Independance Referendum

[jaggybunnet]

Scotland would not need to apply to the EU as far as I am aware, it would automatically be a member as it would be considered a successor state of the UK.

 

The only way Scotland would have to apply for EU membership is if it was considered to have seceded from, not succeeded the UK, and in that case it would be a new nation and take on no percentage of national debt of the UK.

 

 

As far as I am aware the opposite is the case for all uk countries if they split from the UK as we would be an independent country in the eye of the eu. the debit is between the uk members, not the eu.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-19567650

 

clear as mud which could have been cleared up by the snplong time ago

Edited October 24, 2012 by jaggybunnet

[JeanieD]

Have we been misled regarding the EU membership situation?

[jaggybunnet]

Have we been misled regarding the EU membership situation?

 

yes

[Trotter]

Probably have, yes.

 

However I think it's something that will become clearer during this marathon two years.

 

I'm sure if there was something more sinister then Cameron or Brussels would already have announced it.

 

Won't be the first politician to have been economical with the truth & certainly won't be the last.

 

Like most political leaders, Salmond will use whatever he has to suit his agenda.

[jaggybunnet]

Probably have, yes.

 

However I think it's something that will become clearer during this marathon two years.

 

I'm sure if there was something more sinister then Cameron or Brussels would already have announced it.

 

Won't be the first politician to have been economical with the truth & certainly won't be the last.

 

Like most political leaders, Salmond will use whatever he has to suit his agenda.

 

cant disagree with that, for all the parties

Edited October 24, 2012 by jaggybunnet

[hamiltonjag]

Jaggernaut: I've had a good read at your Swinney article. Seems to answer precious little to be honest.

 

See if the independence seekers get their way, can I put in a request that we at least get rid of that fcukin dirge "Flower of Scotland" as the national anthem.

 

Still voting NO.

 

Not convinced at all.....and not impressed that the only answer so far from the pro-independence side is along the lines of "The answers will come" or "its all in the timing". That doesn't even make it to "lame" to be honest.

[Jaggernaut]

[/size]

 

 

I don't think in the present climate that Scotland would be better off, in fact I think worse off and until proved different ( something the snp/yes vote don't seem to want to do) why would I want to vote yes?

 

one of the more important points is being part of the EU, Scotland gets a fair whack of subsidies for the likes of renewable energy programs, we would have to apply to join and that means taking on the euro when they want not when Scotland wants and the thought of the eu deciding our fate is enough in itself for me to vote no.

 

again its very difficult to make up your mind when there is little or no information out there.

 

as far as the yes vote not being snp thats fine but that doesn't mean he wont damage your cause.......anymore than he has already and that's before the sturg gets going.

 

 

 

No time to post, but aah, the Sturge.

 

 

[twinny]

Have we been misled regarding the EU membership situation?

yes

 

It's hard to say, but everything in the press just now is generally opinion and different legal experts have different opinions. The BBC article states that Barroso was asked about Catalonia, not Scotland, and the wording is that new states would have to apply for membership. Scotland as a successor state would not be a new state.

 

Another slightly older view on the matter agrees with my thoughts. Though again this is just opinion and that of an article written by someone of the nationalist persuasion by the look of it.

[Guy Incognito]

[/size]

 

 

I don't think in the present climate that Scotland would be better off, in fact I think worse off and until proved different ( something the snp/yes vote don't seem to want to do) why would I want to vote yes?

 

one of the more important points is being part of the EU, Scotland gets a fair whack of subsidies for the likes of renewable energy programs, we would have to apply to join and that means taking on the euro when they want not when Scotland wants and the thought of the eu deciding our fate is enough in itself for me to vote no.

 

again its very difficult to make up your mind when there is little or no information out there.

 

as far as the yes vote not being snp thats fine but that doesn't mean he wont damage your cause.......anymore than he has already and that's before the sturg gets going.

 

 

 

In what way do you think we would be worse off, and why do you think that would be? Of all of the new European states that have gained independence over the last twenty years I cannot think of any where there is a groundswell of public opinion in favour of reversing the move. Surely that says something?

 

I don't think we would have to adopt the Euro as our currency if we joined the EU as a new state. Poland and Slovakia joined fairly recently and as far as I am aware neither country uses the Euro as their currency. Since we are on the subject, it looks likely that the Conservatives, should they win a majority in the House of Commons after the 2015 UK general election, will agitate to remove the UK from the EU altogether via a referendum. If successful, that would mean that Scotland - assuming Scotland has voted against independence and remained part of the UK - would be cut adrift from the EU anyway.

 

I actually agree with your point about Salmond. He seems to get up a lot of people's noses in Scotland. However, my response to that is that he is a politician, and no politician should be trusted implicitly. This vote is about our future, not the career of some politico. In any case, a 'no' vote will not rid the world of Salmond, no matter how much some people would like it to!

 

Scotland would not need to apply to the EU as far as I am aware, it would automatically be a member as it would be considered a successor state of the UK.

 

The only way Scotland would have to apply for EU membership is if it was considered to have seceded from, not succeeded the UK, and in that case it would be a new nation and take on no percentage of national debt of the UK.

 

That seems logical to me, because if Scotland did become independent then England, Northern Ireland and Wales would still exist as the UK; a bit like a band after one of its founder members has left to persue a solo career.

 

Under those circumstances, though, I cannot see why the EU would rebuff our membership. After all, we would be a brand new, virtually debt free nation, with its very own natural resources and industries capable of generating billions in revenue. I mean, what's not to like?

[hamiltonjag]

Of all of the new European states that have gained independence over the last twenty years I cannot think of any where there is a groundswell of public opinion in favour of reversing the move. Surely that says something?

Ummmm....aye it says that the people prefer independence to Soviet government.

[Vladimir Putin]

Ummmm....aye it says that the people prefer independence to Soviet government.

 

Are the people of Ireland in favour of reversing their independence from the UK?

[hamiltonjag]

Are the people of Ireland in favour of reversing their independence from the UK?

Is Ireland a "new European state that (has) gained independence over the last twenty years"?

[Blackpool Jags]

I deserted my hameland many many years ago, so I don't think people like me should have a vote. That said, people who are based down here on a temporary or short-term basis should be enfranchised for this question.

 

But whatever the outcome of the referendum, I want Scotland and the Scottish people to be the winners. And if, after secession, a left-leaning Scottish Government makes gains for its people that an English Tory-led Government are unable to replicate for the working classes of England, then it might well lead to the reversal of centuries of England being a Tory stronghold. That might be wishful thinking on my part though; little England is very much to the right of Scotland in broad, general terms.

 

However it all pans out, I want to be able to drive through the border, on my way to Firhill, without being stopped for ID or anything like that.

[Vladimir Putin]

Is Ireland a "new European state that (has) gained independence over the last twenty years"?

 

It is not. Many of the new European states in the last twenty years were never under 'Soviet rule' either.

 

But the question stands - are there loud voices in Ireland saying that independence was a mistake and calling for reintegration into the Union? After all, their economy is in a terrible state, surely they would welcome the safey that being part of the UK could provide, and apparently currently provides for Scotland?

[hamiltonjag]

It is not. Many of the new European states in the last twenty years were never under 'Soviet rule' either.

 

But the question stands - are there loud voices in Ireland saying that independence was a mistake and calling for reintegration into the Union? After all, their economy is in a terrible state, surely they would welcome the safey that being part of the UK could provide, and apparently currently provides for Scotland?

No offence meant mate but bit of a stupid question.....akin to "will the SNP morph into the SRA post referendum and start bombing boozers in Birmingham?"

There is no way back post independence so why would the Irish waste their time calling for reintegration?

Well spotted though. Ireland is pretty fcuked at the moment. The same Ireland that The Fat Question Dodger used to point to as a shining example of a small independent nation doing oh-so well. That kinda blew up in his face (pardon the unfortunate imagery).

It is not. Many of the new European states in the last twenty years were never under 'Soviet rule' either.

OK I'll give you Malta and ummmmm Cyprus(?). That's 2. Not "many". The vast majority are of the ilk of Czech Republic, Poland, Latvia etc. Hence my tongue-in-cheek remark

[Vladimir Putin]

No offence meant mate but bit of a stupid question.....akin to "will the SNP morph into the SRA post referendum and start bombing boozers in Birmingham?"

There is no way back post independence so why would the Irish waste their time calling for reintegration?

Well spotted though. Ireland is pretty fcuked at the moment. The same Ireland that The Fat Question Dodger used to point to as a shining example of a small independent nation doing oh-so well. That kinda blew up in his face (pardon the unfortunate imagery).

 

OK I'll give you Malta and ummmmm Cyprus(?). That's 2. Not "many". The vast majority are of the ilk of Czech Republic, Poland, Latvia etc. Hence my tongue-in-cheek remark

 

The only one of those three that was part of the Soviet Union was Latvia.

 

I think my point was that the Irish people don't regret their decision to leave the UK, regardless of their economic difficulties. They are not saying 'Oh, how I wish we were sitll part of the UK'.

 

I agree with Guy Incognito about this - this question is much more fundamental than whether you like Alex Salmond or not, or whether you think you will be £500 better or worse off. It's about whether you believe in Scotland as an independent country capable of governing itself, managing it's resources and making the most of its talents and abilities. Alex Salmond and the SNP are the vehicle capable of delivering this at the moment, but the referendum itself is about much more than just the SNP. It's about whether you think there is a real, justifiable rationale for the UK, other than it being the status quo, and I don't think there is.

 

If I went to Copenhagen, Helsinki and Oslo and proposed a Scandinavian Union, with Sweden as the dominant force controlling the main economic, political and military levers of power, I would be laughed out of the room. Why would those countries give up their right to take those decisions for themselves? Yet that is what you're defending by supporting the status quo in the UK.

[hamiltonjag]

The only one of those three that was part of the Soviet Union was Latvia.

 

**** sake! I was making a joke. Maybe I should have said "Soviet Bloc" or feckin "Warsaw Pact" or "East-of-the-Former-Iron-Curtain-but-West-of-feckin-Mongolia"

 

 

I think my point was that the Irish people don't regret their decision to leave the UK, regardless of their economic difficulties. They are not saying 'Oh, how I wish we were sitll part of the UK'.

Possibly, in part, due to the fact that most of them weren't born and therefore have no recollection of being part of the UK.

 

This is becoming silly

[ausjag]

In what way do you think we would be worse off, and why do you think that would be? Of all of the new European states that have gained independence over the last twenty years I cannot think of any where there is a groundswell of public opinion in favour of reversing the move. Surely that says something?

 

I don't think we would have to adopt the Euro as our currency if we joined the EU as a new state. Poland and Slovakia joined fairly recently and as far as I am aware neither country uses the Euro as their currency. Since we are on the subject, it looks likely that the Conservatives, should they win a majority in the House of Commons after the 2015 UK general election, will agitate to remove the UK from the EU altogether via a referendum. If successful, that would mean that Scotland - assuming Scotland has voted against independence and remained part of the UK - would be cut adrift from the EU anyway.

 

I actually agree with your point about Salmond. He seems to get up a lot of people's noses in Scotland. However, my response to that is that he is a politician, and no politician should be trusted implicitly. This vote is about our future, not the career of some politico. In any case, a 'no' vote will not rid the world of Salmond, no matter how much some people would like it to!

 

 

 

That seems logical to me, because if Scotland did become independent then England, Northern Ireland and Wales would still exist as the UK; a bit like a band after one of its founder members has left to persue a solo career.

 

Under those circumstances, though, I cannot see why the EU would rebuff our membership. After all, we would be a brand new, virtually debt free nation, with its very own natural resources and industries capable of generating billions in revenue. I mean, what's not to like?

Sorry to post as I did not really want to get involved,as my very good friend Exiled Ausjag knows where I stand on this subject. Firstly, The Political Union known as The UK will no longer exist after Scotland goes its own way. The United Kingdoms are Scotland and England, therefore with only one kingdom remaining, how can it be a United Kingdom? The remaining parts will be Wales; Northern Ireland and England or if you prefer an unlabeled WINE.

 

As a very young lad sitting at my dad's knee, I remember him telling me one of the reasons to follow the Jags was that one club in Glasgow thought they were English and another club thought they were Irish, but only Partick Thistle was Scottish. You should all understand this. Born a Scot and will die a Scot by standing on my own two feet. I love the English, and those from Ireland whom I have met are cheery and outgoing people. The only Welshman I have ever known was a chappie called Evan Evans, a teacher of maths at a school I was the VP at, a nice fella he was. That said however, I think we will be better neighbours out of this Union than we are in it. My dreams for the time I have left on this Earth as the barque of time moves on is, The Jags to win the league and Scotland an independent country.