Tam. Trouble is, you're never going to keep politics and fundraising apart. The simple solution is no fundraisers for the club. You get 100 Jags fans, you'll get 100 good causes that could do with a few bob from well-meaning supporters. Fans' fundraisers for fans' causes. We're not learning the lessons of the past decade - the club doesn't really want fan input that asks questions. It's giving us all headaches anyway.

 

Low admin costs - that's an axiom. No faff about shares - I'll go with that, but it doesn't mean that a fans' association should sit idly by on issues that matter. The fans are influential, yes. Thing is, we don't seem to realise it.

 

Our fanbase, as far as I can see at games, is getting older. Any organisation should recognise this. That also means our fanbase is probably not as web-savvy as the contributors to this forum, so it means going out and talking to people. One of the supporters organisations I know in the US has reps who'll spend matchdays talking to fans - a million miles away from raging at people on the web.

 

A fans' association should be taking care of the club's heritage, for instance. If any of the Jagscast folk read this - how about talking to our senior fans sometime for your podcast? Family histories, collections, more books like Niall and Tom have written, more photo collections, talks, regular piss-ups, film nights. Does anyone want to sit and the Mitchell and go through the newspaper microfiche collection for match reports and news - a Thistle opus?

 

Finally, may I suggest a forum swally sometime? It makes a hell of a difference talking to people.

[Wee Gus]

In response to the original post, Yes cheesecloth man, I think there may be room for a separate supporters group to be established, however, the people who's voice may want to be recognised is not on this particluar forum. many may indeed not have internet facilities, or choose not to be involved in this kind of repetitive debate.

I've never been asked to join any of the forementioned groups, and I genuinely have no knowledge of what they all stand for, or hope to achieve. ( My first game was in 1976, and I'm 43 now). I reckon that most of the Jags hard core support( and due to work commitments I dont include myself in that) would be happy to have a voice that they could identify with, have a beer with, tell everyone who the were, where they'd be, would be happy to see that at least they knew others thought the same, and it was getting heard by the club.

It would all depend on what agenda the new group had, but an organised voice has my full support.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

Tried to read through all of this and put together some form of response.

 

It would be get if we could just have a supporters club, offering a voice to the fans, fundraising, having maybe one or two 'big' trips a season, having simple meet and greet sessions with each other/players/managers.

 

I do not feel that there is any need or point in trying to create a trust mark 2. I will let the Trust drumbeat about shares/board representation, I would prefer to have a few reps, an open forum to discuss with the representatives, fundraising and passing money to the club, some FUN. I feel that so many are disillusioned with the Trust because they have wrapped themselves up in the things that many will want to get away from at the football - regulation/shares/seriousness. I want to see something a lot more fun.

 

If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear it? Would prefer it stayed away from the rust and focussed on the fans.

[Norgethistle]

Tried to read through all of this and put together some form of response.

 

It would be get if we could just have a supporters club, offering a voice to the fans, fundraising, having maybe one or two 'big' trips a season, having simple meet and greet sessions with each other/players/managers.

 

I do not feel that there is any need or point in trying to create a trust mark 2. I will let the Trust drumbeat about shares/board representation, I would prefer to have a few reps, an open forum to discuss with the representatives, fundraising and passing money to the club, some FUN. I feel that so many are disillusioned with the Trust because they have wrapped themselves up in the things that many will want to get away from at the football - regulation/shares/seriousness. I want to see something a lot more fun.

 

If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear it? Would prefer it stayed away from the rust and focussed on the fans.

 

Completely agree, sign me up :thumbsup2:

[twinny]

Tried to read through all of this and put together some form of response.

 

It would be get if we could just have a supporters club, offering a voice to the fans, fundraising, having maybe one or two 'big' trips a season, having simple meet and greet sessions with each other/players/managers.

 

I do not feel that there is any need or point in trying to create a trust mark 2. I will let the Trust drumbeat about shares/board representation, I would prefer to have a few reps, an open forum to discuss with the representatives, fundraising and passing money to the club, some FUN. I feel that so many are disillusioned with the Trust because they have wrapped themselves up in the things that many will want to get away from at the football - regulation/shares/seriousness. I want to see something a lot more fun.

 

If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear it? Would prefer it stayed away from the rust and focussed on the fans.

 

To me that just sounds like an extended version of this website into a 'club' form with social extensions.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

If that is what it came to be, which I really doubt it would, would that be a problem?

 

Getting Thistle fans together FACE TO FACE, not hiding behind keywords. Getting a buzz going about certain things like fundraising, raising some money in the process...

[MerryHell]

I've always suspected the board were planning a way to have greater fan engagement/interaction and in doing so circumvent the current trust and make them more meaningless. We've been promised a new fans initiative for long enough, seen the bridge in a fancy t-shirt but there's never been any real explanation of what it's all about. I have no idea what 'Forever Thistle' or whatever it's to be called will be about but i'm sure, if the next EGM vote passes, we might find out sooner rather than later.

I appreciate you might not want to hang around waiting forever, but it would be interesting to find out what the club have planned before spending too much time and energy on what might become a meaningless project.

This isn't supposed to be negative - I fully agree that something has to change.

[ian_mac]

We can forget the trust, it's dead. The same people who wrecked it the first time have been allowed to wreck it again from what I can see.

 

A new supporters body? I just don't think we have the numbers.

 

If you look at the crowds and where the club is just now, it's probably similar to the dark days of the mid to late 80s, before lambie came.

 

Did we have any kind of supporters association back then? Would be good to find out

[Munkey]

Tried to read through all of this and put together some form of response.

 

It would be get if we could just have a supporters club, offering a voice to the fans, fundraising, having maybe one or two 'big' trips a season, having simple meet and greet sessions with each other/players/managers.

 

I do not feel that there is any need or point in trying to create a trust mark 2. I will let the Trust drumbeat about shares/board representation, I would prefer to have a few reps, an open forum to discuss with the representatives, fundraising and passing money to the club, some FUN. I feel that so many are disillusioned with the Trust because they have wrapped themselves up in the things that many will want to get away from at the football - regulation/shares/seriousness. I want to see something a lot more fun.

 

If anyone has anything else to add I would love to hear it? Would prefer it stayed away from the rust and focussed on the fans.

 

Something like upcoming 1971 night is exactly the kind of Gig a new group would be putting together.

 

The new supporter’s club key role and objective should be to bring the Club and the Fans closer. Remind the club who their supporters are and how much the whole place means to us, and keeping supporters involved with a clear and regular communication between the board, the management, some players, and the fans so they feel part of the club. And in return the new supporters club will provide some big fundraising events as well as a concrete database of supporters for marketing purposes.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

We can forget the trust, it's dead. The same people who wrecked it the first time have been allowed to wreck it again from what I can see.

 

A new supporters body? I just don't think we have the numbers.

If you look at the crowds and where the club is just now, it's probably similar to the dark days of the mid to late 80s, before lambie came.

 

Did we have any kind of supporters association back then? Would be good to find out

From small acorns.

In fact it might well be better starting small finding its feet and growing thru its own success. A club that starts with some massive sign me up campaign with folk joining en masse could easily bring its own problems,

Edited September 29, 2011 by lady-isobel-barnett

[The Devil's Point]

Any new supporters body must quickly adapt to a diet of steak pies, bovril and post match ale.

 

I think the criticism of the Trust is way over the top and largely unfair. Those who have committed their time and energy for free should be applauded rather than relentlessly slagged off on here. There are absolutely no barriers to becoming involved and the fact that so few make that effort (including myself) means that no-one should be surprised if the Trust struggles to deliver.

 

People are busy and find it very difficult to commit the enormous amounts of time and and effort that all the keyboard activists demand. I think it is ridiculous to slag off people who try their best on a voluntary basis. Get involved and try to make it work yourself before you rush to criticise.

 

I don't think we can say the Trust has failed, if anything the supporters have failed the Trust

[GrantB]

Any new supporters body must quickly adapt to a diet of steak pies, bovril and post match ale.

 

I think the criticism of the Trust is way over the top and largely unfair. Those who have committed their time and energy for free should be applauded rather than relentlessly slagged off on here. There are absolutely no barriers to becoming involved and the fact that so few make that effort (including myself) means that no-one should be surprised if the Trust struggles to deliver.

 

People are busy and find it very difficult to commit the enormous amounts of time and and effort that all the keyboard activists demand. I think it is ridiculous to slag off people who try their best on a voluntary basis. Get involved and try to make it work yourself before you rush to criticise.

 

I don't think we can say the Trust has failed, if anything the supporters have failed the Trust

 

Got to disagree.

There are plenty capable people who have got involved with the trust only to be shot down in flames by the old guard that killed the trust once before and are doing adamn good job to kil it again.

 

I'd be quite interested in getting involved with any new supporters body but I'll have hee-haw to do with the trust.

[The Devil's Point]

There are plenty capable people who have got involved with the trust only to be shot down in flames by the old guard that killed the trust once before and are doing adamn good job to kil it again.

 

Anyone who is really capable of operating within a democratic organisation will understand that they may have to bide their time before influencing policy and implementation. When you say people were "shot down in flames", don't you maybe mean that they just didn't get it all their own way, or have the patience to persevere and build support for their ideas?

 

I really find it hard to believe that anyone has been hounded out of the Trust by some sort of "old gaurd". However, I can believe that some large egos may have waded in to try and take it over, then spat the dummy when they didn't immediately get their own way.

 

Life doesn't work that way, and change generally takes a great deal of time, hard work and often seemingly pointless perseverance. Its the people who are prepared to do the dull, unglamorous stuff who really contribute to causes.

 

Any new supporters body will run into exactly the same problems. A split is the last thing the supporters need IMO.

[Norgethistle]

Anyone who is really capable of operating within a democratic organisation will understand that they may have to bide their time before influencing policy and implementation. When you say people were "shot down in flames", don't you maybe mean that they just didn't get it all their own way, or have the patience to persevere and build support for their ideas?

 

I really find it hard to believe that anyone has been hounded out of the Trust by some sort of "old gaurd". However, I can believe that some large egos may have waded in to try and take it over, then spat the dummy when they didn't immediately get their own way.

 

Life doesn't work that way, and change generally takes a great deal of time, hard work and often seemingly pointless perseverance. Its the people who are prepared to do the dull, unglamorous stuff who really contribute to causes.

 

Any new supporters body will run into exactly the same problems. A split is the last thing the supporters need IMO.

 

How many people have got to the trust board to find it impossible to work on, there seems to be way too many, but the same old faces seem to be there and re-appearing from the previous failed trust. There has to be something wrong at the board level as it is them that set the agenda, and the majority of the fans do not agree with the agenda or the released statements and course of actions they seem to take.

 

As for a split is the last thing the supporters need you are right but we have one between the trust and the majority of the fans.

 

Disband it forget it whatever, it no longer works and has become to entrenched up its own a*** to really understand what the majority of the fans do want

[GrantB]

Anyone who is really capable of operating within a democratic organisation will understand that they may have to bide their time before influencing policy and implementation. When you say people were "shot down in flames", don't you maybe mean that they just didn't get it all their own way, or have the patience to persevere and build support for their ideas?

 

I really find it hard to believe that anyone has been hounded out of the Trust by some sort of "old gaurd". However, I can believe that some large egos may have waded in to try and take it over, then spat the dummy when they didn't immediately get their own way.

 

Life doesn't work that way, and change generally takes a great deal of time, hard work and often seemingly pointless perseverance. Its the people who are prepared to do the dull, unglamorous stuff who really contribute to causes.

 

Any new supporters body will run into exactly the same problems. A split is the last thing the supporters need IMO.

 

Well better qualified people than me have tried and given up. Something must be causing it and from the guys I know, it's definately not ego.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

I think its important to establish that any new body would not look to 'split' the fans, or act as competition.

 

I, for my sins, am a member of the JT, through a family membership, I don't think this will stop if/when I become involved in a newer supporters body.

 

Grant, I am pleased you are keen, that makes at least 2 of us that could help this thing along, there has been a bit of support. Gus, mr cheese cloth man is also your best running pal honkers, I would love to have you involved and invite you right now.

 

I want this to represent the rank and file jags fans, I want it to steer clear of red tape, drumbeating and everything else that has been done to death about the Jags Trust. Once this vote is out the way, I would plans on speaking to David Beattie to see what the board are saying and how they would like to engage with any new reps. Lets be quite firm here, I do not think shares/board reps are issues here.

 

Lets get the Jags fans together, and get some positive feeling around it.

[Steven H]

I think its important to establish that any new body would not look to 'split' the fans, or act as competition.

 

I, for my sins, am a member of the JT, through a family membership, I don't think this will stop if/when I become involved in a newer supporters body.

 

Grant, I am pleased you are keen, that makes at least 2 of us that could help this thing along, there has been a bit of support. Gus, mr cheese cloth man is also your best running pal honkers, I would love to have you involved and invite you right now.

 

I want this to represent the rank and file jags fans, I want it to steer clear of red tape, drumbeating and everything else that has been done to death about the Jags Trust. Once this vote is out the way, I would plans on speaking to David Beattie to see what the board are saying and how they would like to engage with any new reps. Lets be quite firm here, I do not think shares/board reps are issues here.

 

Lets get the Jags fans together, and get some positive feeling around it.

 

I dont disagree with the idea, I dont think anyone actually does, I still have misgivings as I fail to see how it can't be done with the Jags Trust, and in turn help to make the Jags Trust more credible. Regardless, it is not such a big issue that I would be against a new supporters association...I actually had a conversation with several people about it a year or 2 ago.

 

Build it and they will come! Anything I can do to help let me know.