North Stand: Time For A Rethink ?

[Norgethistle]

If we close the NS how many fans will decide enoughs enough? 10? 50? 100 maybe?

 

What will that cost us? Not just in the short term but in the long term.

 

We are trying to grow a fanbase a bit of atmosphere in the NS helps, it also offers a better alternative to the JHS for some fans (300-500) or about 20% of our core support.

 

Can we afford not to keep it going???

[oneteaminglasgow]

It's not just about revenue. It's about costs. How much does it cost to open the north stand for each match. If the costs significantly outweighs the number of people using the facility, then maybe that money could be better spent.

 

Bear in mind this is extra cost incurred( potentially) over having everyone in one stand.

 

If we are struggling to increase revenue( or indeed we are losing revenue year on year), then i think it's inevitable attention will turn to cost saving at some point.

 

 

Everyone says the NS is a great idea. My question is at what cost? At 10k a season it probably is good value. At 30k it's not imo

 

That's my concern. What's more concerning is that no-one seems to know?

 

So again, do we have any idea? Anyone? Total stewarding and catering costs for whole ground might be a good starting point?

 

I think you're missing the point spectacularly.

 

I think almost every single Thistle fan would agree that the match day experience and atmosphere within Firhill has improved since the move to allow home fans into the North Stand. We all remember how soulless and frankly unenjoyable a place Firhill was prior to that. Now, I'm not saying that moving the singing section to the JHS would definitely result in losing that, but the evidence of what Firhill was like prior to the NS move would absolutely suggest that it would. In that sense, do you not think that it is right that, even if the club are indeed incurring costs to open the NS every week, that they have put atmosphere and enjoyment of the experience for the fan base first? And I don't just mean the NS fans either, I'm sure many JHS regulars would say they enjoy going to games more now that there is some vibrancy and energy around the stadium.

 

Furthermore, if we wish to grow as a club, and obviously we do, do you not think it prudent that we continue to offer different match day experiences to cater to different people's wishes? I know I personally wouldn't attend nearly as many matches as I do without the NS, I'm sure there's many in the same boat. All that closing it would achieve, IMO, would be yes maybe cutting costs, but it would be at the expense of a great source of revenue, and even more potential revenue. A lot of young fans want to get involved in the singing, in vocally backing the team and if we aim to progress, even gradually, it is younger fans or potential fans that we must target. People pick the club they will support at a young age generally, and by making the match day experience more enjoyable, we can target these people and allow the club to thrive.

 

You seem to be going on and on about the cost of opening the NS, but seem to not actually know what it is, or indeed consider at all the many things that it brings to Firhill and the revenue it brings in. You've plucked 30k a year out of thin air and said its not good value at that without any idea whatsoever if that is the total, or indeed if that's covered by the amount it brings in on a yearly basis. Furthermore, the singing section, which would in all likelihood be dead on its arse without the NS move, has a positive effect on the team (as shown by their public appreciation for it) and, as I've previously stated, the match day experience. These are more abstract concepts which can't simply be measured in numbers but are still very much relevant to any discussion.

 

The NS sets us apart from a number of clubs, who also have a singing section but don't make anywhere near the same kind of atmosphere. Look at the Saints, both Mirren and Johnstone. A group of maybe 20 guys at the end of one stand singing sporadically. That is what I fear we would become were the NS be forced to vacate, and that, and that alone, is enough to convince me that it's worth keeping open, never mind the costs. You say you have an emotional connection to the JHS, well I have one to the NS because it is there that I rediscovered my passion for Partick Thistle. I'm sure there's others in that same boat. Value for money or not, the NS is justifiable as long as it continues to serve the wishes of a (fairly sizeable) group of the club's supporters. People will talk about what the board does wrong. The NS is something it's done very right (despite a minor hiccup when they tried to shift it). There's no need for a rethink.

 

 

[Norgethistle]

If we're looking to cut costs lets scrap free kids places and concession tickets too whilst we are at it, they all take up seats and need stewarding which costs money.

 

To hell with trying to grow our support, let's cut cost, discourage the freeloading kids and OAPs then we can house the whole home support in one section of the main stand and have 4 stewards and 1 pie stall, just think of the savings!!!!!

[ian_mac]

Does anyone have these figures? Do they? Anyone? Anyone at all? CAN SOMEONE PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME THESE FIGURES!!!

 

The answer is of course, no, we don't. The figures have never been published. Maybe ask the club and they will

[spandau]

I agree with OTIG - the NS set-up definitely differentiates us from similar size clubs. I would imagine some fans of these clubs would love to have a dedicated stand where they can stand with mates and have a song or two if they fancy it.

 

Prior to the current set-up, watching most games at Firhill was like watching on a huge flatscreen TV with the volume turned off. I was a JHS regular until halfway through last season (primarily due to the over 16s rule as I often attend with my son) but since the age limit was dropped we've watched every home game from the NS. It's not perfect, and I don't think anyone would say it is, but you do go home feeling like you've actually been to a football match which often wasn't the case for me prior to the NS being opened up to Jags fans. For that reason, unless the cost is absolutely prohibitive, I believe the NS should remain as is.

[Tom Hosie]

It's not just about revenue. It's about costs. How much does it cost to open the north stand for each match. If the costs significantly outweighs the number of people using the facility, then maybe that money could be better spent.

 

Bear in mind this is extra cost incurred( potentially) over having everyone in one stand.

 

If we are struggling to increase revenue( or indeed we are losing revenue year on year), then i think it's inevitable attention will turn to cost saving at some point.

 

 

Everyone says the NS is a great idea. My question is at what cost? At 10k a season it probably is good value. At 30k it's not imo

 

That's my concern. What's more concerning is that no-one seems to know?

 

So again, do we have any idea? Anyone? Total stewarding and catering costs for whole ground might be a good starting point?

 

You are concerned that nobody on a fans' forum appears to have an idea what the cost of opening the NS is to the Club?

[JaggyMad]

So you want an answer to a question only club officials would know. Maybe phone the club and ask them?

As was said above and hopefully you could answer this....if as you say it costs the club £10000-£30000 per yr to open the NS,

(Here's the question).. If we shut it down and we lose 100-200 plus people and they bring someone else with them sometimes...how much would that cost the club????

[sandy]

The North Stand singing section has been one of the best initiatives at Firhill in recent years. What makes it particularly special is the way it has been led by the fans.

 

Ian, Dave and others deserve to be applauded.

 

Really don't see what the 'issue' is here tbh.

[Jagman1876]

What is the age limit for kids in the NS and why is it that ?

[La Scimmia Rossa]

Hi Tom. My "concern" is everyone talking about what a great idea it is without knowing what it costs. That seems a tad bizarre.

 

As Ian says. I've had my say.

 

I suspect as the season progresses, we'll find ourselves back here again...

Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa

[oneteaminglasgow]

Hi Tom. My "concern" is everyone talking about what a great idea it is without knowing what it costs. That seems a tad bizarre.

 

As Ian says. I've had my say.

 

I suspect as the season progresses, we'll find ourselves back here again...

 

Whereas going on and on about how it isn't value for money without knowing what it costs is normal.

 

Could you please actually read some responses, and realise that the support for it isn't solely finance based? Cheers.

[potty trained]

 

 

I suspect as the season progresses, we'll find ourselves back here again...

 

Why do you suspect that?

[potty trained]

For reference. This mythical figure of £30k you've provide, as your personal line in the sand, Colin.

 

That's 75 folk per game at £22 per head.

 

So, if the NS has generated 75 folk through the door who either didn't previously come, or were on the verge of not coming. It pays for itself.

 

 

 

 

[yoda-jag]

It's not just about revenue. It's about costs. How much does it cost to open the north stand for each match. If the costs significantly outweighs the number of people using the facility, then maybe that money could be better spent.

 

Bear in mind this is extra cost incurred( potentially) over having everyone in one stand.

 

If we are struggling to increase revenue( or indeed we are losing revenue year on year), then i think it's inevitable attention will turn to cost saving at some point.

 

 

Everyone says the NS is a great idea. My question is at what cost? At 10k a season it probably is good value. At 30k it's not imo

 

That's my concern. What's more concerning is that no-one seems to know?

 

So again, do we have any idea? Anyone? Total stewarding and catering costs for whole ground might be a good starting point?

 

o ..... m ..... g

 

what a catastrophic post.

 

you are clearly on the wind up.

 

but well done, as a top trolling pointless argument fishing exercise, you got plenty bites. you can dine out on this one for a few days on your twitter.

 

this may possibly be the last post of yours i will reply to, for you have excelled yourself in completely discrediting yourself with this recent diarrhetic run of drivel from your keyboard, but i don't discount you outdoing yourself in the future, to invoke further hilarity towards you and deconstruction and burying of your arguments back into the nonsense box.

 

so, to address your (once again totally made up plucked from the air fantasy) figures ..... you say cost saving is or will be required soon ..... the ns costs up to £30k a season to open you claim ..... so, taking your maximum, that's around £1600 a game ..... £22 entry adult, £17 on a st, then there's concessions, so let's be generous to you, and say revenue is only £10 a head average, once vat stripped out ..... 500 (minimum) is the average attendance in the ns (in my opinion, and i think most forumites would agree with this, while your ridiculous 200 is obviously a bulls1t lie diversion tactic) ..... so, going by your argument of £30k a season cost (£1600 a game), the ns generates £5k a game minimum, but if it was closed (or given to away supports) i would argue that over 160 fans would be lost ..... from a combination of ns attendees, and some jhs attendees, some of who have already commented on this very thread they attend firhill more now because of better atmosphere , and if lost, they'd be less inclined to attend.

 

how does losing fans increase revenue?

how does if not totally destroying atmosphere, at bare minimum savagely reducing it, of home crowd, encourage existing, let alone new supporters, to attend firhill, and on a regular basis?

you do remember the days when singing sections were attempted in the jhs don't you? when one end could be making a racket (or so they thought), but at other end, it couldn't be heard as the sound went towards the park, and didn't travel sideways? how away supports (sometimes of 100 or 150 ross county or raith or cowdenbeath etc) always seemed to outsing and be louder than the jags support. do you really want a return to these days?

 

whether it's costs or atmosphere, revenue or match day experience, or whatever slant you want to put on it for your frankly bewildering attempt to divide for no reason, this is a nonsense issue with no degree of sanity or thought on your part, and every time you post on it, you get further lost in a ridiculousness of your own making.

 

as others have posted in this thread, the ns is one of the few things the board have got right when it comes to stadium layout and attempting to connect with the support and encourage atmosphere and attendance at firhill, and yet you want to take it away. you for real?

 

i say this finally, with sincerity ..... you're doing yourself no favours lsr. in fact i'd say you're doing thistle no favours. step away from the keyboard.

[Tom Hosie]

Hi Tom. My "concern" is everyone talking about what a great idea it is without knowing what it costs. That seems a tad bizarre.

 

As Ian says. I've had my say.

 

I suspect as the season progresses, we'll find ourselves back here again...

 

Bizarre why?

 

I've just been to Ladbrookes but I don't know how much it costs them to have the shop open every day. I then went into Farmfoods and I don't know how much it costs to keep that store open either. Not much I suspect as it is a shitehole.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

When you go to Ladbrokes you don't care what their costs are. If you are a Thistle fan, i suspect you might care if we were unable to sign that striker from Scunthorpe because we were spending money duplicating costs. Or maybe you wouldn't.

 

As for 75 people at 22 quid. If the 30k isn't being spent say on players, or other say facilities that might be chasing 100 others away. Likewise if you open the same facility in the JH, i doubt you'd lose all 75.

 

Comparisons with the JH in the past are also unfair. No standing, over zealous policing all contributed to this. As did a pretty shite time off the park.

 

Anyway, i'm back in my box. Let's move on. Absolutely nothing to see here...

 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2015 by La Scimmia Rossa

[ian_mac]

4 pages in now, and not one post of support for the OP.

 

Just how out of touch can one person be with the other supporters of his football team?

[Tom Hosie]

When you go to Ladbrokes you don't care what their costs are. If you are a Thistle fan, i suspect you might care if we were unable to sign that striker from Scunthorpe because we were spending money duplicating costs. Or maybe you wouldn't.

 

As for 75 people at 22 quid. If the 30k isn't being spent say on players, or other say facilities that might be chasing 100 others away. Likewise if you open the same facility in the JH, i doubt you'd lose all 75.

 

Comparisons with the JH in the past are also unfair. No standing, over zealous policing all contributed to this. As did a pretty shite time off the park.

 

Anyway, i'm back in my box. Let's move on. Absolutely nothing to see here...

 

That still doesn't remotely come close to explaining why it is 'bizarre' that a Thistle fan wouldn't know how much it costs the club to,open the NS.

 

I find it more bizarre that you would think that this is the place to find an answer to that question.

[La Scimmia Rossa]

Hi Ian. The forum has never been particularly representative of anything. Other than the forum. If it were, Archie would be sacked, we'd have two upfront, and tesselar would be our left back.

 

I don't see how asking a question or putting forward a point of view, makes me "in touch" or "out of touch", or that it really matters( it certainly doesn't to me). I don't represent any viewpoint, other than my own.

 

I wasn't particularly looking for support. I was asking a question, which has been answered emphatically by what? A dozen people? Two dozen ? Three Those folks don't think we require a rethink. Fair enough.

 

As i said, i'm fairly convinced we'll be back here and soon.

 

Happy to call a halt to proceedings. Maybe bump into you in Inverness tomorrow. No hard feelings and all that.

 

[La Scimmia Rossa]

 

 

That still doesn't remotely come close to explaining why it is 'bizarre' that a Thistle fan wouldn't know how much it costs the club to,open the NS.

 

I find it more bizarre that you would think that this is the place to find an answer to that question.

Hi Tom, maybe i find it strange that no-one seems even considered that there might be additional cost issues. Given that the club had meeting with fans about the NS, i just assumed it might have come up. No worries though, hopefully if there's a meeting in future, someone will ask.

[potty trained]

 

Hi Tom, maybe i find it strange that no-one seems even considered that there might be additional cost issues. Given that the club had meeting with fans about the NS, i just assumed it might have come up. No worries though, hopefully if there's a meeting in future, someone will ask.

 

There might be a meeting in the future?

 

You think this discussion will come up again here in the future?

 

 

 

 

Interesting.

 

Noted.

[Ross]

Hello there ma darling! It’s La Scimmia Rossa/Red Monkey/Colin – the King Farouk of Partick Thistle forum trollers.

 

It’s been a good a good few years but it’s good to have you back.

 

Times have changed in the last 15 years. Cooking programmes are all the rage, ISIS is on the rise and I’ve developed copious amounts of pubic hair. One thing remains a constant though, you’re trolling.

 

Okay then. Have it your way. Let’s go back to all sitting in the Jackie Husband stand. No atmosphere, even lower crowds than you pertain about the North Stand and a soulless match day experience.

 

I remember the last few games of when I sat in the Jackie Husband stand, the season. There were around 6 or 7 people attempting to get any sort of resemblance of a song going but to no avail.

 

Thankfully, a courageous decision as made to save the atmosphere in Firhill. The move to the North Stand, as stated, wasn’t designed to increase attendances as such. Rather, it was decided the move was a last ditch attempt to increase the atmosphere at a stadium which was on its arse.

 

The first game where around 150-200 attended the North Stand completely blows your theory about it being a failed exercise out of the water. Even with the low attendance in the stand, it felt like it was full with the raucous and continuous singing that glorious August summers day.

 

There was a glorious moment when a Falkirk fan phoned ‘Call Kaye’ (of former Loose Woman fame) on Radio Scotland the following Monday morning to complain about the ‘intimidating’ atmosphere that she, her son, and her fellow Bairns fans had experienced that weekend.

 

There were even NEW songs created that day! By golly!

 

Now whether or not one would agree with the haranguing of away supporters at Firhill, I think it’s safe to say that there had been significant change in the noise volumes from myself and the throngs of the Maryhill Margaritas faithful behind the goal.

 

This continued throughout the rest of the season. The 5-1 Dunfermline game showed a massive increase of fans in the North Stand but more crucially the atmosphere kept getting better and better.

 

Raith Rovers (3-2), Livi (6-1, where some Welsh fans even joined us!) and even the Morton game where we got beat 2-1 around boxing day were incredible times to be in the North Stand. I could keep going on. So I will sister!

 

Who will ever forget the night James Craigan put Morton to the sword? The hundreds of fans streaming from the Jackie Husband stand to the North Stand was a site to behold.

 

It was one of THE great nights to be a Thistle fan.

 

Could you honestly dispute that it would have been the same if the North Stand hadn’t been opened to the home support?

 

As previous people have mentioned, you offer no solution to your bizarre queries. You go on and on about the costs of having the stand open without giving us any concrete figures to back up your ‘concerns’.

 

How about, just for a moment, counting the costs of the amount of fans that would stop going back to Firhill if the North Stand was to be closed? I would be one and I’m sure there would be many others.

 

We have a dwindling, beleaguered support as it is. Stop creating a pseudo civil ware between Thistle fans and get on board with suggestions of improving the atmosphere even further?

 

Hey, this might even lead to more fans attending Firhill!

 

What’s ‘pitiful’ is someone who couldn’t even be bothered attending the game having a go at other Jags fans who did.

 

Your posts are like the Stereophonics, outdated and pointless.

 

[Rid Skwerr]

"Maryhill Margaritas" --- *snigger*

 

Damned auto correct, eh?

 

:-)

[Tom Hosie]

 

Hi Tom, maybe i find it strange that no-one seems even considered that there might be additional cost issues. Given that the club had meeting with fans about the NS, i just assumed it might have come up. No worries though, hopefully if there's a meeting in future, someone will ask.

 

Hi Colin,

 

Thanks for providing an answer to A question but not THE question I asked.

 

Why would it be 'bizarre' that a Thistle fan wouldn't know how much it costs the Club to have the NS open?

 

Happy trolling.

 

Tom

[Tom Hosie]

Ross, have a Like for the Stereophonics comment. :-)