Winter of '63

Under current SPL Rules, a 10 point penalty is imposed on any club which goes into administration. When Motherwell ( and Dundee and Livingston) went into administration, there was no such rule.The transfer embargo has been imposed because of various other breaches of SPL rules by Rangers and Craig Whyte such as failing to pass on payments to other clubs and not because they are in administration. They will be liable to further penalties if they are found to have been in breach of regulations regarding double contracts. Rangers will have to get used to the fact that penalties can be given against them.

The Kick-Off for the New Year Derby game in 2001 between Thistle and Queens at Hampden had to be delayed for 15 minutes to let the big Thistle support in...they had only opened one turnstyle...a 4,000 crowd in a stadium with a capacity of 52,000. My father was a Queens Park fan and the first football match he took me to was a game between Queens and East Stirling(I think) which finished about 7-2 for Queens. That was back in the day when Hampden's capacity was 136,000. Even as a nipper I thought it was a bizarre experience seeing acres of empty terracing...Firhill was much more to my liking,though it's no longer the atmospheric ground it used to be. Despite Hampden's history, I've never thought it was a very good ground to watch football even with a big crowd.

I suspect you may well be right. I heard a former Rangers Director on the radio tonight commenting that in the negotiations with David Murray, Craig White's interest was almost entirely focussed on the Tax Case not on anything else to do with running the club. It's therefore reasonable to asume that White was not only expecting that Rangers would have to go into Administration but also that it's what he wanted to happen. White has already apparently amassed a fortune by buying and selling companies in distress. Look out for him walking away with a huge wad of cash, selling the assets including Ibrox Stadium to Rangers(2012) Ltd and Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs(that's us the taxpayer) getting 3p in the £. Think Dundee FC but on a bigger scale...or Greece but on a smaller scale.

This is a terrible tragedy for Gary Speed's family and friends...he seems to have been both very well-liked and respected.

My selection:- Alan Rough Dave McKinnon Jackie Campbell David Irons Alex Forsyth Donald Park Ronnie Glavin Alan Hansen Chic Charnley Mo Johnston Doug Somner Some random thoughts:- Although I saw Sandy Brown, David McParland and some of the others stars from that era play, I was too young to make a proper assessment. Right back has not been our strongest position over the years I thought David Irons was magnificent when he was converted to a central defender...I'm surprised he hasn't been selected by some of the younger guys on here. Alan Hansen was the most talented outfield player I've seen for Thistle but Jackie Campbell and Andy Anderson were so good as a partnership that Alan moved forward to midfield for a spell. Chic would have to teach Donald Park how to keep calm and not get involved in a rammy every week. The Coulston & Bone partnership gave the '71 side their cutting edge...but MoJo and Somner were better players. Everyone in my team looked the part in the top division...I always liked watching Scott Paterson, John Flood and Gary Harkins but they excelled in the First Division.

My first game since January...I should have known better from Ross County's previous visits to Firhill - they are well-organised, disciplined and "professional" outfit but it makes for a pretty tedious day out...watching footballers walking slowly to take goal kicks and throw-ins is not great entertainment. Scully made three good saves, Cairney and to a lesser extent Sinclair carried a bit of a threat in the second half and Rowson gave his usual hard-working performance but Christie was poor and I wasn't sure what role Erskine was supposed to be playing...and neither was he. Hutton started impressively but disappeared. An obvious flaw in the way the team is set up is Paul Paton's inability to go past a defender...it makes us predictable and easy to defend against. I guess I just find it difficult to accept that Thistle are a mid-table First Division side now and that the likes of County, Hamilton and Inverness have better sides than us...they used to be several divisions below us.

Chalmers was indeed rubbish for us...as were several other ex-Old Firm players who washed up at Firhill...but it is a great quiz question - name the Thistle player who scored against Brazil.

I'm sure the good Lady will not wish to reveal her age, but I was 10 at the time. I do remember Billy Bremner marked Pele who probably still has the scars...Jim Baxter had a Brazilian level of skills...and Steve Chalmers(who later played for Thistle) scored in the first minute - the next day's headline was "Nobody noticed Scotland until they scored." I recently looked this up and two of the stars of the 1970 World Cup winning Brazil side also played at Hampden that day - Jairzinho, who was the top scorer at that tournament and Gerson, the brilliant midfield general. Sadly I was too young at the time to really appreciate footballers of that ability...and the previous week I turned down the chance to see Scotland play Portugal...my Dad came back raving about a guy called Eusebio who soon after became the sensation of the '66 World Cup.

Alan Rough Pele - Brazil played Scotland at Hampden Park in a warm up game just before the 1966 World Cup Finals

The proclamation to Rejoice Rejoice was when British troops recaptured South Georgia, which I think was a small island close to the Falklands and populated by penguins. The Falklands conflict was a convenient war at a time when the Thatcher Government was extremely unpopular. I agree with your first sentence and the story of her milking the taxpayer is just another example of the hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy of the rich and powerful; but although I thought her policies were appalling and found her personally immensely dislikable, I don't think it reflects well on anyone to wish an old woman dead. Mind you, I'm bracing myself to be nauseated by the obituaries telling us how she transformed Britain, brought freedom and prosperity, ended World Communism...

That brought back some memories...I was in the enclosure for that game as well...we had some good players then...and Firhill seemed to have a special atmosphere. Three absolutely fabulous saves from Roughie...a Thistle fan shouted "You should have held it Alan" after the penalty save

That sounds a bit patronising considering that you misinterpreted my initial post on this thread...your post was that "There is more interest in Thistle from the US Forces". Frankly, this is not a proposition I find remotely credible. It may be that you have spoken to a US Serviceman who has an interest in Thistle but it hardly leads to your general conclusion about "the US Forces". This is a pointless exchange - I'm just grumpy about our failure to win away from home.

I quoted the part of your post that there was more interest in Thistle from US forces - I doubt that is the case. I then gave my own opinion on my club giving free entry to all military personnel - how dare I.

This must be one of the unlikeliest propositions posted on this forum. There is an increased level of uncritical glorification of the Military, though at least not quite to American levels. Not all soldiers are heroes - there is no reason why they should all be given free entry to games at Firhill.

STJ - I think you are the guy who has the excellent site with vintage Thistle photographs. You may be a bit younger than me and therefore not immediately recognise the players from the '71 team - they are:- Jackie Campbell, Jimmy Bone, Alan Rough,Frank Coulston, Johnny Gibson, Denis McQuade, The Lord Provost, Alex Rae, David McParland, John Hansen, Chairman James Aitken, Alex Forsyth, Bobby Lawrie and Hugh Strachan. Not sure why Ronnie Glavin - my all time favourite Thistle player - is not in the photo.

Where's Ronnie Glavin?

The four guys I mentioned had played a few games in previous seasons but Davie McParland found their best positions - Alex Forsyth and John Hansen were midfield players who became the full backs, Ronnie Glavin was a striker who became a midfield player, and Jackie Campbell - who was regarded as one of the old heads in the team...I think he was 24 at the time - was converted from a right back to centre half. I reckon that the final was John Hansen's seventh game as a right back.

No, Blackpool Jags is correct - this was the first League game of Season 71/72 - we turned over both Rangers and Celtic within the space of two months. John Gibson was magnificent in that match...though he only lasted 45 minutes after being the victim of an assault by John Greig, the man voted the greatest living Ranger by their fans. I checked this a year or so ago when Tom Hosie asked for information about players who played in earlier rounds of the League Cup. John Hansen,Alex Forsyth, Jackie Campbell and Ronnie Glavin were only brought in to the team during the campaign - they had played less than ten games in their positions by the time we reached the Final. The same 12 played in the Semi Final against Falkirk and the Quarter Final Second Leg against St Johnstone but I was surprised at some of players who played in the Sectional Games - we had already qualified before the final group game and rested several of the first team. The full list with some barely remembered names is Ian Reid Nobby Clark Bobby Gray and Bobby Gray Senior - nephew and uncle Charlie Smith Ian Dick Jim Logan - only played one game for Thistle Donnie MacKinnon Jim Mullin Tommy Rae Andy Anderson - debut as sub No idea who was given a medal. I need to get out more

I'm surprised that Nobby Clark played as many as 154 games for Thistle. If they had "squad players" back in the Seventies, Nobby would have been in that category - never quite good enough to have been a regular first choice but a decent enough player to come in when needed. I suppose that Andy Anderson's tendency to get injured and Jackie Campbell's contractual dispute with the club gave him a few opportunities. I do remember that he played - and came close to scoring - in the game against Honved. Strange to think that a journeyman professional for us actually played in Europe. I knew he had gone to Queen of the South after he left the club, but 340 games for them is a creditable achievement.

December 1962 - Thistle 3 (Hogan, Whitelaw, Hainey) Airdrie 0 Crowd 12,000 It was Thistle's ninth successive win in our best ever run in the top League - 15 games unbeaten. The crowd went mental at half-time when the scores were put up on the board at the City End - Rangers were losing, Thistle were top of the League. I was just a nipper and didn't know what a League was...or that this was as high as we would ever get. The Winter of 1963 was the worst of the century and virtually no football was played in the UK from the New Year until March...Thistle never recovered their form after the break and faded to a disappointing third. I think my first away game was at the Cliftonhill Superdome in November 1970. Davie McParland's great side was beginning to shape - 6 of the team played at Hampden less than a year later...we lost 1-0!

That would be another Conspiracy Theory for Celtic fans.

Ironside was a special investigator for the Police - anyone looking for legal guidance would learn far more from re-runs of ace attorney Perry Mason...he never lost a case. Raymond Burr played both parts in these ancient TV Series. Yours A pedantic Lawyer

I agree with most of this and historically , the F*nians were indeed a political organisation ...but they were an Irish Catholic movement whereas the IRA have, as far as I am aware, no religious affiliations. And in popular West of Scotland parlance, it's a word with clear sectarian connotations. Similarly, I understand that there was a recent conviction for religiously aggravated breach of the peace for use of the H word - I always thought this referred to a bigoted Rangers supporter but the Court seem to have considered that there was some religious element. But surely nobody thinks that there is some profound theological debate between Old Firm fans - it's just tribal baiting which cleans up at the Box Office. But if attempts to enforce the proposed no legislation are put into effect - and I think that the intentions are well-meaning and long overdue - arguments about sectarian/political intent will be raised...and nothing will change. There is a danger that our Hello, Hello song, which is clearly a jibe at the pseudo-religious sentiments of the Old Firm, will be used as a distraction from the real problem - so it might be better to drop it from the songbook. Maybe attempts to put pressure on sponsors and broadcasters rather than attempting to charge the "minority" of offending Old Firm supporters might be more effective in addressing the issue. Personally, I'm offended by the sheer stupidity of it all...

Personally I think there is too much deference to religious organisations and royalty so I like our song for similar reasons that I dislike God Save the Queen... plus the National Anthem is a dirge with an anti-Scottish sentiment in one of the obscure verses. We have sung this song for as long as I can remember - and although I haven't been to a game between Thistle and either half of the Old Firm for years because I found the whole atmosphere posionous , back in the 70's we always tried to shout down any non-football songs from their repertoire. My recollection of my Criminal Law course from many years ago is that under Scottish Law just about anything can be a Breach of the Peace - I'm sure we were referred to a case where a member of the Salvation Army was done for playing a cornet. I also remember a Police Officer at the Terry Butcher/Frank McAvennie Trial from a few years back being asked in court if he had observed any conduct amounting to a breach of the peace, dryly replying that there was an ongoing breach of the peace in the stadium throughout the whole of the match. So I'm pretty sure that any Thistle fan who sang either version of the words might well be found guilty of breach of the peace and probably in the present climate with the aggravated sectarian element. The new legislation will no doubt throw up some interesting legal arguments - Ned 1 "Up the 'RA" Ned 2 "Ya Fen**n B*****d" One of them is making a political statement, the other committing an aggravated sectarian offence. They are both bawbags and I don't want to have to listen to that stuff in football grounds. My own view is that Scotland doesn't really have a serious problem with sectarianism outwith Old Firm tribalism. Unless any Thistle fan is up for being a test case and potential martyrdom, I think we have to accept the reality that we can't allow the Club to be drawn into this argument.

We had already won our League Cup Section so we played virtually a reserve side in the final game against Raith Rovers - it was a midweek game at Firhill and we won 5-0. The Stadium Announcer mentioned that he was looking forward to seeing our young substitute, Andy Anderson, make his first team debut as he had heard great things about him. Andy came on in that game for Jackie Campbell, the other central defender was Donnie MacKinnon. All three worthy of Hall of Fame status in their own right. Ian Dick played in goal, the right back was Logan and Jimmy Mullin was up front in that game - I only have a hazy memory of them but presumably they are all in the Hall of Fame too.