lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) I can totally understand why people dont rate the big guy, for me I see something in him and feel he could be a player for us. He looks like a confidence player, the same as Boyle and look at the difference this year in him. I said the same re Boyle last year, for what is worth, give the big guy a chance. This is much my view. To be totally honest I saw Grehan play very poorly in a reserve game at Glasgow Green against Q o S and I thought at the time this guy won't cut it. Then, as I posted earlier, he played well at McDiarmid and immediately after against the Q o S first team. I know I wouldn't be alone in saying he was the best player on the field that day. It's also worth comparing the performance of MG that day against Holmes at Queens. Two directly comparable players in two roughly equal rated teams this season. Holmes, who couldn't lace Grehan's boots that day, was stand in team captain, so obviously rated at Palmerston. Holmes as we've seen can be an effective player and have a dud game. I'm not so sure that dud players can have effective games. So imo Grehan isn't a dud and as Gordie suggests it could be a confidence thing. Don't suppose we'll ever find out if the lad's not given more of a chance. Edited March 20, 2011 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Any manager ideally wants to introduce young players at home rather than at an away game but when a sizeable minority of your support appear to enjoy mocking individual players then whether to start a youngster or not isn't an easy decision. Sorry, but while I usually agree with your contributions, I think this is nonsense to be honest. There can't have been that many fans who booed Grehan off yesterday and to be honest I didn't even notice at the time (only even realised when I read about it later on). I don't agree with booing players off and certainly didn't boo Grehan yesterday. However, this is a "striker" who has scored three goals in 28 performances for Thistle (as compared to Scott Fraser's two goals from eight, all as a sub). That is a surely a dreadful record for a professional and you simply cannot expect people to pay £17 to watch that standard of player (as we are rapidly finding out). Keep him on the books if need be, but he should never be picked ahead of Fraser IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 This is much my view. To be totally honest I saw Grehan play very poorly in a reserve game at Glasgow Green against Q o S and I thought at the time this guy won't cut it. Then, as I posted earlier, he played well at McDiarmid and immediately after against the Q o S first team. I know I wouldn't be alone in saying he was the best player on the field that day. It's also worth comparing the performance of MG that day against Holmes at Queens. Two directly comparable players in two roughly equal rated teams this season. Holmes, who couldn't lace Grehan's boots that day, was stand in team captain, so obviously rated at Palmerston. Holmes as we've seen can be an effective player and have a dud game. I'm not so sure that dud players can have effective games. So imo Grehan isn't a dud and as Gordie suggests it could be a confidence thing. Don't suppose we'll ever find out if the lad's not given more of a chance. I will not disagree that confidence is a big thing for any player. Jesus we spent more than the 1st half of the season talking about buckie in this vain. I regard myself as a person who does not jump to conclusions and accordingly gave Grehan more than his time to get it right. It bursts me watching imho a player who can't cut it ... take the place of Fraser for example who has scored more goals in 1 matchtime than Grehan has scored all season ! As I said in my thread title ..enough is enough in my opinion I cannot watch him anymore! Was he the worst player yesterday ? .. absolutely not.. Utter gash from start to finish. the motm award was a special moment as I reckon the person awarding it was as high as a kite on free wine ! For ever and ever let's move on ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Sorry, but while I usually agree with your contributions, I think this is nonsense to be honest. There can't have been that many fans who booed Grehan off yesterday and to be honest I didn't even notice at the time (only even realised when I read about it later on). I don't agree with booing players off and certainly didn't boo Grehan yesterday. However, this is a "striker" who has scored three goals in 28 performances for Thistle (as compared to Shaun Fraser's two goals from eight, all as a sub). That is a surely a dreadful record for a professional and you simply cannot expect people to pay £17 to watch that standard of player (as we are rapidly finding out). Keep him on the books if need be, but he should never be picked ahead of Fraser IMO. They didn't boo him off. They jeered him with more than a little sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Im a season ticket holder Sir and I have missed only one home game this season. I have been to a few away games also. Clearly not as many as a special supporter like you. However if you feel that Martin is of value in his position as a striker with 2 goals to his name all season! Then you are easily pleased. I, on the other hand am sick to death watching his prancing around the pitch masquerading as a striker ( a striker is someone who scores goals ). If you or anyone else are telling me this is the best we can do then we might as well chuck it ! No he isn't the worst. I have heard Atkins and Hamilton's name mentioned . They were truly gash... yes worse than Grehan.. but only just ! Just how many games do we have to endure watching Martin Grehan ? This isn't about being a special or better supporter, it's about criticising a player who has played very well in some of our best attacking performances this season (namely Raith and Queens away) without him being rightly praised when he's doing well. If those criticising him had seen those performances then I very much doubt we'd have threads like this on here. He was by no means the worst player on the pitch yesterday, nor did he deserve to have his substituion cheered/jeered the way it was. Yes he's only scored 2 goals but there's much more to his play than that and having another presence up front with Doolan has caused some of the better teams in the league problems away from home. It has only been since Buchanan left he's had any sort of run of starts so he can hardly be judged either way on his goal return considering the vast majority of his appearances have been 15-20minutes here and there for the last year. When he's started more than the 12 league games he's done in a year then maybe if he's not scored more goals then it can be used as a stick to beat him with. It wasn't so long ago that Paddy Boyle and Paul Paton were the whipping boys of the support, now it's moved on to Grehan. It's pathetic and it clearly shows what many have thought for years, that some are happiest when complaining. What do you suggest the club do? They don't have the money to go out and simply sign another striker and if you think throwing a 17 year old in when the support are hardly in a forgiving mood then I'd question your sanity. As for "enduring" watching Martin Grehan, I wouldn't describe it as enduring when I watched him put in an excellent performance against Raith Rovers last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I was trying to restrain myself from commenting on this embarrassing thread but can no longer. The person who created this thread clearly has very little appreciation for the ins-and-outs of football; having such pigeonholed views on positions is indicative of that. Football has changed and the position of striker encompasses a lot more than it used to. Scoring goals is an important part of the role but so too is linking up play, bringing others into the game and doing a lot of uncredited work so others can benefit - all of which Grehan does well. People seem to forget that only three years ago, Grehan was playing for Dundonald Bluebell and has only played full-time football for a total of about 18 months (including his time at Motherwell). When Doolan signed initially, he had a great scoring spree but he was being supplied by one of the best and most creative players in the league in Gary Harkins. There is very little creativity in our current side; Erskine doesn't have a clue what he's doing most of the time and Flannigan flatters to deceive. They are really our only two "creative" players. We rely heavily on Paton and Boyle supplying decent deliveries but when that doesn't happen, yesterday for example, we're screwed. I fail to see where this derision has came from. He was far from the worst yesterday. Sure, he missed a couple of chances but it hardly warrants the abuse and the ironic applause when he was subbed. What makes it even more mystifying is that he has been playing well recently and was, in my opinion, our best player in the games against St Johnstone and Queen of the South (away). We have Grehan signed for another year. We're all going to have players we prefer to others but at least give the guy a break and support him while he wears the jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 This isn't about being a special or better supporter, it's about criticising a player who has played very well in some of our best attacking performances this season (namely Raith and Queens away) without him being rightly praised when he's doing well. If those criticising him had seen those performances then I very much doubt we'd have threads like this on here. He was by no means the worst player on the pitch yesterday, nor did he deserve to have his substituion cheered/jeered the way it was. Yes he's only scored 2 goals but there's much more to his play than that and having another presence up front with Doolan has caused some of the better teams in the league problems away from home. It has only been since Buchanan left he's had any sort of run of starts so he can hardly be judged either way on his goal return considering the vast majority of his appearances have been 15-20minutes here and there for the last year. When he's started more than the 12 league games he's done in a year then maybe if he's not scored more goals then it can be used as a stick to beat him with. It wasn't so long ago that Paddy Boyle and Paul Paton were the whipping boys of the support, now it's moved on to Grehan. It's pathetic and it clearly shows what many have thought for years, that some are happiest when complaining. What do you suggest the club do? They don't have the money to go out and simply sign another striker and if you think throwing a 17 year old in when the support are hardly in a forgiving mood then I'd question your sanity. As for "enduring" watching Martin Grehan, I wouldn't describe it as enduring when I watched him put in an excellent performance against Raith Rovers last week. Well well ..lucky you who happened to have seen his best games away from home ! Been utter gash when I have seen him. And I refuse to travel to every away defeat ( yes usually defeats this season ) just to see a memorable Martin Grehan game ! Spin it out all you want but I pay good money to watch my team and imho he is a feckin joke ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 (edited) Sorry, but while I usually agree with your contributions, I think this is nonsense to be honest. There can't have been that many fans who booed Grehan off yesterday and to be honest I didn't even notice at the time (only even realised when I read about it later on). I don't agree with booing players off and certainly didn't boo Grehan yesterday. However, this is a "striker" who has scored three goals in 28 performances for Thistle (as compared to Scott Fraser's two goals from eight, all as a sub). That is a surely a dreadful record for a professional and you simply cannot expect people to pay £17 to watch that standard of player (as we are rapidly finding out). Keep him on the books if need be, but he should never be picked ahead of Fraser IMO. I wasn't for a moment suggesting you boo or agree with booing a player off. I am saying categorically that there's a not too small minority that appear to enjoy jeering and mocking a certain player, which is in effect creating a scapegoat. Cheering when said player gets subbed is probably the most noticeable example of what I'm meaning. I've done it myself when it's been a player who's given a half arsed contribution, but I don't think anyone, yourself included, is saying Grehan doesn't put himself about. So we're basically disagreeing about the guy's potential. You've obviously given up on him and I haven't. I've cited a couple of displays where he's been more than decent, another poster more games than that. Gordie reckons it could be confidence and I tend to agree with him. That said I wouldn't be shocked if Martin G turns out to be worthy of a taxi, I'm just far from certain yet that this is the case. On the other point I was making, regardless what anyone feels about Grehan, I don't think it's it's necessarily wise to simply throw Fraser in as his replacement. I'd hate to see young Shaun's confidence shattered by too much expected too soon. Again our rather vociferous intolerant brigade has much to say in my reasoning. Edited March 20, 2011 by lady-isobel-barnett Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I was trying to restrain myself from commenting on this embarrassing thread but can no longer. The person who created this thread clearly has very little appreciation for the ins-and-outs of football; having such pigeonholed views on positions is indicative of that. Football has changed and the position of striker encompasses a lot more than it used to. Scoring goals is an important part of the role but so too is linking up play, bringing others into the game and doing a lot of uncredited work so others can benefit - all of which Grehan does well. People seem to forget that only three years ago, Grehan was playing for Dundonald Bluebell and has only played full-time football for a total of about 18 months (including his time at Motherwell). When Doolan signed initially, he had a great scoring spree but he was being supplied by one of the best and most creative players in the league in Gary Harkins. There is very little creativity in our current side; Erskine doesn't have a clue what he's doing most of the time and Flannigan flatters to deceive. They are really our only two "creative" players. We rely heavily on Paton and Boyle supplying decent deliveries but when that doesn't happen, yesterday for example, we're screwed. I fail to see where this derision has came from. He was far from the worst yesterday. Sure, he missed a couple of chances but it hardly warrants the abuse and the ironic applause when he was subbed. What makes it even more mystifying is that he has been playing well recently and was, in my opinion, our best player in the games against St Johnstone and Queen of the South (away). We have Grehan signed for another year. We're all going to have players we prefer to others but at least give the guy a break and support him while he wears the jersey. I have only spent the 1st 35 years of my 43 years following the Jags and suddenly i am pigeonholed !! 20 years as a season ticket holder to boot !! Armand 2 ..you are special ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Well well ..lucky you who happened to have seen his best games away from home ! Been utter gash when I have seen him. And I refuse to travel to every away defeat ( yes usually defeats this season ) just to see a memorable Martin Grehan game ! Spin it out all you want but I pay good money to watch my team and imho he is a feckin joke ! Funnily enough when Grehan starts we've tended to do very well in away games. His away starts this season Morton - 2-0 defeat Ross County - 2-0 win Queens - 3-3 draw Cowdenbeath - 1-1 draw Raith Rovers - 2-0 win He's started 4 of the 6 away games we've got any points from this season. That's not spin, it's just facts. Yet again I'll ask what do you suggest the club do with their little resources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I wasn't for a moment suggesting you boo or agree with booing a player off. I am saying categorically that there's a not too small minority that appear to enjoy jeering and mocking a certain player, which is in effect creating a scapegoat. Cheering when said player gets subbed is probably the most noticeable example of what I'm meaning. I've done it myself when it's been a player who's given a half arsed contribution, but I don't think anyone, yourself included, is saying Grehan doesn't put himself about. So we're basically disagreeing about the guy's potential. You've obviously given up on him and I haven't. I've cited a couple of displays where he's been more than decent, another poster more games than that. Gordie reckons it could be confidence and I tend to agree with him. That said I wouldn't be shocked if Martin G turns out to be worthy of a taxi, I'm just far from certain yet that this is the case. On the other point I was making, regardless what anyone feels about Grehan, I don't think it's it's necessarily wise to simply throw Fraser in as his replacement. I'd hate to see young Shaun's confidence shattered by too much expected too soon. Again our rather vociferous intolerant brigade has much to say in my reasoning. Fair points I suppose we will just have to see whether he comes good. I will happily be proved wrong on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy1967 Posted March 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 Funnily enough when Grehan starts we've tended to do very well in away games. His away starts this season Morton - 2-0 defeat Ross County - 2-0 win Queens - 3-3 draw Cowdenbeath - 1-1 draw Raith Rovers - 2-0 win He's started 4 of the 6 away games we've got any points from this season. That's not spin, it's just facts. Yet again I'll ask what do you suggest the club do with their little resources? 8 goals scored and Grehan got 1 at QOS ! I suggest we play younger players like Fraser / Campbell bring back Bannighan. Are you or anyone else seriously trying to tell me that ....what we have ..is the way forward ? Utter joke if that is our way forward. I am amazed at the number of people defending a player who with all respect is so far out of his depth at this level ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 I am amazed at the number of people defending a player who with all respect is so far out of his depth at this level ! So why did McCall give him a contract until May 2012? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 20, 2011 Report Share Posted March 20, 2011 So why did McCall give him a contract until May 2012? Because Grehan wouldn't accept anything longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armand2 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 I have only spent the 1st 35 years of my 43 years following the Jags and suddenly i am pigeonholed !! 20 years as a season ticket holder to boot !! Armand 2 ..you are special ! What? There appears to be only one special one here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pie Of The Month Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 8 goals scored and Grehan got 1 at QOS ! I suggest we play younger players like Fraser / Campbell bring back Bannighan. Are you or anyone else seriously trying to tell me that ....what we have ..is the way forward ? Utter joke if that is our way forward. I am amazed at the number of people defending a player who with all respect is so far out of his depth at this level ! So unless Grehan scores all the goals in those games then he's useless? You should just give it up, you're making yourself look daft with this blind hatred of a player who has been playing well but you can't admit it because you weren't there to see it. If he's so far out of his depth at this level that'll explain why he is one of the very few players who played well away at St Johnstone, the level above where he plays every week. Fraser is 17, why on earth would McCall throw him in and expect him to make a difference when there's people like you who will be destroying his confidence as soon as he doesn't play well? Campbell and Bannigan aren't even strikers so those suggestions are nonsense too. We've had a very good run of games recently with Grehan in the team, I really don't see why it can't be the way forward. If we were losing every week and not scoring any goals then I'd see your point but the fact is that since Grehan has been in the team we've started scoring a few more than we did at the start of the season. I couldn't care less if we had a striker who never scored a goal for the club but brought others into play and allowed us to score more goals but it seems that you demand we have a 20 goal a season striker regardless of any of the other work he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluddy Hell Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Well I just though I would putmy two cents worth into this. I have been to every away game this season, paid my money, watched dross came away feeling like it couldnt get any worse and been proved wrong. Grehan has played well recently, but for some who haven't seen him in those games I can see why youd say hes a waste of a jersy. But I would hazard a guess that now your mind won't be changed on the guy because he doesn't score goals. I bet you people are the same people who think Rowson is done and should be replaced by someone who can pass the ball better. End of the day, Grehan has not started enough games in his time here to merit the abuse he is getting. We had endured Liam not scoring for longer than this and Grehan brings more to the party than Liam did from last season onwards. Now to the point of Grehan not being able to strike a ball properly, yes yesterdays chnce should of been buried but I have seen better strikers miss they kind of chances. Just remember that Liam was hardly the best striker of a ball, theamount of times he went for the keepers near post when oneon one was incredible and never came off due to the lack of power. Give Liam 5 chances in a game and he would score 1, Grehan, to my knowledge, hs never had 5 chances in a game, but has created some for Doolan or any supporting midfield men. As for throwing in Shaun Fraser? Do me a favour, he is a good lad, power and a bit of pace but he is no Connor Wickham, who btw are the same age. To throw Shaun in now when technically we are nor safe nor got nothing to play for would be daft to do. Expectation would get on top of him, let him learn his trade afterall he has only been playing fr 3 years. He will come good eventually but to pin our goalscoring hopes on an unproven 17 year old who has came off the bench around 8 times is stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Stronach Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 He can take Erskine with him. Mental. Absolutely mental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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