British Imperialism And Proletarian Internationalism

[sigesige00]

Britain is a highly-developed imperialist country, and particularly parasitic and financial one.

In the imperialist countries (such as Britain, Japan, USA) the task of the working class is to overthrow its own ruling class and refuse the myth of "national defense" in any sense.

Defense of imperialist countries means the defense of imperialism. The working class must categorically refuse this, from Ireland to Islas Malvinas, from Iraq to Pakistan, etc.

And, since capitalism is a world system, the overthrow of capitalism can only be done on the world scale. For that aim, the working class must build a world communist party in the real sense of the word.

We already know that the robbery of Iraq has nothing to do with democracy or peace. In fact US/British/Japanese imperialism are the biggest threat to world peace.

[Meister Jag]

Britain is a highly-developed imperialist country, and particularly parasitic and financial one.

In the imperialist countries (such as Britain, Japan, USA) the task of the working class is to overthrow its own ruling class and refuse the myth of "national defense" in any sense.

Defense of imperialist countries means the defense of imperialism. The working class must categorically refuse this, from Ireland to Islas Malvinas, from Iraq to Pakistan, etc.

And, since capitalism is a world system, the overthrow of capitalism can only be done on the world scale. For that aim, the working class must build a world communist party in the real sense of the word.

We already know that the robbery of Iraq has nothing to do with democracy or peace. In fact US/British/Japanese imperialism are the biggest threat to world peace.

 

Siegy, not sure if you're just making a Marxist-Leninist statement (if so well done son) or trying to spark a debate... I'm literally just in from the Bad Manners gig and have work in a few hours. Ma heid is bouncin'... but what a night!

 

Anyway, sitting with a cup of tea and some paracetamol and pondering your new world vision. The wife had to be summonsed from her bed in the wee sma' hours to ensure I was returned to my dacha in deepest Renfrewshire safely and I'm walking on egg shells. Wonderful wummin, even found the time to drop a fellow Jags fan off in darkest Thornliebank. What I'm trying to say is that I'm not exactly tuned into Marx just now but in the spirit of internationalism and as I'm killing time - and don't want to go back to bed in case I miss work - thought I'd give you a some comments straight from the hip....

 

As anyone with a basic understanding of Marxism-Leninism knows, without a genuine communist party (term used as a generic catch-all) of the working class, any serious advance towards socialist revolution is impossible. When analysed, the late 1960s and early 1970s saw a widespread upsurge of the revolutionary movement in a number of western democractic countries e.g. US, Britain and France. In particular, the liberation movements that highlighted the causes of oppressed nationalities, the movement against the war in Vietnam, the student movement, etc. All grew and developed. however, the fact is that the movement among the working class as a whole grew to a lesser extent, at least partly due to the then still favourable economic situation that was prevalent in most imperialist countries at that time. It followed that the so-called "revisionist parties", the Communist Parties of the aforementioned countries and other far-left socialist parties, were unable to capitalise (no pun intended) on the prevailing climate so as to develop a class conscious movement for socialist revolution. Strangely - and you may recall riots and protest that were similar to what is happening today, they could only try to drag this movement back onto the path of reformism.

 

Back in the day, there were many attempts - some serious and others farcical and shambolic - to form a genuine communist party, but all of them ultimately were unsuccessful. It was the failure to build such a party that led to the lack of stable gains from this period of upsurge. The current intensified attack by the ruling class against the working class, the oppressed nationalities and their allies has, to a certain extent, led to another reawakening of the spontaneous movement. In order to be able to take advantage of such a new upsurge, not only to gain reforms but most importantly to develop the movement for socialist revolution, a new vanguard party of the working class must be constructed. In this you are correct, but the fact is that it probably won't happen. Struggle will win small concessions and the status quo will be maintained, we will still go to Burger king and play with our iPhones (don't have one but they do look quite good!). The cuts will be bad but will be followed by better times... and so the capitalist system will be reinvented.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say (badly given the early hour) is that the left is a useful tool for change; but if you're looking for the permananent revolution to start in Britain then you've probably no chance.

 

at the end of the day and in the final analysis, there's sh**e and there's mair sh**te; and I guess this offering falls into the former or the latter. You decide did I mention the bad Manners gig? Bouncin'

[gianlucatoni]

This idiot's trolling again.

 

He's taken his antagonistic bollox from the Gimp's thread and reposted it here.

 

Let's hope the mods shut his IP address off at source (wherever that source may be).

[jaggybunnet]

Britain is a highly-developed imperialist country, and particularly parasitic and financial one.

In the imperialist countries (such as Britain, Japan, USA) the task of the working class is to overthrow its own ruling class and refuse the myth of "national defense" in any sense.

Defense of imperialist countries means the defense of imperialism. The working class must categorically refuse this, from Ireland to Islas Malvinas, from Iraq to Pakistan, etc.

And, since capitalism is a world system, the overthrow of capitalism can only be done on the world scale. For that aim, the working class must build a world communist party in the real sense of the word.

We already know that the robbery of Iraq has nothing to do with democracy or peace. In fact US/British/Japanese imperialism are the biggest threat to world peace.

 

 

all (as usual) the same delude crap, blah blah blah, from people (who ever they are ) with no grip on real life

[hamiltonjag]

Making the Working Class believe they are middle class ensures compliance. Sky TV dishes, LCD TVs, bought Council houses .... the new opiates of the Masses. Might be interesting when C*meron and its vile poodle Clegg's cuts really start biting and redundancies follow. Take away the ability to afford the opiates and you might get some angry ex-iPod owners greetin into their superlager placebo. Nothing on a large enough scale though.

[Charlie Endell]

This idiot's trolling again.

 

He's taken his antagonistic bollox from the Gimp's thread and reposted it here.

 

Let's hope the mods shut his IP address off at source (wherever that source may be).

The offices of Cowan & Co.?

 

I have to say I'm impressed; his / her English has gone from barely intelligible to advanced polemics on Capitalism / Imperialism in no time .

Edited December 30, 2010 by Charlie Endell

[Woodstock Jag]

The distinction between working class and middle class is completely meaningless. The only meaningful class distinction in contemporary western society is between those who work and those who scrounge off the state having never done an honest day's work in their lives.

[hamiltonjag]

The distinction between working class and middle class is completely meaningless. The only meaningful class distinction in contemporary western society is between those who work and those who scrounge off the state having never done an honest day's work in their lives.

In your opinion. I'm sure you really meant to say that, didn't you?

[crazy davie]

This idiot's trolling again.

 

He's taken his antagonistic bollox from the Gimp's thread and reposted it here.

 

Let's hope the mods shut his IP address off at source (wherever that source may be).

He's a funny guy. Not in Gimp's thread, but generally...

[Blackpool Jags]

The distinction between working class and middle class is completely meaningless. The only meaningful class distinction in contemporary western society is between those who work and those who scrounge off the state having never done an honest day's work in their lives.

 

Really? So, the class difference between somebody who's, say, been bequeathed a chain of gas showrooms or car franchises, and lives in a beautiful 5-bedroom house in Bearsden, and somebody who's worked all their life for, or around, the minimum wage, cleaning or labouring and lives in a damp, 2-bedroom council flat in the Butney is indistinguishable or meaningless? Or are you talking about something else; more profound?

 

Of course there are scroungers, but not quite as many as the Torygraph or the Daily Wail would have you believe.

[sandy]

Well said, BJ.

 

No offence WJ, cos I know you are a decent guy, but your politics worry me; there is a surprising number of young Tories in Scotland, too young to have really understood what it was like to live under the Thatcher government. Anyone of my era who lived through the miners strike of the 1980s and saw the damage that w*tch did to local communities and society in general, can not forget or forgive the impact of Tory ideology.

 

Class distinctions still exist. Unfortunately they determine many things. The Daily Mail view of 'scroungers' is a convoluted and very much one-sided.

[jaggybunnet]

Well said, BJ.

 

No offence WJ, cos I know you are a decent guy, but your politics worry me; there is a surprising number of young Tories in Scotland, too young to have really understood what it was like to live under the Thatcher government. Anyone of my era who lived through the miners strike of the 1980s and saw the damage that w*tch unions did to local communities and society in general, can not forget or forgive the impact of Tory union ideology.

 

Class distinctions still exist. Unfortunately they determine many things. The Daily Mail view of 'scroungers' is a convoluted and very much one-sided.

 

 

fixed that for you Sandy

 

only to those with a chip on there shoulder

Edited December 30, 2010 by jaggybunnet

[Woodstock Jag]

Really? So, the class difference between somebody who's, say, been bequeathed a chain of gas showrooms or car franchises, and lives in a beautiful 5-bedroom house in Bearsden, and somebody who's worked all their life for, or around, the minimum wage, cleaning or labouring and lives in a damp, 2-bedroom council flat in the Butney is indistinguishable or meaningless? Or are you talking about something else; more profound?

 

Of course there are scroungers, but not quite as many as the Torygraph or the Daily Wail would have you believe.

 

That's not class differential. That's wealth differential. Not the same thing.

 

The only meaningful class distinction is between those who work and those who are generationally unemployed and live off state hand-outs. There are a lot of people who come squarely under the meaning of "working class" who are miles more affluent and successful than those in the so-called bourgeois middle-class.

 

No offence WJ, cos I know you are a decent guy, but your politics worry me; there is a surprising number of young Tories in Scotland, too young to have really understood what it was like to live under the Thatcher government.

 

First up, I'm not a Tory. I am a libertarian and vote Liberal Democrat.

 

Anyone of my era who lived through the miners strike of the 1980s and saw the damage that w*tch did to local communities and society in general, can not forget or forgive the impact of Tory ideology.

 

No one's saying Thatcher was perfect. I happen to agree that her preferred outcomes (i.e. small state, individual liberty and responsibility and a property owning democracy) were fairly noble aspirations and should always be encouraged. As I've said on here before, though, she went at it hammer and tong too quickly, which was the cause of the long-term problems in industry and manufacturing communities.

 

Class distinctions still exist. Unfortunately they determine many things. The Daily Mail view of 'scroungers' is a convoluted and very much one-sided.

 

The class distinction between working and middle class is bogus. It is a completely artificial barrier that people put up to manufacture collectivist antagonism instead of encouraging individual responsibility as the key to social mobility. The only meaningful class distinction is between the workforce and those who do not work and have no intention of working, and are content to live off benefits. Labour were absolutely disgraceful in building up a benefits system and a public sector that made more and more people dependent on the state.

 

The role of the state, if it is to have ANY role in welfare, is as a safety net to prevent acute poverty and no more. It should not supplement lifestyle choices, it should not actively discourage people from working full-time on the minimum wage and it should get out of people's lives and leave them alone.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Woodstock Jag

[gianlucatoni]

ffs here goes WJ and his over analysis of political threads again ... could be a long shift on this bollox tonight.

[Woodstock Jag]

ffs here goes WJ and his over analysis of political threads again ... could be a long shift on this bollox tonight.

 

Nah, I'm leaving it there. Specific criticism rebuffed and I've got missions to complete on Far Cry 2.

[hamiltonjag]

I've got missions to complete on Far Cry 2.

Invade Poland?

[jaggybunnet]

Invade Poland?

 

 

would be easy, they are all over here

[Woodstock Jag]

Invade Poland?

 

I see what you did there

 

No, as it happens, though. More going on a one man mission to liberate the people of Leboa-Sako from an internationally arms fuelled civil war

[gianlucatoni]

I see what you did there

 

No, as it happens, though. More going on a one man mission to liberate the people of Leboa-Sako from an internationally arms fuelled civil war

 

 

 

mmm ... i see you've still no had your nat king cole ... i'm sure your corporate games console will see you all right again (do you have it on vibrate perchance? )

[Woodstock Jag]

mmm ... i see you've still no had your nat king cole ... i'm sure your corporate games console will see you all right again (do you have it on vibrate perchance? )

 

I don't know if you've ever used a games console before, but if you have, You're doing it wrong.

[Meister Jag]

I don't know if you've ever used a games console before, but if you have, You're doing it wrong.

 

Used a games console for what exactly - are they not sizable big boys? Are you suggesting that lube is best? Out of interest and for future reference, you say that you are a Liberal Dem' libertarian or similar; but what is the difference between you and a young Tory? To my mind you are one and the same person. The only difference - and I hate to say this - is that YT's are programmed from birth to think that they are the masters of the universe. From what I've read, you at least are willing to stand your ground in debate.

 

Also, why the hatred of the unemployed? Do you have a (final) solution or did one of their ranks do you a bad deed once?

[jaggybunnet]

Used a games console for what exactly - are they not sizable big boys? Are you suggesting that lube is best? Out of interest and for future reference, you say that you are a Liberal Dem' libertarian or similar; but what is the difference between you and a young Tory? To my mind you are one and the same person. The only difference - and I hate to say this - is that YT's are programmed from birth to think that they are the masters of the universe. From what I've read, you at least are willing to stand your ground in debate.

 

Also, why the hatred of the unemployed? Do you have a (final) solution or did one of their ranks do you a bad deed once?

 

please dont come out with that rot as you know fine damn well who we are talikng about, it is not hatred of the unemployed, it is a major dislike of those that make no effort to find a job and are happy for us to pay for there life style.

[Meister Jag]

please dont come out with that rot as you know fine damn well who we are talikng about, it is not hatred of the unemployed, it is a major dislike of those that make no effort to find a job and are happy for us to pay for there life style.

 

FFS Jaggy are you on the sherry again...

 

last time I checked ESA for a single guy was about £55 per week. If you're a householder then you need to pay your electricity, gas, part of your Council Tax, buy food, clothes etc out of that princely sum. Not much left over for caviar and cigars then?

 

Not rot btw; a serious point. Not everyone on benefit lives a "Shameless" black economy lifestyle. Take a look at many OAPs who have worked hard but are surviving on what amount to means-tested pensions. We are still light years behind many European countries when it comes to the provision of welfare.

 

A quick closing point is that research from Strathclyde Uni' revealed that the elderly have more chance of dying from the cold in Glasgow than Siberia. Slightly off-topic but of relevance. But good to see the Tories looking out for one of their own.

 

A further point is that my place of employment recently advertised for a handful of staff and we were inundated with in excess of 1500 applications in 3-days. Where the f*** are the jobs that the idle are meant to be turning down? Get real and look at what is being done in your name.

[jaggybunnet]

FFS Jaggy are you on the sherry again...

 

last time I checked ESA for a single guy was about £55 per week. If you're a householder then you need to pay your electricity, gas, part of your Council Tax, buy food, clothes etc out of that princely sum. Not much left over for caviar and cigars then?

 

Not rot btw; a serious point. Not everyone on benefit lives a "Shameless" black economy lifestyle. Take a look at many OAPs who have worked hard but are surviving on what amount to means-tested pensions. We are still light years behind many European countries when it comes to the provision of welfare.

 

A quick closing point is that research from Strathclyde Uni' revealed that the elderly have more chance of dying from the cold in Glasgow than Siberia. Slightly off-topic but of relevance. But good to see the Tories looking out for one of their own.

 

A further point is that my place of employment recently advertised for a handful of staff and we were inundated with in excess of 1500 applications in 3-days. Where the f*** are the jobs that the idle are meant to be turning down? Get real and look at what is being done in your name.

 

you only pay for water rates part of it and (having been to the houseing office with my nephew) that can be waved as well. with all the benifits (rent, CT and the likes) they are on they can be getting (in some cases) around 24K in some areas, no they dont get all of that in there hand but it is still paid for them while some poor sod is trying to live on 15-18K a year while busting a gut.

 

 

just incase you are unsure or the babysham is starting to kick in i am talking about those that dont look for a job not pensioners (surely they are all secure after 13 years of the workers party ) , those that activly try to find jobs

 

yeah i seem to remember that as well late 2008 when i was looking for a job...now who was in power then

[Dragon]

I'd be happy to be on "15-18K a year while busting a gut", but, hey, I ain't becuase of the wonderful people in charge, but, let's not talk about that just the lies Labour spun us all.