Panorama Tonight

[thornwoodjag]

Simply shocking!!

[Jaggy1967]

Totally agree.

 

How the hell can they allow these 2 countries to host such a prestigious tournament when its fans are outright nazi thugs.

 

Never knew it was quite as bad as that.

 

Not trying to defend the old firm and their bile but maybe they would have been better checking these people out rather than worrying about a few songs or pathetic banners.

[chunky jag]

 

 

Not trying to defend the old firm and their bile but maybe they would have been better checking these people out rather than worrying about a few songs or pathetic banners.

 

I was thinking something similar. Scotland's forever under pressure for songs etc, whilst of course they are not right, you'd think UEFA/FIFA would get their priorities straight.

[jags on tour]

yeah it was awful, I thought the skysports coverage was bad with the wee tadgers having an organised fight and doing nazi salutes but that part when the indian home fans are being beaten up by fellow supporters was terrible, words can't describe it.

Uefa and Fifa or whatever joke organistation makes these decision should give the next world cup to Afghanistan as it will leave a legacy there aswell like in Qatar, who cares about what threat there is to travelling fans, who cares about the fans at all.

The Ukraine and Poland games are going to be interesting to see if the Police do anything about the racism, they should just say if they hear one monkey chant or see a nazi salute then they will forfeit the game. They're fans will never change though so I doubt it would matter much, it would probably suit them as they would get to leave and start rioting with other fans. England fans must need their heads checked if they want to go over there.

[Jaggy1967]

The sight off those poor Indian lads sitting in the family section and being set upon from all different angles was truly sickening.

 

I can only hope that these people are not allowed to group together in a big enough mass to create that much trouble at a match.

 

Walk the streeets before and after a match .... No thanks !

 

I was thinking of taking a city trip to Warsaw next year for a long weekend but don't think that will be happening now.

[Guy Incognito]

The sight off those poor Indian lads sitting in the family section and being set upon from all different angles was truly sickening.

 

I can only hope that these people are not allowed to group together in a big enough mass to create that much trouble at a match.

 

Walk the streeets before and after a match .... No thanks !

 

I was thinking of taking a city trip to Warsaw next year for a long weekend but don't think that will be happening now.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound a bit like one of those people who are terrified to set foot in Glasgow because they have heard the murder rate is high! Every city, to varying degrees, contains morons and bigots. I would never judge a place based simply on one 30 minute documentary. Besides, there are plenty of decent Polish folk in Scotland, so it stands to reason that should be plenty more back in Poland itself.

 

I haven't seen the programme yet - and I probably should watch it before I make many more comments - but generally speaking I think hosting a tournament as large and prestigious the Euros could, ultimately, be beneficial for society in Poland and Ukraine. I am guessing both countries are pretty homogeneous in terms of ethnic make-up, so enabling their people to interact with fans from other cultures and backgrounds and letting them see that they really aren't so different after all could be a good thing; bigotry usually stems from ignorance.

 

On the other hand, perhaps I am being naive.

[Armand2]

I haven't seen the programme yet - and I probably should watch it before I make many more comments - but generally speaking I think hosting a tournament as large and prestigious the Euros could, ultimately, be beneficial for society in Poland and Ukraine. I am guessing both countries are pretty homogeneous in terms of ethnic make-up, so enabling their people to interact with fans from other cultures and backgrounds and letting them see that they really aren't so different after all could be a good thing; bigotry usually stems from ignorance.

 

I actually think it could have the opposite effect and totally hammer tourism in both countries. You'll need to watch the documentary to appreciate where I and the rest of the posters are coming from but I severely doubt they'll be batting tourists off with a sh*tty stick. Or maybe they will...literally.

 

The most disgusting thing was the denial from the Ukrainian Chief of Police that blatant racism, fascism and xenophobia is rife in their football grounds, followed swiftly by Shevchenko claiming that there is "no real problem" with racism in the country. The footage of the Asian students being hounded was sickening and it really begs the question of whether Ukraine, and not forgetting Poland, are suitable venues for such a prestigious tournament.

 

The one thing that is blatantly obvious, going on the choice of recent host countries, is that there is a helluva lot more to any bidding process than simply whether the country is a deserving recipient; FIFA must recycle a tremendous amount of brown envelopes.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Armand2

[twinny]

Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound a bit like one of those people who are terrified to set foot in Glasgow because they have heard the murder rate is high! Every city, to varying degrees, contains morons and bigots. I would never judge a place based simply on one 30 minute documentary. Besides, there are plenty of decent Polish folk in Scotland, so it stands to reason that should be plenty more back in Poland itself.

 

I haven't seen the programme yet - and I probably should watch it before I make many more comments - but generally speaking I think hosting a tournament as large and prestigious the Euros could, ultimately, be beneficial for society in Poland and Ukraine. I am guessing both countries are pretty homogeneous in terms of ethnic make-up, so enabling their people to interact with fans from other cultures and backgrounds and letting them see that they really aren't so different after all could be a good thing; bigotry usually stems from ignorance.

 

On the other hand, perhaps I am being naive.

 

I think it is more that if you are going to a Kharkiv to watch a match where there are thousands of ultra fans spouting fascist nonsense, there could be troops of them who live in the area turning up to start nonsense when Portugal turn up for their game, a country featuring a number of black players, and probably a lot of black fans.

[Willjag]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEnSPer-Cmg

 

The guys probably thought they were safe wearing home team colours as well. ( I presume they were in the home end?)

[Jaggy1967]

Please don't take this the wrong way but you sound a bit like one of those people who are terrified to set foot in Glasgow because they have heard the murder rate is high! Every city, to varying degrees, contains morons and bigots. I would never judge a place based simply on one 30 minute documentary. Besides, there are plenty of decent Polish folk in Scotland, so it stands to reason that should be plenty more back in Poland itself.

 

I haven't seen the programme yet - and I probably should watch it before I make many more comments - but generally speaking I think hosting a tournament as large and prestigious the Euros could, ultimately, be beneficial for society in Poland and Ukraine. I am guessing both countries are pretty homogeneous in terms of ethnic make-up, so enabling their people to interact with fans from other cultures and backgrounds and letting them see that they really aren't so different after all could be a good thing; bigotry usually stems from ignorance.

 

On the other hand, perhaps I am being naive.

 

Yes that sounds like me .. scared of my own shadow lol

 

Perhaps you should have watched the programme prior to posting. This would have allowed you to realise the context of my post.before making a generalisation.

 

I am not so niave to think all Polish / Ukrainian people are mindless nazi thugs, but when you see the police ignoring and in one case deny obvious it does make you question their deep rooted beliefs.

 

Is this a socially acceptable way to behave if you are a native of these host countries ?

[Lambies Lost Doo]

Don't want to sound racist but ehm I'm glad to be white. Even places like Italy and France are a lot further behind in thinking on race and colour. Seen Eastern Europeans have a go at London born Black and Asians when in the pub here a couple of times. Only a couple of times but it's not nice and you remember stuff like that. Friends from work also have said they need to consider where they go on holiday as places would not be so welcoming when I don't need to worry just because my skin colour is a very pale white. I felt really sorry for those Indian lads in the documentary.

[uberteeb]

What it exposed is terrible but it was a TV programme designed to be shocking.

 

Prior to Euro 1996 could another country have found video of evidence of racism in English football? Could they have found people getting battered in the stands? Could they have found the authorities playing the events down? You can answer yes to all of these, the only difference was the numbers involved in the racist chanting would be less and there were no 'white power' style banners on display.

 

Turkey are shoe ins for the Euro 2020 and they have massive problems with crowd violence and racism as well.

 

I really don't expect anything major to kick off at these Euros.

[Guest fredthecheesecloth]

The programme was sensationalist, and I agree with uberglugg's comments. If it had been a plain documentary nobody would have been talking about it.

[Duck snort]

The programme was sensationalist, and I agree with uberglugg's comments. If it had been a plain documentary nobody would have been talking about it.

 

Agree completely. There's no doubt there are issues in both countries but I'm pretty sure with the increased security in place at the Euros there won't be many issues. Sol Campbell's comments about fans coming home in coffins were way over the top.

 

The footage from Poland all seemed to be about club rivalry rather than genuine anti-semitism and while I've never been to Poland I know many that have who all loved the place.

 

Having been in Kiev in 2006 for the Scotland game I know there are issues with hooligans. While we managed to avoid the trouble it is definitely the most uncomfortable I've felt anywhere in Europe over 15 years of following Scotland. However, virtually everyone we met was friendly and welcoming.

 

There were similar programmes before the South Africa World Cup highlighting how dangerous a place it is, but I don't remember hearing about any major issues for fans during the tournament.

 

Wonder if Ukrainian and Polish TV are doing documentaries about London prior to the Olympics including footage of last summer's riots.

 

Having said all that both countries do appear to have their heads in the sand when it comes to dealing with racism. However, so do FIFA and UEFA. They talk a good game but their actions have been weak. Celtic were fined more for being a minute late on the pitch after half time than clubs were for racist chanting.

[Vladimir Putin]

Don't want to sound racist but ehm I'm glad to be white. Even places like Italy and France are a lot further behind in thinking on race and colour. Seen Eastern Europeans have a go at London born Black and Asians when in the pub here a couple of times. Only a couple of times but it's not nice and you remember stuff like that. Friends from work also have said they need to consider where they go on holiday as places would not be so welcoming when I don't need to worry just because my skin colour is a very pale white. I felt really sorry for those Indian lads in the documentary.

 

And how far behind is Scotland when it comes to religious bigotry? As Duck Snort says, you could show footage of the London riots to discourage people from visiting the Olympics, or show Rangers fans in Manchester as proof that Scotland should never be allowed to host a major tournament. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with this in Eastern Europe, I have seen and heard plenty of examples here in Russia, but we don't have much high ground to stand on.

[Norgethistle]

 

 

And how far behind is Scotland when it comes to religious bigotry? As Duck Snort says, you could show footage of the London riots to discourage people from visiting the Olympics, or show Rangers fans in Manchester as proof that Scotland should never be allowed to host a major tournament. I'm not saying that there isn't a problem with this in Eastern Europe, I have seen and heard plenty of examples here in Russia, but we don't have much high ground to stand on.

There was a program on Norwegian telly recently about this and the old firm vile, where the camera crews had to quickly leave a rangers pub when they started to ask some loaded questions, my Morwegian workmates were shocked this goes on and the authority's do nothing about it, will try and find a link for it

[Guy Incognito]

Yes that sounds like me .. scared of my own shadow lol

 

Perhaps you should have watched the programme prior to posting. This would have allowed you to realise the context of my post.before making a generalisation.

 

I am not so niave to think all Polish / Ukrainian people are mindless nazi thugs, but when you see the police ignoring and in one case deny obvious it does make you question their deep rooted beliefs.

 

Is this a socially acceptable way to behave if you are a native of these host countries ?

 

Okay, I have seen the documentary now and some of the footage was appalling. It wasn't just the anti-semetic and racist stuff - the general level of violence at some of the games, particularly in Ukraine, took my breath away. To answer your question, no of course it isn't an acceptable way to behave. I felt particularly sorry for those Indian boys and I think they could be forgiven if they decided not to prolong their stay in the country.

 

However, I still don't think it should stop you from visiting Poland, if you really fancy it. Some of their cities, such as Krakow, look really beautiful. And if you do bump in to any football hooligans just tell them you are NGE - they are bound to leave you alone then. ;

 

Don't want to sound racist but ehm I'm glad to be white. Even places like Italy and France are a lot further behind in thinking on race and colour. Seen Eastern Europeans have a go at London born Black and Asians when in the pub here a couple of times. Only a couple of times but it's not nice and you remember stuff like that. Friends from work also have said they need to consider where they go on holiday as places would not be so welcoming when I don't need to worry just because my skin colour is a very pale white. I felt really sorry for those Indian lads in the documentary.

 

I reckon your black friends might advise you against entering certain areas of London with your very pale white skin though. Even in Glasgow there are currently two men awaiting trial for a racist killing - neither of them are white but their victim was. Therein lies the problem with racism: anyone can be a perpetrator and anyone can be a victim.

 

There was a program on Norwegian telly recently about this and the old firm vile, where the camera crews had to quickly leave a rangers pub when they started to ask some loaded questions, my Morwegian workmates were shocked this goes on and the authority's do nothing about it, will try and find a link for it

 

There was also a documentary produced by a Canadian film company about gang violence in the city - conveniently released around the time Glasgow was bidding against a Canadian city to host the Commonwealth games.

[Kirkie Jag]

was thinking of taking a city trip to Warsaw next year for a long weekend but don't think that will be happening now.

 

There must be a lot of countries then you don't visit if that program would stop you going to Warsaw. Warsaw is just as safe as any other major European city.

I personally thought it was a disappointing show, it didn't really expose much that people didn't already know. Every country in Europe has some trouble, I've seen it before in France and Italy, but I would say Ukraine has far bigger problems than football hooligans. Also, for Sol Campbell to say they shouldn't get to host it when only a few years ago he was being racially abused in England.

[lennythistle]

some of the scenes were shocking.

 

Though was it any different or worse than what happens during almost every old firm game? English riots last year were as bad. come to think of it, usually when England play abroad, they trash the city/town in which they are based. German world Cup, there were english fans in one of the nazi concentration camps doing nazi salutes....how tasteful!

 

Think the English had a cheek with this and for weeks have been giving the impression of holier than thou.Think all they did with this show was set up their excuse when their own set about smashing up Ukraine.