laukat

Storer's goal is possibly the best strike I've seen at Firhill definitely worth seeing again. Looked like goal of the season. Storer did have one other absolutely stunning piece of control but thereafter wasn't really in the game. He looks like the sort of player who on his day could be worth the admission money alone. Back 4 and goalkeeper look solid. Up front we need another striker to bring some variation and provide a rest for Doolan However we have a big gaping hole in our midfield where we desperately need a central midfielder with experience who can tell tell people what to do and lead. Slater looks capable of making the play and Gordon and McCarthy look capable of getting up to support the attack but we have no one capable of getting a grip of the middle of the park. Spittal was poor and I'm not convinced he's good enough. Storey frightened the Morton defence with his pace and running when he came on but for some reason stopped doing it. He need to either get his head together or move on. Suspect we will need at least one other wide player.

That's a very insightful comment. There's been a horrible tension watching Thistle this season and it can't have been nice playing as it sure as hell wasn't nice watching. Our entry into the top six last year seemed to bring an attitude of entitlement in our support which is never good anywhere. It used to be that the Thistle support were quite funny and capable of helping the team by making light of the situation. This season the away support provided the humour. For example Livi's "Just a sh*te jack sparrow" chant was very funny but also helped release some pressure from their team. Only chant I can remember from the thistle support was a half-hearted attempt at "we're only here for the Wimpy" at County which at 4-0 down quickly lost its appeal. Its not just the playing staff who need an attitude adjustment to make watching football at Firhill a more enjoyable experience

What do you think his best position is? Personally I don't think he has one but he is useful to us because he will player anywhere he's asked and usually give a 6/10 performance. To me he's the ideal guy to have on the bench to cover for injuries but not a starter.

Only problem with Cerny is his injuries. I hope Sneddon is decent as at some point next season he'll probably need to play half a dozen games. I'm not sure we can expect Archie to recruit a squad of young players and turn them into league winners in year one. I can see a need for guys like Paton who bring a bit of experience and 'nastiness' back to a midfield which has been soft at best. He might also bring on McCarthy who might find he gets less time on the ball in the championship compared to the premier.

Anyone know what Callum Wilson is like? I would assume he is getting a contract as he is potentially going to be part of the first team squad? Scully leaving is a bit of a surprise. Given Cerny usually misses 4 or 5 games due to injury it puts some onus on Sneddon I assume Barton, Storey and Keown didn't trigger their release clause as per edwards. So does that mean they are trying to do the decent thing by the club and hopefully allowing us to recoup a transfer fee?

100% agree with this. Still no idea what his best position is. He's not creative enough to be a no 10 or attacking midfielder and not defensively strong enough to be a central midfielder.

The statement today doesn't give Archie much leeway. The part that said " We have also agreed that we must return to playing football like Partick Thistle – we can’t be anyone else" implies that he needs have us playing passing football, scoring goals and not continuing the signing policy of jobbing players to do a job for 1 season. I think this is a bit of swipe at some of our team from last year but also at the Ross County and Hamilton's who pay high wages with the sole aim of winning never mind the entertainment value. So it would appear that Archie has to play attractive football, recruit younger homegrown players who'll stay with the club longer and win the league in one year. I think Hearts under Robbie Neilson did that but apart from them I'm struggling to think of anyone else. First test will be player recruitment and I really hope Archie succeeds

" While we take hard lessons from this season on a number of fronts, our focus is now on getting back to the Premiership by this time next year. Learning from other clubs before us, it is clear that slashing budgets is a false economy. For the Club to succeed in the Championship and remain prepared for that return to top flight football, we need to have a competitive budget that will fully match our aspirations " That part reads bit like we're betting the house on a return within one year. I would have like to have heard that we have the budget to sustain a promotion challenging team until we actually gain promotion.

The statement says rebuilding the squad has started so putting 2 and 2 together and going for 5 - Is Kenny Miller likely to be our first signing as player/coach?

Because that's what we've done every time we've been relegated?

The article reads like a summary of points made on this forum nothing new. He's correct about prize money full breakdown is here https://stv.tv/sport/football/1411762-spfl-announce-record-prize-money-for-2017-18-season/

Very good point. This forum was becoming a bit of a waste of time as most discussions were ending up in nit-picking and arguing over trivial matters. If there is one positive out of relegation it seems to be that the fans on this forum are united on finding the best way forward and open to possibilities others put forward. I clearly believe that Archie needs to go but if the board choose to go with him I will be back at Firhill for the opening game hoping we beat whoever we have in front of us and that Archie is successful.

Ferguson did at Manchester United pretty much what he did at Aberdeen in that he took about 3 years to change the team into what he wanted to be (i'm told he did the same at St Mirren but I was too young to remember that). The thing that made Ferguson a true managerial great is that he had an ability to constantly rebuild teams and could spot talent in players no matter their age. Some managers are good at bringing through youth and some at making more experienced players give that extra bit more but he could do it across generations. The big surprise was that Manchester United board were clued up enough to realise he could do it if and that they gave him the time to do it he would. Ferguson already had the skills he just took it to a bigger stage. Actually finding a manager that changed their style after 5 years and gained success is rare. There is probably such a person out there but I can't think of one

My memory must be failing me. I thought he was out of contract at the end of the 2002/3 season and left for better wages and longer contract? Was that not the summer we lost Alex Burns and Scott Paterson partly because our approach was only to sign players on 1 year deals as well as Lambie retiring to be replaced by Collins?

Yes but they were appointed at a time when we were in a poor state due to letting the manager that relegated us having a season or two at trying to get us back up My reasoning is that if we had binned Cormack and brought in an experienced manager the club would have not deteriorated to a level that we had to hire Rooney. Johnstone was another slide down the way and it wasn't until Jim Oliver, Bobby Watson et al appeared and put some money into attracting Lambie that we actually got back on the right path. Same applies with Murdo. If we had managed to return to the premier league in one season would there have been a save the jags season? If there's no save the jags there's no Bryce. We were fortunate that after Bryce, Lambie happened to need a job as we had no money to attract a decent replacement. Ditto with Whyte and Britton. If we bin them immediately after relegation its unlikely that we ever suffer Dick Campbell. After Campbell we again we got lucky that McCall was available having been let go by Queen of the South as we didn't have the finances to change it. I think everyone would agree that McCall started the turn around that lead to our last promotion To my mind when you get relegated you have a chance that you must take to start again immediately. The financial situation only gets worse the longer you leave it and the hope that the guy who's in post will learn from his mistakes is based on history false hope.

It wasn't my intention to depress anyone. It was more a hope to avoid another period of prolonged depression! Murdo McLeod was bad but Benny Rooney, Derek Johnstone, Tommy Bryce, and Dick Campbell were way worse. In my mind they were a symptom of not dealing with things after a relegation and show you were it can take you to. My son first started watching thistle during the 2013 promotion season so he's been spared having to see the Alan Carson's, Bryan Purdie's and Willie Calllaghan's of the world. I hope he never has to endure that as I can't afford the counseling sessions he would need.

I've read quite a few comments that are along the lines of if he can show he can learn from this and improve he should stay. Archie is what Archie is. A decent guy and a competent day to day manager of a football club but he struggles to find players and with in-game tactics. He's unlikely to have got a chance at a championship club (as we where when he was appointed) if it wasn't for his playing career with us. He now has 4/5 years worth of experience so he isn't going to show rapid improvement as that tends to come in your first year or two. I struggle to think of any manager at any club who has been able to develop into something different after almost 5 years in post. The other argument for keeping him seems to be that as a thistle person we should give him more time However he's survived in the job longer than a non-thistle player would have been allowed to based on his attribute as a player. (Incidentally I think he knew he wouldn't get that time in England or at another club so turned down those job offers for security rather than loyalty to Thistle) If he leaves now he might get a job at Morton or Dumbarton and will probably be employable. If he hangs around with us for another season and fails he'll probably not get another managers job. When Dundee United came in for him as a player he didn't hang about so I don't get why we think we owe him something?

First game I went to was in in the early eighties after relegation from the top flight to see a team managed by a young manager (Peter Cormack), keen to learn from the mistakes he made as he got us relegated to ensure we return quickly to the top league. It only took another 10 years to get back to the top league, the first 2 seasons after relegation we were competitive, the next 5 we struggled to stay in the league as the financial impact of failing to return in the first 2 seasons kicked in. Fast forward to our next relegation and we've been relegated under Murdo Mcleod an eager young manager, keen to learn from the mistakes made as he got us relegated to ensure we return quickly to the premier league. We give him a season to learn from his mistakes and we fail, financial impact kicks in, save the jags and we're another 6 seasons before we get back to the top flight. Then we get relegated again in 2005 but its ok because we have an eager young management team, keen to learn from the mistakes made as they got us relegated to ensure we return quickly to the top league. Surprisingly that doesn't work so we don't get back to the top league for another 8 years. So we're now in 2018 we've just been relegated but its ok because we have a young manager, keen to learn from the mistakes made as he got us relegated and we'll make a quick return to the top league........

Thanks for the answer to the question. However I think this approach is high risk. If Archie is struggling come January it will be far more difficult to find a manager able to turn it around. Said new manager will have inherited Archie's new squad which means even if he is successful next summer would be another clearout and start again. There used to be certain managers who could step into a club midseason and turn them around but I struggle to think of any in recent times and even fewer that Thistle could go to if Archie fails. I also think if Archie continues apathy might be a big concern. Its getting a bit stale watching 4-2-3-1 and hearing the cliche-ridden post match interviews. When we went down under Murdo McLeod he had similar managerial traits to Archie. Spoke in cliche's, played a passing but ineffective brand of football and failed to develop any younger players. We can't repeat that mistake, we need a stronger personality on the touchline that can bring back some passion.

I was a big fan of Archie and if he'd kept us up I would have been more than happy to continue with him. However he didn't and I can't believe that after the dross we've been served up that anyone is even suggesting he should. I would be interested to know from those that want him to continue, exactly how far do we need to fall before you suggest his time is up?

The only ones I think we will keep will be Fraser, Scully, Elliott, Spittal and Bannigan because they won't get a better offer. Everyone else won't take the wage drop. There are several that shouldn't be offered anything by us. Erskine and Doolan should be offered testimonial games to ensure they stay.

Right now if someone offered me a mid-table finish in the championship next year I would snatch your hand off. We have a massive turnover of players ahead and you only have to look at what happened to us previously and to clubs like St Mirren, ICT and Falkirk. The question is who is best to do the rebuild and get us that mid-table finish? To my mind that's not Archie. He's had 5 years and his recruitment tends to be from the english leagues which we won't be able to afford. He also doesn't have faith in the younger guys (penrice, mccarthy). Our recruitment needs to be focused on finding young ambitious Scottish players who together with Doolan and Erskine can form an effective team that may challenge in 2 to 3 years time. In effect we need someone to do the job Ian McCall did for us 7 or 8 years ago. I appreciate he left under a cloud before but then again some of our best times have been brought by the return of some other 'prodigal sons'.

Penrice was bizarre and if you look at Motherwell at home and Ross County home and away we were crying out for a left sided player. Instead of which we got Elliot. If I were Penrice I would be questioning why its worth staying after that.

Barton at centre half yesterday was actually pretty good. Which begs the question of why did Archie not put Barton there a few weeks ago rather than Devine? I would assume that Archie lost the dressing room in February as from that point on he started to not use certain players. Looks like the return of the injured players in January was more of a problem than a help because he couldn't find a way of keeping them all happy. Clearly Dumbaya didn't like being on the bench, Storey looked unhappy at getting left on the bench in favour of an on-loan signing, Penrice couldn't have been happy watching Elliot, Osman couldn't have enjoyed watching Edwards, McCarthy, Woods and Barton being preffered to him.

There are 3 options on the table just now. 1. Archie and the board issue a statement this week saying he wants to remedy his mistakes and make as quick as possible return knowing that if next season doesn't go well its not just Archie who will need to fall. 2. The board pull him in this week and say thanks but good by 3. The board let Archie pontificate over several weeks and leave us all hanging, we loose a few weeks of essential preparation for next season which is only 8 weeks away and then make panic decisions on a replacement manager and/or replacement players Personally I think its times for option 2. However I suspect that we will go with option 3 as we just do not have a ruthless leader at the club. As we have no General Manager we need the chairman to come out to either fully support Archie or get rid. The decision cannot be Archie's.