policemans whistle Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Scotland gubbed in America 5-1 Why did we bother going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18225772 Apparently we weren't up for the game despite the fact that we were there for a week with the manager and his coaching staff. Levein is an utter trainwreck of a manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18225772 Apparently we weren't up for the game despite the fact that we were there for a week with the manager and his coaching staff. Levein is an utter trainwreck of a manager. "I think a brief assessment of the game would be quite difficult" - We were thrashed. "I have got to recognise that the USA played extremely well" - We were rubbish. "There was one team focused and ready to play and another who looked as though they had finished the season and had nothing to play for." If he can't motivate his side to play against higher ranked opposition, Levein must go now. I said that he was the wrong man for the job when he was appointed. His awful record and negative tactics are totally unacceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/18225772 Apparently we weren't up for the game despite the fact that we were there for a week with the manager and his coaching staff. Levein is an utter trainwreck of a manager. Up until last night - well, this morning (idot face here was daft enough to stay up for the game) - I had been quite supportive of Levein, because the Prague debacle aside, I genuinley felt the team had progressed since the Burley era. That performance, however, ranks among the worst served up by Vogts or Burley: no shots on target (our goal was an OG); no corners won; tactically we were all over the place, with no apparent sense of cohesion at all. Charlie Mulgrew was awful at left-back, Barry Bannan looked like a wee lost boy in midfield (he has subsequently admitted he was shite on Twitter, to his credit) and Shaun Maloney - for all his excellent performances late in the season for Wigan - was completely anonymous. To be honest, I am struggling to think of any player who gained pass marks, with the possible exceptions of Allan McGregor - let down badly by his defence for four of the five goals - and Kenny Miller, who ran about like a West Highland terrier on speed all night but got precious little service from what passed for our midfield. The worrying thing is that it was a pretty strong eleven who started the game. Not full strength, but the majority either play in the EPL or for stronger English Championship teams. I am not arrogant enough to think that we should be going over there and winning - christ, I have been a Scotland fan long enough never to expect that too often; but this wasn't Brazil we were playing. There is no way we should be getting stuffed 5-1 by relatively mediocre teams like the USA. A defeat of this magnitude is simply unacceptable. Questions need to be asked of the man who, bafflingly, instructed his team to start the game at 100mph in hot, humid conditions they simply are not used to, thus leaving them completely out of puff after about 55 minutes. For me, the most worrying thing of all is that this is the guy who is expected to get us to the World Cup finals in two years time! I honestly believe the players we have are capable of doing so, but I now have serious, serious doubts over whether the manager is capable enough to guide them there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 "I think a brief assessment of the game would be quite difficult" - We were thrashed. "I have got to recognise that the USA played extremely well" - We were rubbish. "There was one team focused and ready to play and another who looked as though they had finished the season and had nothing to play for." If he can't motivate his side to play against higher ranked opposition, Levein must go now. I said that he was the wrong man for the job when he was appointed. His awful record and negative tactics are totally unacceptable. The guy is off his trolley if he thinks the USA played extremely well. For a start, they didn't have to. We left so many gaps any team worth their salt would have punished us. The USA are a good side but not a great one. As for as Levein being negative, whilst I accept he usually is, if anything we were too attack-minded last night. Gung-ho attack-minded. Being positive is good, I think that's what most fans want, but we pushed too far up the pitch without leaving people behind to cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Quinn Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 i watched the game in las vegas last night and the american commentary was laughable. When Scotland scored it was 'scotland get the deficit reducer!' when bradley scored it was 'it's bradley with the spitting cobra!' when a player dummied it it was 'great fakey!' the best was when someone done a clumsy challenge n the commentator said 'he's took a knock like a bear kiss!' (wtf) aw the yanks make me laugh. i thought my acid days of the 60s were giving me a flashback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 5-1 certainly wasn't acceptable, but Levein definitely underrated the USA. They are clearly a much better team than us and continually improving, they frequently make the knockout stages of the World Cup after all, compared to 20 years ago when they were cannon fodder at major tournaments if they even made it to them. Sounds like the whole trip was a glorified golf outing for Levein and his bum chums. Theres little to be gained by playing in the heat against a clearly much better team. I'd say there is a reasonable chance Scotland finish bottom of their group without a whipping boy team to sit on. Sadly I don't see much improving either with a change of manager. Any manager with any sort of reputation can do better than Scotland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Levein TF now!! How much longer do we need to tolerate this buffoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackthejag Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 i actually supported levein against all of the critics, we should have done better, and i'm slowly loosing patience with him. its not difficult sticking 2 up front! but tbh who's going to come in and replace him? nobody who could do a good job with scotland will be interested Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 i watched the game in las vegas last night and the american commentary was laughable. When Scotland scored it was 'scotland get the deficit reducer!' when bradley scored it was 'it's bradley with the spitting cobra!' when a player dummied it it was 'great fakey!' the best was when someone done a clumsy challenge n the commentator said 'he's took a knock like a bear kiss!' (wtf) aw the yanks make me laugh. i thought my acid days of the 60s were giving me a flashback! I remember watching a USA vs Canada game once, after Jozy Altidore scored for the US the commentator exclaimed: Jozy loves to score like a fat kid loves eating cake! 5-1 certainly wasn't acceptable, but Levein definitely underrated the USA. They are clearly a much better team than us and continually improving, they frequently make the knockout stages of the World Cup after all, compared to 20 years ago when they were cannon fodder at major tournaments if they even made it to them. Sounds like the whole trip was a glorified golf outing for Levein and his bum chums. Theres little to be gained by playing in the heat against a clearly much better team. I'd say there is a reasonable chance Scotland finish bottom of their group without a whipping boy team to sit on. Sadly I don't see much improving either with a change of manager. Any manager with any sort of reputation can do better than Scotland. It's clear that not only Levein underrated them, during the pre match build up I think it was Pat Nevin who argued that the USA shouldn't be higher than us in the rankings, which are biased due to them getting games against the likes of St Kitts and Nevis to qualify for tournaments. Either way Pat, they're a whole lot better than us and we alll knew that. Anyone who was expecting us to do well needs their head examined, our players have always had trouble motivating themselves even in big games, nevermiind meaningless end of season affairs. American teams in any sport are always motivated, especially at home whilst having to prove their sport isn't a girly game where barely anybody scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantB Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I actually think we have some decent players. It's an absolute crying shame we have a manager who is worse than useless. Can anyone tell me what there was to be learned from playing Kenny Miller (a guy by his own admission was drained before the playoffs with West Ham) up front in a friendly. We all know what Miller brings to a team, surely last night's game was the time to try someone else out in that position. Never mind Stephen Fletcher, how he continually ignores Ross McCormack in favour of one of his Dundee Utd old boys is a sackable offence alone. Also, playing Mulgrew at left back when he is clearly a much much better player at centre half so he can play his old mate Webster there is shameful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 5-1 certainly wasn't acceptable, but Levein definitely underrated the USA. They are clearly a much better team than us and continually improving, they frequently make the knockout stages of the World Cup after all, compared to 20 years ago when they were cannon fodder at major tournaments if they even made it to them. Sounds like the whole trip was a glorified golf outing for Levein and his bum chums. Theres little to be gained by playing in the heat against a clearly much better team. I'd say there is a reasonable chance Scotland finish bottom of their group without a whipping boy team to sit on. Sadly I don't see much improving either with a change of manager. Any manager with any sort of reputation can do better than Scotland. That's the thing though, they're not. Or, at least, they shouldn't be. Their starting eleven included a centre-forward who spent most of last season playing fourth tier football in Germany and a midfielder who is something of a laughing stock in one of the weakest Rangers teams in decades. Okay, that is a deliberately negative portrayal, but on paper there is very little between us and the USA in terms of player quality. What the USA do appear to have in their favour is they play a system that the players are familiar with and an experienced international manager who seems to know what he is doing. The old 'the players just aren't good enough' line doesn't wash with me. Granted, this isn't a vintage crop of Scottish players but they are capable of so much more than the result last night would suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Incognito Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 I actually think we have some decent players. It's an absolute crying shame we have a manager who is worse than useless. Can anyone tell me what there was to be learned from playing Kenny Miller (a guy by his own admission was drained before the playoffs with West Ham) up front in a friendly. We all know what Miller brings to a team, surely last night's game was the time to try someone else out in that position. Never mind Stephen Fletcher, how he continually ignores Ross McCormack in favour of one of his Dundee Utd old boys is a sackable offence alone. Also, playing Mulgrew at left back when he is clearly a much much better player at centre half so he can play his old mate Webster there is shameful. Good post, Grant. His spat with Fletcher is one thing - and in fairness to Levein I don't think he is the one at fault in that little disagreement - but I don't quite understand what Ross McCormack has done to upset him. Okay, McCormack is no world beater, but he has had a far better season at club level than the very ordinary Craig Mackail-Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 That's the thing though, they're not. Or, at least, they shouldn't be. Their starting eleven included a centre-forward who spent most of last season playing fourth tier football in Germany and a midfielder who is something of a laughing stock in one of the weakest Rangers teams in decades. Okay, that is a deliberately negative portrayal, but on paper there is very little between us and the USA in terms of player quality. What the USA do appear to have in their favour is they play a system that the players are familiar with and an experienced international manager who seems to know what he is doing. The old 'the players just aren't good enough' line doesn't wash with me. Granted, this isn't a vintage crop of Scottish players but they are capable of so much more than the result last night would suggest. Levein underestimated them. They have players playing in top leagues all over Europe and in a strong Mexican league, although some seem to think, and probably Levein, if they do not play for a top Premiership or La Liga team they aren't worth a ****. I think this may even be part of our problem. Most of our players are scared to go and play abroad and experience a different culture, most settle for a cushy wage at the Old Firm or at a lower end Premiership or Championship club. Successful nations of a similar stature to us such as Denmark and Croatia have players playing all over the continent. I agree the result wasn't acceptable, but I did not believe at any time we would win the game beforehand, they are an established team in major tournaments while we haven't done a thing for 14 years and have never reached the knockout phase. Even the majority of our Premiership players are lower end who would not look out of place at Championship clubs. For me if and when the manager changes the improvement will be minimal. It will be the same team of technically limited players and headless chickens who could run all day. Remember when George Burley wanted to attack in games and we were just as shite and people called for a more defensive manager? I'm not even sure Fletcher will come back. Levein is a convenient excuse for him not being arsed. The aim for me in the near future should be trying to finish 3rd in the upcoming group. There isn't a chance in hell we will win it, so a realistic aim must be to finish third to give us a good seeding for Euro 2016 when 24 teams will qualify. Sadly I think there is a reasonable chance we finish below one or both of Wales and Macedonia, which would be an absolute disaster and furthermore we do not even make the expanded 24 team field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWM Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 We are playing England in a friendly next summer at Wembley as part of 150 years of the FA. Even their average team should have no problem easily beating us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky jag Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'll hold my hands up, I supported the appointment of Levein, thought he did well with Hearts and Dundee United, had a good record of beating old firm, which in my mind showed he could motivate lesser players to beat bigger teams. He plucked players from relative lower league obscurity who've went on to have good careers, so I was all for giving him a shot. But a lot of that sentiment went out the window 1 minute into Prague, when it was clear we had lined up in a system with no strikers. He hasn't really shown me anything since to make me think he's up to being Scotland manager. He/we were robbed by shocking decisions in the Czech game at Hampden so I'll give him benefit of doubt for this qualifying group, but I just don't see us getting out of that group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 The guy is off his trolley if he thinks the USA played extremely well. For a start, they didn't have to. We left so many gaps any team worth their salt would have punished us. The USA are a good side but not a great one. As for as Levein being negative, whilst I accept he usually is, if anything we were too attack-minded last night. Gung-ho attack-minded. Being positive is good, I think that's what most fans want, but we pushed too far up the pitch without leaving people behind to cover. Maybe that's Levein's plan, so we won't complain when he reverts back to 10 defenders and a goalie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Good post, Grant. His spat with Fletcher is one thing - and in fairness to Levein I don't think he is the one at fault in that little disagreement - but I don't quite understand what Ross McCormack has done to upset him. Okay, McCormack is no world beater, but he has had a far better season at club level than the very ordinary Craig Mackail-Smith. My take on that is that McCormack isn't the kind of player who can play on his own up front, doesn't have the running that Miller has for instance. He is skilful though and can take a goal, would be decent for us if we generally played two up most of the time. Think that's why he doesn't get a look in, while Mackail-Smith can run full pelt all day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uberteeb Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Kenny Miller has been a laughing stock at Cardiff for the vast majority of the season and despite 'being full of running' isn't good enough to lead the line himself. The QC qualifying group has no stand out big team in it but Croatia, Serbia and Belgium are all very solid teams that will dispoe of Scotland easily. They are also playing one of the best Wales teams for years (better than the ones who lost to Russia in the play offs a few years back) who have brilliance in Bale, Ramsey and Bellamy and the rest of their team, paritcularly the midfield is better than Scotland on paper. If Scotland finish above 5th I will be astounded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kni Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Wales, like Scotland, have a managerial problem. Chris Coleman, who was awful at Coventry, is not an international class manager. If Scotland had a decent manager who could bring back Stephen Fletcher, we would have reasonable chance in that group. Our problem is that Moyes, Lambert and even Coyle would turn the job down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Willjag Posted May 28, 2012 Members Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 Was told by someone who's son was a mate of Fletcher a couple of seasons ago when he wasn't getting a regular game at Wolves he'd taken the huff and fell out with McCarthy. So the same situation with Levine. Think it's more a case of Fletcher showing great immaturity more than anything else unfortunately. As for Levine, I'll happily admit I don't attend or even watch on TV (since it went pretty much exclusively to Sky), however, I still think Levine is capable of doing something with these guys if he can get a good settled squad. Ideally he would have an assistant that would instill some Nationalistic pride back in the team becuase I'd say we probably lack that. Past decent Scottish sides have always had good solid Central Defenders, we're short right across the back just now. Hopefully some of the younger guys can buckle down and come good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Quinn Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 well at least we have england to support at the euros...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 well at least we have england to support at the euros...... A.B.E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 A.C.B.E. Dutifully repaired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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