Robert Dunn's Potential Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 We need to get our story straight - and so does our Chairman heading into the imminent meeting to discuss the The Rangers issue. It's important that we are clear that we aren't doing this to dance on anyone's grave, we're not holding opinions out of bloody-mindedness - this is about the fabric of Scottish football and all that is important in creating a level playing-field. 1 - Rangers cannot be punished. Even if people wanted to. They are like Third Lanark - a club from Scottish football history and therefore any punishment meted out to Rangers is simply hammering additional nails into a coffin that is already firmly shut. 2 - The Rangers (newco) should not be punished - it hasn't done anything wrong. What should happen is that it should be treated like any other club and follow the process that the likes of ICT, Ross County, Peterhead, Elgin and Annan have followed in recent years. Application to join the league as any other club would and its bid accepted or rejected on its merits. Finally, as Jags fans we now need to step up and use this incident as a rallying call to make that extra effort to support the club on and off the park. For most of us, that is predicated on the Board making the honourable decision to treat The Rangers (newco) like every other club and make sporting integrity paramount in our game. If that happens, I will get myself signed up to the Centenary Club and make the effort this season to get to at least half a dozen extra games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I think most fans (of all non-OF clubs) understand this. It's those trying to promote the Newco (including the monkey media who see their free booze, Ibrox pies and succulent lamb disappearing) who keeping trying to muddy the waters. They need the ex-RFC fans support (and s.t. money) and they are also trying to con players into signing up to the Newco when they have the right to walk away. In fact the whole success of the newco depends on them pretending to be Rangers while at the same time not being due any of the punishments RFC would be due if they still existed. Edited to add. Re our club voting for Newco in Div 1 I don't think that's going to happen, in fact I'm sure it won't. Such a vote would go to the whole league and I don't see Div2/Div3 voting to miss out on a possible money spinner (though it's possible it won't be such a great one as they think). What's more likely is the league reconstruction. Someone's already posted in detail about this on another thread so I'll try to be brief with my own take on this. This would mean clubs in div 1 being invited to join the SPL and newco dropped into the new SPL2 - i.e. entering at the bottom of the new SPL double league. I personally think this would be wrong but I can see some chairmen convincing themselves that this would be OK. Of course it's going to be very difficult to get all that in place in time for the next season. So they may be forced to apply to league div 3. Even that, though acceptable to most fans, would be against league rules as they don't have three years of accounts. Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix1876 Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 This aint gonna be pretty, im not all clued up on this subject but I know the large majority of javs fans will oppose everything you just said. Let me get some popcorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Passenger Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I know the large majority of javs fans will oppose everything you just said. Really? Why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The Rangers" ie Zombie Newco Rangers will be difficult to punish if they claim to be a completely new entity, however if they claim that then they will eb treated like any new applicant club to the SFL which means applying for a place in SFL3 and if they succeed at a vote they get into the league. Im really hoping the SFL meeting today comes out and says Zombie Rangers to SFL3 is the only option, i fear anything different will end up with fanswalking away from a lot of clubs never to return. The club have to choose , do they want the lifeblood of their clubs to continue supporting them or do they want the 30 pieces of silver to get a one off payment from the h*ns ? TO me its an easy choice, you dont **** off your key customer base for a quick few quid. Thistle are now completely aware of how a lot of us are feeling after many emails and phone calls etc , Morton and Falkirk fans have done the same surely they nip this in the bud today and we can go back to supporting our own clubs again and not having to care whether we are being stiched up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) None of the media (surprise there!) points out that with all the other things hovering about - investigation into D&P and Whyte for instance, the BDO possibly overturning what D&P have done with regards selling to Green, the possibility of Green just pulling the plug if he sees no profit margin - the Newco could collapse. Suppose it's let into a division and starts the season, then various things happen, they no longer have right to assets (e.g. the ground they play in) and we have another disaster right in the middle of a new season. The idea that any Newco will overnight become the old RFC powerhouse is totally wrong. I think if it's allowed to come into existence with the same or similar chancers in charge, another disaster would just be waiting to happen. Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Of course it's going to be very difficult to get all that in place in time for the next season. So they may be forced to apply to league div 3. Even that, though acceptable to most fans, would be against league rules as they don't have three years of accounts. I've seen the three years of accounts thing mentioned in respect of taking part in European competitions. Is that definitely a rule for membership of the SFL? I could very easily have missed it, but from what I saw, all members are required to keep a proper set of accounts available for inspection, but I didn't see where it was mentioned in regards to joining the SFL. What I did see was that before you can become a member of the League, you have to complete four successive years as an associate member, and associate members have no voting rights or entitlement to a share of the League's assets. (You also have to come up with £1,000, but they could probably still scrape that up.) Of course, all these things we humorously call rules can be dumped in the bin at a moment's notice, but they really must apply to join and be treated on an equal footing with Spartans or anyone else. If our chairman ignores fan feelings on this and votes for anything else, trouble lies ahead and that would be an incredibly stupid self-inflicted wound when we seemed to be getting our little corner of the world sorted out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) DU - I may be mixing the two up in my head. But of course they don't have SFA registration yet. We're having all this argument about a club that actually doesn't officially exist, there shouldn't even have been a meeting arranged to vote over letting them in until that was sorted out ... but of course as you so rightly say "all these things we humorously call rules can be dumped in the bin at a moment's notice". Edit: I just remembered someone said you don't need registration to apply for the SPL as it gives automatic registration but my point is valid enough I think. If allowed entry to the SPL, that would actually create the club where it didn't exist before. How the hell did the SFA allow that one? Hopefully the SPL chairmen will stick to their guns and the registration thing will be a valid point - and then the SFA if they've any sense will refuse this and tell them to come back when they've sorted out all their problems (rather than let a ticking time bomb into the lower leagues which could be a disaster). Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 3 years accounts can be waived (I think) , reading the SFA/L rules is bonkers as more often than not they conradict each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fellow Traveller Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 It would no doubt be a factor when looking at any applicant and, despite having a massive fanbase, the Zombie Rangers club would probably not be able to show itself to be more financially stable than a long-established club like Spartans, not that it'll change their minds. So where's the smart money going? What will crumble first - the whole newco venture or the the spines of the SFL chairmen? Although in fairness to David Beattie, I don't think he's weak and being bullied into supporting a fix. He's just being greedy and opportunistic, out of touch and unethical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norgethistle Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 3 years accounts can be waived (I think) , reading the SFA/L rules is bonkers as more often than not they conradict each other But that was their reason for rejecting Airdrieonians Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) But that was their reason for rejecting Airdrieonians Yes and the SPL rules said Inverness shouldn't have replaced us in the top league, didn't they? Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) Just saw this .. it supports what I've been saying about the dangers of allowing newco into the league. Nothing much really new but it brings a lot of stuff together into the one article. Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael m Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 General feeling I am getting is the chances of sevco plying their trade in any league is no greater than 50/50. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 1 - Rangers cannot be punished. Even if people wanted to. They are like Third Lanark - a club from Scottish football history and therefore any punishment meted out to Rangers is simply hammering additional nails into a coffin that is already firmly shut. Why not? Here's where this debate really gets me offside. What is the nature of this club over which there's so much debate? While there's a new business looking for admission to the footballing league, you can bet it's going to be the same old song and dance over the name, the club colours, the songs, the attitudes, the heritage, the 'right to win everything'. The back of those has to be broken as well. What's up for discussion should be complete cultural change. Hell's bells, the club was no more than minutes away from Green getting his understanding and a bunch of wideboys fronted by Walter Smith tried to bully the Yorkshireman and his borrowed £5.5million out the door. A few days later there's a couple of property developers (look and learn Thistle kiddies) blawin' about an £11million takeover. Right now, Charles Green is talking about taking players to court. It's a shambles and it's not worthy of trust. There's no way of knowing if a 'newco' Rangers could even start the season, let alone fulfill its fixture list. Frankly, I think there's an opportunity to hit a club with a culture like that good and hard. There need to be sanctions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I see Wallace has agreed to join up with the Newco (albeit they aren't actually a club yet) ... that will please the Hearts fans whose club got robbed of £800K for him. Silly silly boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Although in fairness to David Beattie, I don't think he's weak and being bullied into supporting a fix. He's just being greedy and opportunistic, out of touch and unethical. Yet he's got the club 'making money'. Has he really? How many members of Thistle staff have been moved off the books and into the employment of companies owned by directors? How healthy is Thistle financially? I understand that David Beattie might see a dilemma in front of him when it comes to a vote. He's got the possibility of extra revenue from the presence of that b*stard club in the same league as Thistle, possibly two fat home gates and a bit of telly money. Counter to that is most of his customer base is telling him 'no'. Where does his legal duty as a company director lie? Will he also be feeling pressure from the bank? I don't envy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yet he's got the club 'making money'. Has he really? How many members of Thistle staff have been moved off the books and into the employment of companies owned by directors? How healthy is Thistle financially? I understand that David Beattie might see a dilemma in front of him when it comes to a vote. He's got the possibility of extra revenue from the presence of that b*stard club in the same league as Thistle, possibly two fat home gates and a bit of telly money. Counter to that is most of his customer base is telling him 'no'. Where does his legal duty as a company director lie? Will he also be feeling pressure from the bank? I don't envy him. Wishful thinking I fear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Lanark Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I see Wallace has agreed to join up with the Newco (albeit they aren't actually a club yet) ... that will please the Hearts fans whose club got robbed of £800K for him. Silly silly boy. Who is Wallace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Who is Wallace? Lee Wallace, left back, formerly of Hearts. Sold to Rangers (RIP) but £800K of fee agreed outstanding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 John Lambie Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Yet he's got the club 'making money'. Has he really? How many members of Thistle staff have been moved off the books and into the employment of companies owned by directors? How healthy is Thistle financially? I understand that David Beattie might see a dilemma in front of him when it comes to a vote. He's got the possibility of extra revenue from the presence of that b*stard club in the same league as Thistle, possibly two fat home gates and a bit of telly money. Counter to that is most of his customer base is telling him 'no'. Where does his legal duty as a company director lie? Will he also be feeling pressure from the bank? I don't envy him. A point that can not be ignored, it could well be the bank leave us with no choice but to vote yes, hypothetical I know but I would be surprised if they had no input should it come to a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 I was pleasantly surprised to read that so many SPL clubs had told the 'newco' idea to take a hike. Perhaps the bank pressure isn't as great as imagined. Perhaps it's greater for SFL teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bunny Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 (edited) I was pleasantly surprised to read that so many SPL clubs had told the 'newco' idea to take a hike. Perhaps the bank pressure isn't as great as imagined. Perhaps it's greater for SFL teams. I would hope bank managers would be able to look at what's been happening seriously and not just taking their line from the fans with WPs in the red tops. Anyone keeping up with the whole picture would be very leary of wanting to touch Newco with a bargepole. They are a disaster waiting to happen if taken into any league. Unfortunately, in view of the way banks have acted over the last decade I don't really expect anything sensible from them. Edited June 26, 2012 by Mr Bunny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Unfortunately, in view of the way banks have acted over the last decade I don't really expect anything sensible from them. Indeed. When you're in the business of lending money and can make millions of pounds in interest because a clock moves between 11.59pm one day and 12.01am the next, reality probably gets a little distorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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