Smashing The Coaltion

[kni]

Perhaps but nationally they have occupied the centre ground of politics. Now they have been replaced with UKIP who are about 1 step away from the BNP

 

UKIP is primarily a libertarian, free market party. The BNP is a national socialist party with left-wing economic policies, e.g. nationalisation and protectionism.

[kni]

I have to admit there are far too many upper-middle class Labour figures whose wealth and properties are embarrassing beyond description; that fiend Blair made this 'respectable' within the party. I will gladly rejoice when he finds a bucket to kick, a la the current debate around a certain controversial figure's demise.

 

Like the Kinnocks and their six figure EU pensions? Their son is a senior EU "diplomat".

[The Devil's Point]

I think I owe you a wee apology TDP, I was a bit OTT with some of my comments. Apologies for any offence or hurt caused.

 

No problem Meister Jag

 

Strong opinions make for a strong forum.

[Blackpool Jags]

Kinnock - a despicable, intellectually challenged political featherweight. AND yet another narcissist, whose strategic and leadership capabilities were inversely proportional to his own view of himself.

[kni]

Kinnock - a despicable, intellectually challenged political featherweight. AND yet another narcissist, whose strategic and leadership capabilities were inversely proportional to his own view of himself.

 

An intellectual giant in comparison to Prescott who, from personal experience, is utterly obnoxious.

[Blackpool Jags]

Prescott: part nauseating egoist - full hypocrite (eg grace and favour London residence, courtesy of the RMT who he proceeded to shite all over, whilst plaintively demanding security of tenure in said g&f town house). Dobber!

[Guy Incognito]

George Osborne is not my mate. I'm not a member of any political party and have not voted since 2005.

 

I have several members of my family who work in the public sector - gold-plated pensions, flexi-time, 4 foreign holidays a year. If that's stressed out to their tits, I'll happily take it.

 

The average public sector pension is worth about £7k p.a; flexi-time is fast becoming a thing of the past and was never available in many public sector posts anyway; and if you really believe that most public sector workers are able to afford four foreign holidays a year then I fear you may be another candidate for a bouncy cell in Gartnavel Royal too!

[Meister Jag]

George Osborne is not my mate. I'm not a member of any political party and have not voted since 2005. I have several members of my family who work in the public sector - gold-plated pensions, flexi-time, 4 foreign holidays a year. If that's stressed out to their tits, I'll happily take it.

 

Interesting if not misplaced observations and apologies if my Osborne comment has touched a raw nerve; I was being somewhat flippant. I'm not a public servant but I do have some sympathy for their current plight. Your family are obviously high achievers but I can tell you that I came across few folk who could afford one, never mind four(!), foreign holidays. But maybe I'm just mixing with the wrong sorts...

 

There would appear to be a myth that civil and public servants are well paid and have enjoyed better pay rises than the private sector. However, the facts are that since 2007, basic pay in the civil service has increased by 6.5% and inflation by 10%, meaning a real terms cut in living standards. Almost half (48%) of civil servants are in admin' grades where the average (median) pay in 2009 was £17,120 for women and £17,600 for men. Average civil service pay is £22,850 a year, compared to £24,970 in the private sector. This information has been out there for some time and hasn't really beeen challenged by the coalition who seem happy to have started a pay race to the bottom i.e. you should aspire to the national minimum wage.

 

Also, some 35,000 (7%) civil servants are paid less than £15,000 a year. In truth, you'd be hard pushed to afford a weekend in Largs on that vast salary.

 

The second major myth is that public sector pensions are gold plated. What utter tosh...The myth is that private sector employers are paying for ‘gold-plated’ public sector pensions, which are expensive, unsustainable and unfair when compared to their own pensions. However, the facts is that pensions in, for example, the civil service are far from generous and have been changed recently to a career average scheme.

 

In my opinion, the growing gap between public and private sector pensions is the fault of private sector employers retreating from decent pensions. The real divide is between executives in the boardroom securing for themselves large pensions with low retirement ages, and their workforces suffering repeated cuts. It is arguably counterproductive to degrade pensions because it will force more people into poverty and onto state benefits in their retirement – this is more costly and will have to be met by future taxpayers. But your mates (sorry there I go again) in government are hell-bent on driving home ideolgically driven cuts to reduce the size of the public sector - jobs that are low paid and often needed to make society function.

 

In reality, we all help to pay for private sector pensions through the price of goods and services. And we all help to contribute to public sector pensions through taxation. Excluding the very highest earners, the average civil service pension is £4,200 a year. From memory, local authority averages aren't much better - to include dinner ladies, home helps etc. Hardly big bucks!

 

With apologies for the length of this rant!

Edited April 18, 2013 by Meister Jag

[mrD]

Even if it is true (which it is not) that public sector workers get paid better and have better conditions than their private sector counterparts. Why would the ought be that they should go down to the level of private sector. Surely it would be bettter for private sector workers to find themselves in a better situation...

[The Devil's Point]

I don't believe for one second that there will be any sort of rebellion against the coalition from within the Lib Dem ranks,

 

I'm not so sure about that. The Federal Conference, ie the main one for the whole of the UK, will be held in Glasgow in September. It's maybe not the best time to bring it here to be honest....

 

All I want is to see our leadership stand up more to some of the worst excesses of the Tories. When Osborne made his comments about welfare and that horrible child killer, at least Danny Alexander, as Osborne's opposite number, came out and tried to disassociate the Lib Dems from his views. When Cameron came out and backed Osborne's comments, Nick Clegg said precisely nothing. Not good enough.

 

I don't want to be disloyal to the Lib Dems, but it is stretching it to ask us to be loyal to some of language of the Tory party.

 

I haven't resigned, but I reserve my right to rant and express my unhappiness about some of this stuff.

[kni]

Even if it is true (which it is not) that public sector workers get paid better and have better conditions than their private sector counterparts. Why would the ought be that they should go down to the level of private sector. Surely it would be bettter for private sector workers to find themselves in a better situation...

 

A revealing phrase! It's the private sector (businesses and individuals) who fund the public sector. The government has no money of its own, just what it takes in taxes from the private sector. If government screws the private sector, it eventually screws itself.

[The Devil's Point]

A revealing phrase! It's the private sector (businesses and individuals) who fund the public sector. The government has no money of its own, just what it takes in taxes from the private sector. If government screws the private sector, it eventually screws itself.

 

It's not a revealing phrase. I'm sure you know fine well that's not what mrD meant. Pay has been frozen for years in the public sector and conditions become worse all the time. The myth that public sector workers have it easy is on about the same level as the one about how all benefit claimants are lazy and sit around watching Sky on massive tv's. I'd like to see some of these jealous private sector people lasting a week in frontline public service work ie being a social worker or working in A&E on a Saturday night.

 

Wages and conditions have gone downhill for everyone apart from those at the top. This went on under Labour as well and inequality of incomes etc has got much worse over the last decade or so. There is such an employers market that people have to work far more than they are paid for and then be terribly grateful for having a job.

 

I think one of the worst things the coalition has done is to implement Workfare which is blatantly a way of forcing people to work for very profitable corporations for less than the minimum wage. What we need is stronger unionisation and a move towards forcing living wages. It is crazy that the public purse is subsidising employers to pay poverty wages. It is crazy that the Liberal Democrats are implicated in this.

[mrD]

A revealing phrase! It's the private sector (businesses and individuals) who fund the public sector. The government has no money of its own, just what it takes in taxes from the private sector. If government screws the private sector, it eventually screws itself.

 

not before the dismantlement of nationalised industries.....

[mrD]

It's not a revealing phrase. I'm sure you know fine well that's not what mrD meant. Pay has been frozen for years in the public sector and conditions become worse all the time. The myth that public sector workers have it easy is on about the same level as the one about how all benefit claimants are lazy and sit around watching Sky on massive tv's. I'd like to see some of these jealous private sector people lasting a week in frontline public service work ie being a social worker or working in A&E on a Saturday night.

 

Wages and conditions have gone downhill for everyone apart from those at the top. This went on under Labour as well and inequality of incomes etc has got much worse over the last decade or so. There is such an employers market that people have to work far more than they are paid for and then be terribly grateful for having a job.

 

I think one of the worst things the coalition has done is to implement Workfare which is blatantly a way of forcing people to work for very profitable corporations for less than the minimum wage. What we need is stronger unionisation and a move towards forcing living wages. It is crazy that the public purse is subsidising employers to pay poverty wages. It is crazy that the Liberal Democrats are implicated in this.

 

would click like this but ran outta them!

[kni]

not before the dismantlement of nationalised industries.....

 

Harking back to the good old days of Soviet food queues, Trabants, Ladas etc?

[The Devil's Point]

Harking back to the good old days of Soviet food queues, Trabants, Ladas etc?

 

You must be delighted that the trains now all run on time, and provide affordable fares and sufficient seating. It's also really great that people in poverty are subjected to massive fuel bills from highly profitable companies, who can get away with ripping off people because the market tolerates their cartel. No-one would re-nationalise a lot of these industries, but privatisation was not perfect.

 

People are being shafted by immoral big business, and I despair at the way the coalition stands back and lets it happen. Massive executive pay is far more offensive to me than vulnerable people claiming benefits. The main thing that trickles down, are the management practices of the greedy and selfish, and people are living with workplace bullying, dreadful conditions and terrible pay because no-body in power seems to care.

[kni]

You must be delighted that the trains now all run on time, and provide affordable fares and sufficient seating. It's also really great that people in poverty are subjected to massive fuel bills from highly profitable companies, who can get away with ripping off people because the market tolerates their cartel. No-one would re-nationalise a lot of these industries, but privatisation was not perfect.

 

People are being shafted by immoral big business, and I despair at the way the coalition stands back and lets it happen. Massive executive pay is far more offensive to me than vulnerable people claiming benefits. The main thing that trickles down, are the management practices of the greedy and selfish, and people are living with workplace bullying, dreadful conditions and terrible pay because no-body in power seems to care.

 

Green taxes and wind power are two of the main reasons for higher fuel bills. I have worked in two nationalised industries and saw customers being ripped off. The biggest problems were rampant fraud and cronyism - jobs for "the boys".

 

The vulnerable and the needy should have benefits. If you want to take on massive executive pay, the BBC is as bad as big business.

[The Devil's Point]

Green taxes and wind power are two of the main reasons for higher fuel bills. I have worked in two nationalised industries and saw customers being ripped off. The biggest problems were rampant fraud and cronyism - jobs for "the boys".

 

The vulnerable and the needy should have benefits. If you want to take on massive executive pay, the BBC is as bad as big business.

 

Fair points.

[The Devil's Point]

The latest edition of Private Eye has the headline of "Coalition in Crisis" on the front page. David Cameron is pictured with a bubble thing saying "I can't work with the Tories any more".

 

When the coalition agreement was put in place, Vince Cable said something about how it had been his life's work to stop the Tories and that he was uncomfortable with the whole idea. It didn't seem to stop him taking a cabinet job, an inevitable peerage, and membership of the Privy Council. You have to understand the general cynicism about politics when you see someone who was a Labour Councillor in Maryhill, and one of the founders of Maryhill Citizens Advice Bureau, going with all that.

 

That's all I'm saying about it

Edited May 16, 2013 by The Devil's Point

[Jaggernaut]

The latest edition of Private Eye has the headline of "Coalition in Crisis" on the front page. David Cameron is pictured with a bubble thing saying "I can't work with the Tories any more".

 

When the coalition agreement was put in place, Vince Cable said something about how it had been his life's work to stop the Tories and that he was uncomfortable with the whole idea. It didn't seem to stop him taking a cabinet job, an inevitable peerage, and membership of the Privy Council. You have to understand the general cynicism about politics when you see someone who was a Labour Councillor in Maryhill, and one of the founders of Maryhill Citizens Advice Bureau, going with all that.

 

That's all I'm saying about it

 

That's all you need to say.

 

Point made, eloquently and succinctly.

 

There are many, many "Labour" people who've gone down exactly the same road, to my eternal chagrin.

[The Mighty Quinn]

I know it isn't wise to post this, but I have had about enough.

 

Scotland has a tremendous legacy of Liberalism, and we remain proud. However, we were told that we would all be in it together, yet the demonisation of benefit claimants, and the continuation of outrageous payments to bankers clearly shows that it is not the case.

 

We were told that Liberal Democrats in government would help hold back the worst excesses of the right wing. We were conned, and the blame has simply been shifted to the disabled and the vulnerable.

 

I am no longer prepared to walk by on the other side. I will always be a Liberal, and a Democrat, but the time has come to stand up and say no to this.

worst excesses of the right wing?n whats wrong wae the right wing

[kni]

The latest edition of Private Eye has the headline of "Coalition in Crisis" on the front page. David Cameron is pictured with a bubble thing saying "I can't work with the Tories any more".

 

When the coalition agreement was put in place, Vince Cable said something about how it had been his life's work to stop the Tories and that he was uncomfortable with the whole idea. It didn't seem to stop him taking a cabinet job, an inevitable peerage, and membership of the Privy Council. You have to understand the general cynicism about politics when you see someone who was a Labour Councillor in Maryhill, and one of the founders of Maryhill Citizens Advice Bureau, going with all that.

 

That's all I'm saying about it

 

Cable defected from Labour to the SDP before they merged with the Liberals to form the Lib Dems.

[stillresigned]

Have got about as much time for the coalition as I do for the team that plays at Ibrox Stadium. Current events justify my original opinion that it was a marriage of two mutually opposite political forces, fine maybe in wartime but fundamentally impractical and ill advised at any other time. The LD's will be henceforth associated with all the horrible Tory policies of cuts and will also be saddled with the blame for the failure to push forward the policies dear to the heart of Tory England such as immigration and Europe: both of which are fundamentally illiberal. The latter subject, I hazard to say will provide the coup de grace for both this government and unfortunately the LD's: who will retreat to the political wilderness occupied by their forebears following the Liberals last dalliance with the Tories in government.

[jaggybunnet]

Have got about as much time for the coalition as I do for the team that plays at Ibrox Stadium. Current events justify my original opinion that it was a marriage of two mutually opposite political forces, fine maybe in wartime but fundamentally impractical and ill advised at any other time. The LD's will be henceforth associated with all the horrible Tory policies of cuts and will also be saddled with the blame for the failure to push forward the policies dear to the heart of Tory England such as immigration and Europe: both of which are fundamentally illiberal. The latter subject, I hazard to say will provide the coup de grace for both this government and unfortunately the LD's: who will retreat to the political wilderness occupied by their forebears following the Liberals last dalliance with the Tories in government.

 

and then we will get labour

[Blackpool Jags]

The T*ries have accomplished so much more than they could've dreamt possible when the final seats were declared on the fateful night of the last election. The very notion that the NHS could've been dismantled and parcelled up for the good ole boys from the private sector must've seemed fanciful to the hard right of the party; that Royal Mail would be on its way out of public ownership would've been a wet dream too far for the Thatcherites; and the then bizarre notion that the big financial players would become even more saturated in filthy lucre at this stage in an unstintingly contracting economy would've been the ultimate orgasm for the heroes of the FTSE 100.

 

Little tweaks like the incineration of the few remaining employment rights that could be enjoyed by workers, brought about by the dubious prerogative of the statutory instrument, was the equivalent of a boxer urinating on his unconscious opponent 4 minutes after the count of ten.

 

That précis of political 'accomplishments' was only made possible due to comrade Clegg's inner requirement to be somebody. Cameron et al must be gushing with bona fide gratitude to their current bedfellows for enabling them to act out their deepest, most lurid fantasies. It is difficult to conjecture another set of circumstances where a broken Tory party, fractured by an unprecedented fourth election defeat, could've rallied to the point that they did, propped up by their hitherto undeclared fans from Whitehall's third party.

 

Stunning, but damagingly true. Well done, Nick, I don't doubt that your reward awaits you some way down the line. Lord Clegg, Tory Leader of the Lords. Sounds about right.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Blackpool Jags