Simple Poll For Our Chairman To See

[thistle4tw]

I am confident we will vote against this.however I am unconfident they will be shoved in the third division where they belong. If they are my faith will be partially restored

[Jackthejag]

newco should never be in division 1 but my love for thistle is too much not to attend every game

[Jago1953]

I have already renewed my season ticket & will never desert Thistle. life is not always fair & clear cut & yes sometimes

the bad guys win or get a lucky break.

However,should the New Co be admitted to Div 1 I would suggest a 25 point penalty or else Div 3 with no penalty points.

Also I do not think they would easily win league as everyone is presuming.

[JAGSMAN1968]

newco should never be in division 1 but my love for thistle is too much not to attend every game

tend to agree, have supported Jags since'68. So would be very hard to stop!!

No way would I go to castle greyskull and would think hard about even going to Firhill if newco were playing us.

Have already renewed ST therefore would would ask for a refund and simply PATG if they are allowed in div 1.

[uberteeb]

Notwithstanding the flawed structure of the poll, the result is already looking clear: a 7-1 result against any "new" football team being allowed immediate entry to Div. 1.

 

What do you mean?

[Jaggernaut]

What do you mean?

 

I think some additional options would have been useful, e.g. holding back on other sources of income for the club, requesting a refund for season tickets already bought...

[Jaggernaut]

E-mailed to the club today:

 

Dear PTFC,

 

This message will be brief and to the point: If it emerges that PTFC vote in favour of admitting a newly formed football club (one formed from the ashes of the defunct RFC) directly into the SFL Division 1, then I will request a refund of my season-ticket money, and I will no longer attend any Scottish football matches.

 

The rules that a new club must follow for entry to the SFL are clear; there must be no preferential treatment for a so-called "newco". Any financial benefits of allowing a newco directly into SFL Division 1 would be both limited and short-term, and I suspect worthless in the long-term as many disgusted fans are prepared to desert football in general and PTFC in particular for ever.

 

For me, the only acceptable conditions for a newco getting direct entry to SFL Division 1 would be:

 

An enlarged SPL (14 or 16 teams),

 

with 2 relegation and 2 promotion spots every season,

 

and agreement for "newco" to bypass the lowest league through a majority of all the non-SPL clubs.

 

There is a strong and widespread revulsion amongst 1st division football fans at the idea that next season might suddenly change as a result of rule-bending to accommodate a newco in the Division. Such special treatment for "newco" would be a clear sign that other clubs are complicit in all the injustices and power anomalies that have dragged Scottish football so low down in recent decades.

 

I would urge the Club, should it be called upon to vote on the matter, to ensure that sporting integrity is given the highest possible priority when casting the vote. Anything else, involving compromise for the sake of financial gain, would be to devalue football in Scotland even more than the recent scandals (and possibly crimes) involving RFC.

 

Yours sincerely,

[Norman]

I can think of too many instances from the past where claiming the moral high ground has ended up being to the detriment of our club.

 

Why don't we just accept what works best for Partick Thistle Football Club and not let it weigh on our conscience for once?

[Jaggernaut]

I can think of too many instances from the past where claiming the moral high ground has ended up being to the detriment of our club.

 

Why don't we just accept what works best for Partick Thistle Football Club and not let it weigh on our conscience for once?

 

That sounds good, but the big issue is "what works best". Is it a small payoff from the defunct h u n s (i.e., two home games against them, so an extra 10,000 fans or so over the season, minus our own fans who'll stay away and increased policing and stewarding costs) to allow them to overtake us on the fast lane back to the SPL? That doesn't look like a good deal to me at all. Oh, and it's morally reprehensible too.

[Norman]

That sounds good, but the big issue is "what works best". Is it a small payoff from the defunct h u n s (i.e., two home games against them, so an extra 10,000 fans or so over the season, minus our own fans who'll stay away and increased policing and stewarding costs) to allow them to overtake us on the fast lane back to the SPL? That doesn't look like a good deal to me at all. Oh, and it's morally reprehensible too.

I'm not arguing the morality of such a decision, nor am I advocating that we should definitely allow newco into division 1.

 

What I'm saying is we should take the morality out of the debate and make the decision purely on what is best for Partick Thistle.

 

That may be voting for newco into SFL3 or SFL1 or into a new setup. But whatever the decision, it should be based on what is best for our club rather than what gives us a cosy feeling of self satisfaction when we cuddle down to sleep at night.

[Jaggernaut]

I'm not arguing the morality of such a decision, nor am I advocating that we should definitely allow newco into division 1.

 

What I'm saying is we should take the morality out of the debate and make the decision purely on what is best for Partick Thistle.

 

That may be voting for newco into SFL3 or SFL1 or into a new setup. But whatever the decision, it should be based on what is best for our club rather than what gives us a cosy feeling of self satisfaction when we cuddle down to sleep at night.

 

I get what you're saying, but not what you're proposing. What do you think is best for Partick Thistle? Here are a few options:

 

Accept newco into Division 1? (For: maybe increased money next season. Against: loss of home supporters; lessened chance of promotion, acceptance of the fact that certain clubs in Scotland will always get special treatment).

 

Accept newco into Division 3: (For: increased money for all SFL teams at some point over the next few seasons; acknowledgement that the rules have been adhered to. Against: can't see anything major).

 

Accept newco into Division 1 if it becomes the 2nd tier of the SPL? What changes to the SPL are then considered best for Thistle?

 

From the above options and given that the third is only speculative, I think that the only proper option is that the newco applies for a place in Division 3.

[Norman]

I get what you're saying, but not what you're proposing. What do you think is best for Partick Thistle?

To be brutally honest, I don't have a firking clue!

 

I'd like to think that sending them to the 3rd worked best for us and that way we'd survive with our conscience intact, but if it turned out that an alternative was of greater benefit to our club then I'd support the board in making that decision.

[Jaggernaut]

To be brutally honest, I don't have a firking clue!

 

I'd like to think that sending them to the 3rd worked best for us and that way we'd survive with our conscience intact, but if it turned out that an alternative was of greater benefit to our club then I'd support the board in making that decision.

 

Join the club!

 

What I struggle with is the notion that any bending over backwards to favour a fast-track return to the SPL for newco could be of greater benefit for our club (or any others), as it would be forever tainted with the explicit trading away of sporting integrity for commercial gain. Not specifically match fixing, but core structure fixing; just as bad, if not worse.

[redandyellowallover]

I get what you're saying, but not what you're proposing. What do you think is best for Partick Thistle? Here are a few options:

 

Accept newco into Division 1? (For: maybe increased money next season. Against: loss of home supporters; lessened chance of promotion, acceptance of the fact that certain clubs in Scotland will always get special treatment).

 

Accept newco into Division 3: (For: increased money for all SFL teams at some point over the next few seasons; acknowledgement that the rules have been adhered to. Against: can't see anything major).

 

Accept newco into Division 1 if it becomes the 2nd tier of the SPL? What changes to the SPL are then considered best for Thistle?

 

From the above options and given that the third is only speculative, I think that the only proper option is that the newco applies for a place in Division 3.

 

After the reaction of the fans over the past day or so, it's obvious the best thing for Partick Thistle is to come out in complete opposition of Newco in Div 1.

 

If they end up there regardless, then the club cannot be held responsible.

[uberteeb]

I'm not arguing the morality of such a decision, nor am I advocating that we should definitely allow newco into division 1.

 

What I'm saying is we should take the morality out of the debate and make the decision purely on what is best for Partick Thistle.

 

That may be voting for newco into SFL3 or SFL1 or into a new setup. But whatever the decision, it should be based on what is best for our club rather than what gives us a cosy feeling of self satisfaction when we cuddle down to sleep at night.

 

Without morals we have nothing.

[Blackpool Jags]

Without morals we have nothing.

 

Agreed 100%. If Mr Beattie chooses to ignore the strength of the fans' feeling on this, he will effectively be ripping the very fabric of our club apart. Without some basic principles we are indeed nothing.

 

I fear that the sway of the lodges - both Masonic and Orange - will contort the final outcome to some or other extent, but please oh please never let it be thought, suggested or proven that we had any truck with either of these ridiculous secret societies.

 

Would I walk away from Thistle (ie give up my 10-11 games a year) if we voted to accept the unacceptable? Being totally honest, I'm not sure but it would stick in my craw knowing that we had voted to reward utter corruption.

 

This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to have a say in booting these criminals and quasi-criminals into the long grass of SFL Div 3. I urge you, Mr Beattie, to do the right thing and have no part - at least on our behalf - in allowing corruption to triumph over basic decency.

[Gordie]

On the other hand Mr Beattie, please have a hand in bringing the game back to into the hands of the smaller clubs, make sure we get a say. If the do come to the sfl, it's on our terms.

[stillresigned]

To paraphrase Fat Sally, if the powers that be arrive at some gerrymandered compromise viz. the Currant Buns I can and will walk away.

[Jaggyman]

On the other hand Mr Beattie, please have a hand in bringing the game back to into the hands of the smaller clubs, make sure we get a say. If the do come to the sfl, it's on our terms.

 

SFL terms should be that there is a play off place between div 1 and SPL , a more equal share of any monies. League reconstruction to be talked about and implemented ( if agreed) in 2 or 3 years, Newco start in div3

 

If ALL of these are not acceptable then newco dont get entry to sfl they have to apply along with spartans pollok or whoever

[uberteeb]

A coulple of things for people to consider on top of what has been discussed.

 

Zombie Rangers will emerge again, they will inevitably re-enter Scottish football at some point, be it next season or after an SFA ban. So they go in at SFL3 and even when the vast majority of the orcs don't attend they will still have the attendances to walk SFL3 and SFL2. In other words we get our attendance money down the line anyway, can't we wait 2 years for this whilst maintaining sporting integrity? What's the difference?

 

Once Zombie Rangers are confirmed out of the SPL all this league reconstruction and cash redistribution can still happen, in fact it can happen if the Zombie never re-emerges because Celtic can't block everything themselves. And whatsmore the biggest potential problem to a Zombie Rangers going SFL3 -> SFL2 -> SFL1 -> SPL in consecutive years will be the bottleneck caused by the one up one down between SFL1 and SPL. So the appetitite to bring in a play off will still be there whether they are parachuted into SFL1 or SFL3.

 

In short, if they join SFL3 all of the stuff proposed will still happen when they get to SFL1 in 2 or maybe at worst 3 years so lets not be bitches.

[Jagsfan58]

Got my ST as usual, though do not want Newco with us in SFL1. There is no way they should be allowed into SFL1 and as for SFL3, Spartans and Deveronvale have more history and a right to apply than some new team!

 

If the worst came to the worst and they were admitted, I'd still support the Jags as usual, with the one exception being away games against Newco!

 

The currant buns are rubbing their hands at the thought of clubs going bust for not supporting them, I'm not intending helping them get their jollies by staying away. Hopefully sanity will prevail and they start no higher then SFL3 (lower would be nice)

 

Oh for those that saw the rumours of a possible Newco takeover of Bury, I have to say Bury Rangers would be a rather appropriate name!

[Norgethistle]

Got my ST as usual, though do not want Newco with us in SFL1. There is no way they should be allowed into SFL1 and as for SFL3, Spartans and Deveronvale have more history and a right to apply than some new team!

 

If the worst came to the worst and they were admitted, I'd still support the Jags as usual, with the one exception being away games against Newco!

 

The currant buns are rubbing their hands at the thought of clubs going bust for not supporting them, I'm not intending helping them get their jollies by staying away. Hopefully sanity will prevail and they start no higher then SFL3 (lower would be nice)

 

Oh for those that saw the rumours of a possible Newco takeover of Bury, I have to say Bury Rangers would be a rather appropriate name!

More chance of them going bust by supporting them as they drive away their own fans

Edited June 26, 2012 by Norgethistle

[Juan Kerr]

I can't answer the poll as I've already got my Season ticket. This was based on a previous oath regarding the end of the previous chairman's reign.

 

Here's another oath though: If we are complicit in allowing TTFKAR to parachute, rappel, abseil or otherwise drop into Division 1 I'll be posting it back with a polite request for a refund.

 

I've been saying for weeks that Scottish football is a 2nd rate sport run by 3rd rate businessmen and administrators. If you take away the sport aspect, what's left? Of course this is far more eloquently put by the quote I've seen flying around recently regarding "look after the sport and the money will follow, look after the money and you'll kill the sport."

 

If anything other than TTFKAR applying to the lowest teir of Scottish proffesional football happens, what's the point of any of us turning up either to play, support or run another football club?

[Fellow Traveller]

Following Raith Rovers' strong statement in today's Record, seems that Mr Rae at Greenock is also coming out for putting them in the Third Division. After the early cheerleading for Div One by our chairman, followed by a defensive step back into vague mealy-mouthed humming and hawing, how about giving us one more crystal clear statement that stands solid with our SFL sporting rivals/brothers in arms?

 

I'd hate to think when this is all over and done with that Thistle are left in the history books with the stance we've got at the moment.

[Allan Heron]

Bumped into someone last night who had been in the company of Jackie McNamara and Neil McCann about a week ago and some function or other.

 

Anyway, comments attributed to Jackie sounded like he could see no benefit from a footballing perspective of Rangers being allowed to enter SFL1. I hope he's been sending that message to the board of directors.