Embarassing

[lady-isobel-barnett]

Sorry but think you better get used to it as we are on slippery slope to oblivion with this lot of players, Hodge, Kinniburgh and Boyle should never put on a Thistle jersey again

 

Boyle was possibly our best player today. Abuse where abuse is due please.

Agree. Don't see how Boyle can be criticised today. And Halliwell was totally at fault for the second goal. Boyle neither asked for the ball or could do much about the two players who closed him down.

[Vom Itorium]

If McCall likes a punt... so whit! If he likes a drink... so whit!

 

If he's tactically inept then that's when we've got a right to be concerned and it looks to me as though this is being proven to be the case. It was always said that Chisholm was the brains and McCall was the figurehead. This seems spot on to me as anyone who deems Brian Hodge worthy of a jersey hasn't the first clue about football. We are in serious bother this season. It will be a long, hard slog and anyone who's came into this season with delusions of grandeur and the possibility of us challenging is a fool.

 

I am not surprised in the slightest by today's result. We may well have many more of these to come so strap in.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Vom Itorium

[rodge]

1st goal keeper very slow to get down

 

2nd goal what was the keeper thinking off to all the fans who blamed boyle you dont know what your talking about

 

3rd goal robbo missed anther header no one covers and willie dives in like a big tit

 

4th goal looked offside

 

many missed chances in between

why when players miss sitters do they get clapped balatoni rowson but when boyle makes a bad passs he gets dogs abuse dont think hes a great player but some fans want to look at the other 10 on the park and get off his back

[jaggybunnet]

1st goal keeper very slow to get down

 

2nd goal what was the keeper thinking off to all the fans who blamed boyle you dont know what your talking about

 

3rd goal robbo missed anther header no one covers and willie dives in like a big tit

 

4th goal looked offside

 

many missed chances in between

why when players miss sitters do they get clapped balatoni rowson but when boyle makes a bad passs he gets dogs abuse dont think hes a great player but some fans want to look at the other 10 on the park and get off his back

 

 

Edited August 7, 2010 by jaggybunnet

[lady-isobel-barnett]

1st goal keeper very slow to get down

 

2nd goal what was the keeper thinking off to all the fans who blamed boyle you dont know what your talking about

 

3rd goal robbo missed anther header no one covers and willie dives in like a big tit

 

4th goal looked offside

 

many missed chances in between

why when players miss sitters do they get clapped balatoni rowson but when boyle makes a bad passs he gets dogs abuse dont think hes a great player but some fans want to look at the other 10 on the park and get off his back

Spot on, rodge.

 

Just as an aside, and nothing really to do with above post but I wouldn't be critical of Balatoni's miss. I think he was grounded as the cross came in and just managed back on his feet to head the ball

[northjag]

So annoyed by that display. Nobody taking responsability for us today, a lack of leadership out there. Other teams probably cant wait to play us. Im quite worried as it looks like nothing has improved since last year. The same old missing chances story and dodgy defending. Raith rovers are not a brilliant team but are just a bit more wiser and have players better at decision making than us. I feel a bit sorry for kinneburgh as every mistake he makes ends up in a goal or a sending off. On the positive side i thought flannigan did well and looked our best player. I was dissapointed at some of our fans who shouted "sack the board", saying that dosn't help anyone. McCall needs to get us far more organised. Lets hope we can beat dundee next week.

[Phoenix]

So annoyed by that display. Nobody taking responsability for us today, a lack of leadership out there. Other teams probably cant wait to play us. Im quite worried as it looks like nothing has improved since last year. The same old missing chances story and dodgy defending. Raith rovers are not a brilliant team but are just a bit more wiser and have players better at decision making than us. I feel a bit sorry for kinneburgh as every mistake he makes ends up in a goal or a sending off. On the positive side i thought flannigan did well and looked our best player. I was dissapointed at some of our fans who shouted "sack the board", saying that dosn't help anyone. McCall needs to get us far more organised. Lets hope we can beat dundee next week.

 

Maybe because he tackles with his hands 95% of the time. He is an experienced footballer who either cant or doesn't want to learn from his mistakes.

If I was an opposing manager I would have my strikers run at him all day. You know he's going to foul and give away stupid free kicks

[Winter of '63]

Same old failings season after season:-

 

Passing the ball to death with no end product.

 

No strikers who can score. Buchanan was right through twice on the keeper whilst being harried by two defenders. Rowson also had two good chances to score and squandered both. In fairness to him he did well in dispossessing the defender at the edge of the area to make the chance.

 

The game:-

 

Goal no 1. Cross to the back post with no challenge on the striker. [ Unmarked crosses to the back post were also the cause of goal number 4.]

 

Goal no 2. Halliwell passed the ball to Boyle who had two strikers marking him. Not surprisingly he was dispossesed and they scored .

 

Goal 3. Attacker running for the ball with bombscare Willie in close attendance. Willie decides, as he is last man in defence to chop the striker down, resulting in his red card and subsequent penalty award. The keeper had no chance with the penalty. Willie also had a deflected clearance hit his own crossbar with the keeper beaten. To be more constructive Willie also had some good headers but our managers will have to devise an aparatus that stops him pulling and tugging the oposition jersey and also putting his arms round players, either that or teach him how to do it more professionally so the referee does not see it.

 

I didn't quite understand the tactical change of placing Chris Erskine through the centre as a striker because:-

1. He is not strong in the air.

2. He is not particularly fast.

 

Why therefore was he not played on the wing, to suit his strongest ability of taking on players? Especially when at this stage Grehan was sitting on the bench?

 

Understandbly fans were rather angry at the end as there were no Chemist shops selling anti depressents in the vicinity of the ground after the game. On a more serious note there were calls to sack the board. With Thistle being a private limited company I don't see how this is possible?

No one is going to buy all the debt to take over the club. We are therefore stuck with what we have got.

 

Several fans shouted at McCall asking where the five year plan was now. In fairness, plans can only be delivered where the vast majority of the inputs to the plan remain constant and do not change.e.g. finance, good players being retained. However we fans, as major contributors to the club do require some form of 5 year plan to give us the confidence to continue parting with our hard earned cash.

 

Propco was seen as the saviour of the club. When are we likely to see the realisation of the propco deal in benefits to the club?

If the realisation of this finance is dependant on the property market picking up. We are in for a long haul. If that is the case? What is the plan in the interim to safe guard the club?

 

I understand that all businesses are under pressure financially and our club is no exception. What I do not understand [with the exception of Dundee] is how clubs with smaller crowds/revenue streams than us can sign better players than us? [ One of whom scored a hatrick against us today]

 

What the club has to remember is that they are in the entertainment business and although football fans have probably a bit more tolerance and loyalty to the club than say a theatre fan, ultimately that tolerance has a limit and if the product like today was to continue then the club will unfortunately pay the penalty at the gate.

 

What also concerns me this season is that if league reconstruction were to happen we may be so far off the pace that we will loose out.

 

I don't normally post. Like the silent majority i usually just read the polarisation of views. I felt I had to put my concerns into print with hopefully a bit of balance to them.

That's a perceptive & balanced analysis - you should post more often.

[JobbyMahoney]

That's a perceptive & balanced analysis - you should post more often.

 

Totally agree.

 

I can totally understand the ranting after a result/performance like that, but (generally speaking) balance is required.

 

It's a bit like the guy that runs Trip Advisor, he says ignore the terrible and great reviews and look at the ones in the middle. DundeeJag is our middle!

[Lindau]

Same old failings season after season:-

 

Passing the ball to death with no end product.

 

No strikers who can score. Buchanan was right through twice on the keeper whilst being harried by two defenders. Rowson also had two good chances to score and squandered both. In fairness to him he did well in dispossessing the defender at the edge of the area to make the chance.

 

The game:-

 

Goal no 1. Cross to the back post with no challenge on the striker. [ Unmarked crosses to the back post were also the cause of goal number 4.]

 

Goal no 2. Halliwell passed the ball to Boyle who had two strikers marking him. Not surprisingly he was dispossesed and they scored .

 

Goal 3. Attacker running for the ball with bombscare Willie in close attendance. Willie decides, as he is last man in defence to chop the striker down, resulting in his red card and subsequent penalty award. The keeper had no chance with the penalty. Willie also had a deflected clearance hit his own crossbar with the keeper beaten. To be more constructive Willie also had some good headers but our managers will have to devise an aparatus that stops him pulling and tugging the oposition jersey and also putting his arms round players, either that or teach him how to do it more professionally so the referee does not see it.

 

I didn't quite understand the tactical change of placing Chris Erskine through the centre as a striker because:-

1. He is not strong in the air.

2. He is not particularly fast.

 

Why therefore was he not played on the wing, to suit his strongest ability of taking on players? Especially when at this stage Grehan was sitting on the bench?

 

Understandbly fans were rather angry at the end as there were no Chemist shops selling anti depressents in the vicinity of the ground after the game. On a more serious note there were calls to sack the board. With Thistle being a private limited company I don't see how this is possible?

No one is going to buy all the debt to take over the club. We are therefore stuck with what we have got.

 

Several fans shouted at McCall asking where the five year plan was now. In fairness, plans can only be delivered where the vast majority of the inputs to the plan remain constant and do not change.e.g. finance, good players being retained. However we fans, as major contributors to the club do require some form of 5 year plan to give us the confidence to continue parting with our hard earned cash.

 

Propco was seen as the saviour of the club. When are we likely to see the realisation of the propco deal in benefits to the club?

If the realisation of this finance is dependant on the property market picking up. We are in for a long haul. If that is the case? What is the plan in the interim to safe guard the club?

 

I understand that all businesses are under pressure financially and our club is no exception. What I do not understand [with the exception of Dundee] is how clubs with smaller crowds/revenue streams than us can sign better players than us? [ One of whom scored a hatrick against us today]

 

What the club has to remember is that they are in the entertainment business and although football fans have probably a bit more tolerance and loyalty to the club than say a theatre fan, ultimately that tolerance has a limit and if the product like today was to continue then the club will unfortunately pay the penalty at the gate.

 

What also concerns me this season is that if league reconstruction were to happen we may be so far off the pace that we will loose out.

 

I don't normally post. Like the silent majority i usually just read the polarisation of views. I felt I had to put my concerns into print with hopefully a bit of balance to them.

 

Excellent post Dundeejag

[honved]

@dundeejag

 

Propco was only half a plan; in conjunction with propco the club had to live within their means, something they have not managed to do for many years. They never articulated the other half of the plan at the time which we are now seeing the manifestation of...I think propco was missold, it gave the impression it would see player budgets increased, etc in the short term; hat was never going to happen.

 

If they do not, then there is a possible upside for those in our boardroom through their interest in propco by buying the rest out a discount.

 

This was always my problem with propco, there is a HUGE conflict issue. There are two reasons to worry - 1 are they competent enough to operate a balanced budget or 2 are they ethical enough to safeguard decision making is not conflicted and compromised at a club board level.

 

I think we all have an opinion to both those questions.

 

Anyone interested in the illusion of Propco should have a look at the Companies House website. There is a pledge agreement in existence which basically says that if the club make any money on propco (as opposed to just retaining the original investment) then the cash goes to the bank.

[B.C.G. JAG]

Anyone interested in the illusion of Propco should have a look at the Companies House website. There is a pledge agreement in existence which basically says that if the club make any money on propco (as opposed to just retaining the original investment) then the cash goes to the bank.

 

Seriously? One of the selling points about this whole Propco thing was that it would add a few coppers to the Players Budget. Or did I make that up? So basically, if we sell players on or sell the stadium, none of that money goes towards the Players Budget. I think yesterday's result says something about that, as will the drop in walk up ticket sales if results don't improve immediately. As if I didn't need another reason to hate the bankers.

[Ancipital]

I don't really rate Erskine, but if we have to play him then it is as a winger, the guy cannot play with his back to goal and needs everything in front of him.

 

The only remotely useful thing he did yesterday was when he was able to get the ball moving forward and run past a couple of their players- we should have scored but he poked it at the keeper with players waiting for a tap in.

 

I also get the feeling McCall doesn't rate Grehan (despite signing him), how many starts has he made in half a season?

[Tom Hosie]

Anyone interested in the illusion of Propco should have a look at the Companies House website. There is a pledge agreement in existence which basically says that if the club make any money on propco (as opposed to just retaining the original investment) then the cash goes to the bank.

 

Good. Exactly where it should go.

 

If the Club is free of debt and the burden of repayments to the bank because of that debt would that not free up that money, or at least some of it, for other things?

 

The budget for players benefits because the debt to the bank no longer needs to be addressed.

[Woodstock Jag]

Seriously? One of the selling points about this whole Propco thing was that it would add a few coppers to the Players Budget. Or did I make that up? So basically, if we sell players on or sell the stadium, none of that money goes towards the Players Budget. I think yesterday's result says something about that, as will the drop in walk up ticket sales if results don't improve immediately. As if I didn't need another reason to hate the bankers.

 

The debt's the Club's own fault (not the bank's), and my own opinion is that the priority should be to clear the debt (or at least to the extent that the debt repayments don't prevent us from trading near break-even).

 

I think you're maybe referring to a comment made by a Director in a press article at the time, which did indeed infer that PropCo would free up money for the playing budget. I'm not at all surprised that the statement wasn't true.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Woodstock Jag

[Vom Itorium]

Good. Exactly where it should go.

 

If the Club is free of debt and the burden of repayments to the bank because of that debt would that not free up that money, or at least some of it, for other things?

 

The budget for players benefits because the debt to the bank no longer needs to be addressed.

Probably not because Coco and Co would go out and refurnish the Ambassadors Lounge or get nice new cushions for their seats.

 

How can the budget be benefitting when we left Halliwell and Flannigan hanging on to the last and have resigned all the old duds we freed during the summer?

[Phoenix]

Good. Exactly where it should go.

 

If the Club is free of debt and the burden of repayments to the bank because of that debt would that not free up that money, or at least some of it, for other things?

 

The budget for players benefits because the debt to the bank no longer needs to be addressed.

 

Wrong. There has to be a balance. Not increasing the player budget will only mean that less fans will come to watch and therefore the debt will increase. I'm not advocating crazy spending but some money needs to be added to the playing budget

[brodieboy]

The club is on its knees. still.

 

Until someone comes in with a bit (or a lot) of lottery cash, or we draw rangers away twice in the season or we somehow manage to pull in a couple more Gary Harkins sized sales out the Rabbit's Hat, it isn't going to get any better any time soon - lets not kid ourselves on that changing the manager is either affordable or the solution to our problems.

 

The main issue for me isn't the manager, isn't the standard of player, isn't the fans, but the cost of entry and the indeed the bigger picture.

 

For the terribly poor standard of sport on show, how can clubs justify charging loyal, hardened supporters £15-£19 for entry into a 1st Division Scottish Football match? I can go and see a TOP CLASS Italian, German or Dutch match for under a tenner. DAYLIGHT ROBBERY is occuring at stadiums here on a weekly basis. The SFA and maybe even the Scottish Government must act now before its too late.

 

If Rugby can take off as it has done, then so can football.

 

Its rotten from the core out and we're the poor and out of pocket souls on the end of it on a saturday afternoon.

 

Credit to anyone who goes to the games - we defy all logic and reason and its time we were better served by the people in charge of the national purse.

[Semi Nurainen]

Changing the manager IS possibly, even probably the solution; it's not affordable at present.

 

But I wholeheartedly agree with, and have been propounding, your broader analysis. £16 to watch this crap? Kiiniburgh and Hodge? Do me a favour. These guys are living the dream: after (is it) three years Paton still cant use his left foott etc. etc. Three free kicks on Saturday - schoolboys would have done better. Somebody made the point last season £21 to watch Motherwell vs St Mirren in a dreary hovel; £25 to watch Falkirk put 11 men behind the ball in a Cup Tie against the left cheek of the old firm ar*e - and scrape the birdshit off the seat before you sit down, if you please.

 

The real driver of the present spiral of decline is the appaling quality and the exorbitant cost - we only notice it more than most because, well do I really need to state the obvious ...

[Blackpool Jags]

The debt's the Club's own fault (not the bank's), and my own opinion is that the priority should be to clear the debt (or at least to the extent that the debt repayments don't prevent us from trading near break-even).

 

I think you're maybe referring to a comment made by a Director in a press article at the time, which did indeed infer that PropCo would free up money for the playing budget. I'm not at all surprised that the statement wasn't true.

 

Doesn't that largely mean that the Trust, for example, were hoodwinked into abstaining on the issue by the bogus utterings of the deceitful director in question? And, for that matter, what was in it for this particular rascal if he wanted Propco to go ahead so badly that he was prepared to lie to his own kind? And, lastly, why hasn't this character been named and shamed and dealt with appropriately?

[Woodstock Jag]

Doesn't that largely mean that the Trust, for example, were hoodwinked into abstaining on the issue by the bogus utterings of the deceitful director in question? And, for that matter, what was in it for this particular rascal if he wanted Propco to go ahead so badly that he was prepared to lie to his own kind? And, lastly, why hasn't this character been named and shamed and dealt with appropriately?

 

I have no idea if the Trust were influenced at all by the utterings of Tom Hughes (who said the comment to the Evening Times) when making their decision. When I read it, though, I had no reason to believe a word of it, such as is the pressure the Bank was/is exerting on the Club.

 

I wouldn't want to say whether the relevant director merely "misspoke" or had intended to mislead, as I honestly don't know.

[B.C.G. JAG]

The debt's the Club's own fault (not the bank's), and my own opinion is that the priority should be to clear the debt (or at least to the extent that the debt repayments don't prevent us from trading near break-even).

 

I think you're maybe referring to a comment made by a Director in a press article at the time, which did indeed infer that PropCo would free up money for the playing budget. I'm not at all surprised that the statement wasn't true.

Good. Exactly where it should go.

 

If the Club is free of debt and the burden of repayments to the bank because of that debt would that not free up that money, or at least some of it, for other things?

 

The budget for players benefits because the debt to the bank no longer needs to be addressed.

Wrong. There has to be a balance. Not increasing the player budget will only mean that less fans will come to watch and therefore the debt will increase. I'm not advocating crazy spending but some money needs to be added to the playing budget

 

I agree that we must do what we can to break even, which is done by reducing the interest of the debt for a start. But as Phoenix points out, there must be some kind of compromise. If there is no financial investment put into the team, the product becomes unsellable. Nothing wild, but enough to keep bums on seats. We're only one game into the season and already you can feel the exodus of walk up sales. With this team we're going to be so far out of the race by mid October that attendances will be lower than Chrissie Hynde's Fringe.

 

Now, it's really neither here nor there whether individual members of the Trust believed what Tom Hughes said, I did, as did a large number of Trust members. As far as I'm concerned, the public position of PTFC was that Propco was designed to pay off the debt whilst adding a bit of money to the Player's Budget. That was the basis on which it was sold to us. I would have been more critical of this scheme had it been publicly known at the time that bank was demanding all the club's profits, particularly when Board members are expecting to make a personal profit. When The Trust decided to abstain in the Propco vote, they did so representing it's membership which made a decision based upon the information available. That information was clearly wrong and should now be challenged.

 

Yes, I understand that if they're putting their money in they should expect to see something in return, but these Thistle minded people seem to have put their own personal profits as a priority over the team. Had we known the details, I think some of us might have wanted to see The Trust pushing for more of a cut for the team.

 

However, this is all largely academic. Propco is unlikely to get the green light which will leave us stuffed. And if it does, it won't pay off all the debt, which will leave us stuffed. But it will make some cash for the BOD, which will leave their wallets stuffed.

Edited August 10, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG