Fan Director / Jt Board Rep Position

[stolenscone]

Maybe the Trust can clarify what communications have been made to the Club after keiron's resignation? Can they clarify what was discussed in the time up to Morag's appointment, and what has been discussed since, both as the Trust Board and with the Club?

 

I fear that this will need to wait until after any meeting with the Club has taken plan for reasons previously given.

[Guest Argus]

ps It's your organisation as well.

 

No it's not my organisation, and it's typical arrogance on the part of YOUR organisation to presume you speak on behalf of ALL Thistle fans, as this hints at.

 

The reaction to this, that you won't speak about it demonstrates why nobody believes you have any authority in dealing with the club.

[potty trained]

PT - I will repeat for clarity: I am aware of no intention by the Trust to ditch the community work undertaken by Kieron. Promotion of the Club within the local community was very much something which Kieron took on board, but is it not the exclusive domian of the Board Representative and it never has been.

 

As I said before, we will be looking to discuss how best to work with the Club to take the community work forward. Much of the work previously undertaken required the co-operation of the Club and the use of Club facilities. If that support is withdrawn, then it is a simple fact that the nature of the work will need to adapt to accomodate that. The Club has not, however, said that is intends to withdraw that support. To say otherwise is speculation at this stage. It is worth noting, however, that the promotion of community development work is enshrined in the Trust's constitution.

 

Thanks David, it was perfectly clear, that's why I said, if Morag chose to not continue Keiron's work, who would.

 

As I asked, can you clarify, in the weeks after Keiron's resignation, and more specifically, in the 7 weeks since Morag took up the post, what roles she has agreed to take on?

 

I take it, since you say, you will be looking to discuss with the Club, that in the 3 months since Keiron's resignation, the Trust have not communicated in any way with the Club regarding carrying on Keiron's work? Maybe under the cicumstances the Trust should be pro-active?

 

Can you clarify what you mean by much of the work requires the Club co-operation and use of the facilities. It's just, looking on the Community website, very little is actually specifically centred around Firhill and more to do with getting the Trust, and therefore the Partick Thistle name out into community projects, local schools etc.

 

These are the projects listed:

 

* A League for All

* A League for Life

* The Govanhill Project

* The Firhill Project

* The Handyperson Project

* The Useful Person Project

* Respect Me - Anti Bullying Project

* Community Coaching Courses

* Firhill Music Project

* Welcoming Project

* Health Awareness project

* Firhill Learning Centre

* Partner Schools

* Professional Development and Training

* Fitness For All

* Healthy Living

 

Can you clarify which one's have been most effected by, what you might describe as a lack of enthusiasm from the Club?

 

Incidentally, I don't see any news items on the Main site, can you confirm if the Trust were present at the events publicised on the Community Site. For example, a league for all, in May. A league for life in June

[potty trained]

I fear that this will need to wait until after any meeting with the Club has taken plan for reasons previously given.

 

 

David, I don't see any reasons given, that would have prevented the trust from contacting the Club to advise them how they might carry on keiron's work.

[potty trained]

Then again at other times....

 

 

and

 

AC

 

It's no great secret that in these financially difficult times, the Club's appetite for community work is not significant.

 

and yet:

 

http://www.thistle123.com/thistledefault.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa32A.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan4.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan3.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan2.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa29.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa28.html

[stolenscone]

Thanks David, it was perfectly clear, that's why I said, if Morag chose to not continue Keiron's work, who would.

 

As I asked, can you clarify, in the weeks after Keiron's resignation, and more specifically, in the 7 weeks since Morag took up the post, what roles she has agreed to take on?

 

I take it, since you say, you will be looking to discuss with the Club, that in the 3 months since Keiron's resignation, the Trust have not communicated in any way with the Club regarding carrying on Keiron's work? Maybe under the cicumstances the Trust should be pro-active?

 

Can you clarify what you mean by much of the work requires the Club co-operation and use of the facilities. It's just, looking on the Community website, very little is actually specifically centred around Firhill and more to do with getting the Trust, and therefore the Partick Thistle name out into community projects, local schools etc.

 

These are the projects listed:

 

* A League for All

* A League for Life

* The Govanhill Project

* The Firhill Project

* The Handyperson Project

* The Useful Person Project

* Respect Me - Anti Bullying Project

* Community Coaching Courses

* Firhill Music Project

* Welcoming Project

* Health Awareness project

* Firhill Learning Centre

* Partner Schools

* Professional Development and Training

* Fitness For All

* Healthy Living

 

Can you clarify which one's have been most effected by, what you might describe as a lack of enthusiasm from the Club?

 

Incidentally, I don't see any news items on the Main site, can you confirm if the Trust were present at the events publicised on the Community Site. For example, a league for all, in May. A league for life in June

 

 

PT - yes, the Trust has communitcated with the Club board since Kieron's departure about continuing the community work, but I'd rather wait until the meeting has taken place before discussing what was or wasn't said.

 

Yes, the Trust were represented at the events you refer to (although off the top of my head, it's possible that the odd event might have taken place without someone there, but that would have been the exception, rather than the rule).

 

To give a couple of examples: the Phoenix Futures project involves folk with addiction issues being invited to carry out supervised maintenance tasks at the Club, the idea being that it gets them back into the swing of turning up at a 9 to 5 job and helps them to integrate back into the workplace, while also providing evidence that they can be reliale and hold down a steady job. That sort of thing needs the co-operation of the Club to provide work and supervision, as well as to give feedback and "sign off" at the end of the process. That simply can't happen in its current form if the Club are minded not to assist. Another example would be the adult learning facilities that were made available to the local community -- the Trust board as an entity meets periodically at the offices of various board members. It does not have fixed office accommodation. If this project is to continue, then the facilities would need to be provided by the Club, or else sourced from elsewhere.

 

I really don't want this to turn into a finger pointing exercise and must stress that the Club and Trust have not sat down yet to discuss the detail of how these projects and others can be taken forward.

[stolenscone]

and yet:

 

http://www.thistle123.com/thistledefault.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa32A.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan4.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan3.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfan2.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa29.html

 

http://www.thistle123.com/alfa28.html

 

PT - The Club has expressed a desire to re-visit this sort of thing going forward. We'll see what comes of that in due course, but regardless, the Trust remains committed to community development work.

[potty trained]

It's no great secret that in these financially difficult times, the Club's appetite for community work is not significant.

 

and yet...

 

PT - The Club has expressed a desire to re-visit this sort of thing going forward.

 

Much of the work previously undertaken required the co-operation of the Club and the use of Club facilities. If that support is withdrawn, then it is a simple fact that the nature of the work will need to adapt to accomodate that. The Club has not, however, said that is intends to withdraw that support. To say otherwise is speculation at this stage.

 

But it's ok for the Trust Chair to infer it?

[jaggybunnet]

and yet...

 

 

 

 

 

But it's ok for the Trust Chair to infer it?

 

Dog + Bone

[potty trained]

Dog + Bone

 

It's called a discussion.

 

At least someone is discussing it, the subject has had 462 views, only a few folk have contributed an opinion or asked a question.

 

That to me suggests very few people actually think the Club is wrong. Infact not one person has come out and voiced an opinion against it.

 

Do you have an opinion?

[honved]

I'm a member of the Jags Trust board and I've done no community work at all - my "thing" has been the social side, organising meet the manager and that sort of thing. It was great, because Kieron was absolutely passionate about it and even set up a website to tell people all about his single handed work. He reported on it every month at Jags Trust board meetings and we began to look at how it could continue after he finished in September.

 

Luckily for us Kieron set up the projects to be self supporting once the pump was primed, meaning that maintaining the projects could be continued relatively easily or the projects had timescales that naturally expired as other partner interests moved on to other things. His long term goal of moving the community work into a charity which had trustees from the club and supporters was very inspirational and despite some initial scepticism was well received. It's a shame that he felt that he needed to resign from his positions with the club and Trust before the end of their natural term

 

The Trust Board are fortunate in having a system to store common files online and Kieron has put together a number of documents that will aid the transition.

 

Just thought that forum users might be interested in this. I've no idea what this particular debate has to do with the board not offering the Trust a seat at its meetings.

 

edited because I made a spelling mistake

Edited August 31, 2010 by honved

[potty trained]

Thanks, really well worded and informative post, Honved.

[erty13]

I did not renew my Jags Trust membership as I did not see the real value in all the community work that they undertook.

 

For me this should be the responsibility of the football club.

 

It has been the easy way out to have the Jags Trust run it for them. All the community work has done is turn the trust into busy fools, rather than spending the time to be the voice of the fans.

 

Drop all these activities and spend all the energy into bringing together all the fans, which will give more power and control than a seat on the board.

[jaggybunnet]

It's called a discussion.

 

At least someone is discussing it, the subject has had 462 views, only a few folk have contributed an opinion or asked a question.

 

That to me suggests very few people actually think the Club is wrong. Infact not one person has come out and voiced an opinion against it.

 

Do you have an opinion?

 

 

no i think it suggests that most people either dont think they can add to the thread, dont want get involved or just dont care enough to bother.

[potty trained]

no i think it suggests that most people either dont think they can add to the thread, dont want get involved or just dont care enough to bother.

 

yip I'd agree with that aswell.

[honved]

no i think it suggests that most people either dont think they can add to the thread, dont want get involved or just dont care enough to bother.

 

Serious question...I know about all the back and forth about the Trust and the board and I think it would be a shame for the Trust just to die off, but does what you're saying imply that you (or anyone else out there) are in any way satisfied with things as they stand?

[jaggybunnet]

Serious question...I know about all the back and forth about the Trust and the board and I think it would be a shame for the Trust just to die off, but does what you're saying imply that you (or anyone else out there) are in any way satisfied with things as they stand?

 

 

I was perhaps being to flippant with my reply Honved, sorry

 

I meant that some people though a general apathy with the club just don't want to be involved , I wish I had half the enthusiasm that you all have (had), I also don't believe that I have the individual skills that would be required for these task which could be a reason that so may people feel unable to give any input.

 

I as I am sure you are frustrated with the silence from the board and the possible perceived view that the trust cant do anything about it, I understand that there are barriers put up in front of the JT from the Board be they intentional or as in the confidential nature of some of the meetings which stops you publishing the stuff that actually goes on

 

to be honest probably my biggest problem is that I don't understand fully some of the stuff that goes on and why it goes on.

 

I thought the main aim of the JT was to support the Club/Team , not the board and all the other spin offs such as the community projects.

 

I could be wrong but is there not a clause that stops anyone having a controlling interest in the club, if that is so what is the point in the JT getting all the shares when we have so little (it seems) impact.

 

community projects, as some one who live in Edinburgh I fail to see why this is so important and what it does to further the JT and therefore the club.

 

I feel that the JT has too much to do and (especially at the moment) should narrow it focus to what's important to the fans (within reason as messie is signed already) and needed by the club.

 

I understand that there will be reasons for most of the rambling (mine) above and that's fine I just think they should be less of them and those should be more definite.

 

having had the occasional insight to the JT I don't envy the task the JT has in front of them.

 

I would also say that I do appreciate the work that you all put in and hope that you keep it going, I just don't necessarily understand it all, but then I am ginger(ish).

 

if any (or all) of that makes sense then drugs truly don't work

[B.C.G. JAG]

The Trust is the recognised vehicle for Fan representation. That is all fans. It (should) represent what we the fans want from it within the Club's structures. If you don't believe it represents you then you should actively try and change the Trust's polices. In what is probably a very bad analogy, if you don't believe the Government represents your views then you vote and argue accordingly to change it into something that does represent you, whilst accepting the majority verdict. The big difference here though is that The Trust isn't a shady, sinister organisation like our Government (ahem), but simply a group of fans trying to hold the Club to account. But, unless people are willing to engage in that democratic and open process then I really don't think they should complain about what the Trust is. Standing outside and complaining is just nihilistic and pointless.

 

I've said this in another thread, but the Trust guys that post on this forum are all just regular fans like you and me, but they stepped up to the plate during the initial Propco discussions to add their professional expertise to the fans understanding of what was happening. That's a lot of late nights and hard work on our behalf. For that I think we should all be grateful. Whether what happened next was right or not is debatable but I at least understand the difficult position they were in, particularly without a political mandate from us, whilst similarly constrained by oaths of confidentiality. I myself might not have been quite so level headed as anyone who has read one of my posts might be inclined to believe.

 

The next year or so is going to be critical for our club. I want a fan on the Club Board arguing for us. I want them to have that political mandate this time and know that they can walk into that room with their head held high, knowing that they actually truly represent a majority of the fans, whilst half that Board represent no-one and no money. I want that person taken seriously, and that only happens when we debate the issues and give the Trust a clear policy direction. Standing outside being snide doesn't help. Be critical yes, but be constructive at least. It's not arrogance to say it's 'your' Trust, it is, but it will only ever be the Trust that we make it. We will only ever have the Trust Board that we elect and they will only ever take forward the polices that we instruct them to. I personally think we need a much more thorough debate at the Board Elections to give that some legitimacy to whoever the Rep is.

 

I don't know Morag, and I would personally like to see a proper hustings of rep candidates and hear all their ideas, but putting that aside, it is horrendously worrying that the Club now appears to moving into these dark times without us having a seat at the table. Maybe they will invite a fan's Rep soon, but the fact that they haven't yet suggests to me either complete organisational incompetence on the part of the Club, or a real crisis at the Club. Let's put the snidey remarks to the side for now, and let's worry about the Community stuff later, because right now I would suggest that the future of the Club itself is looking very very bleak and we should all be hugely concerned about why this situation has arisen. We need to get a fan back in that boardroom as soon as possible.

 

Shouldn't we really be discussing how we react as fans if the Club denies us an Ambassador? A Club Board that is unwilling to work with a representative of the fans should face the full wrath of the fans. If we can't see that, or can't rise to it, then we get what we deserve - to have the football club we all love to be shat into oblivion by Cowan and Co. Let's get our priorities straight here.

Edited August 31, 2010 by B.C.G. JAG

[northernsoul]

Not surprised at all. Certain folk in that Board don't give two hoots about the fans and never have.

[Steven H]

 

<snip>

 

Shouldn't we really be discussing how we react as fans if the Club denies us an Ambassador? A Club Board that is unwilling to work with a representative of the fans should face the full wrath of the fans. If we can't see that, or can't rise to it, then we get what we deserve - to have the football club we all love to be shat into oblivion by Cowan and Co. Let's get our priorities straight here.

 

Good post, this bit in particular hits the nail on the head. I haven't been a big advocate of the Fan Rep on the BoD but only because of the difficult position he/she is in with regard to confidentiality rules that govern what can and can't be repeated to the Jags Trust Board (and then the wider fan base). However, the fact the Club Board seem to have decided they no longer want/need a Fan Rep at meetings etc is another smack in the puss to ALL fans imo. Will be interesting to see what comes of the discussion between the Club and the Jags Trust but I think this should worry us all regardless of what you think of the Jags Trust. Would another fans representative body (which many seem to want) be treated better? Going by this Club Boards history I seriously doubt it, so whether you want one or the other it doesn't matter...we'll still be treated as insignificant.

 

Time to take a stand ladies and gents, what can be done before this meeting tho?

Edited August 31, 2010 by Steven H

[alx]

Isn't a more confrontational relationship between the board and Trust more appropriate these days anyway? The last time this all kicked off my attitude was give the club nothing unless it's swapped for shares. This propco thing that's happened since has made it too complicated for dafties like me to understand now.

[Ma Ba']

Chairman has advised the Trust board that the Club needs to “consider how best to represent [the fan’s] views. Ideally this includes the Jagstrust…”. The Club Chairman would also like to see the Trust “broaden its appeal and concentrate on activity which directly benefits the club in a tangible way”.

 

The BOD have a ferkin cheek with comments like these, the reason the JT cannot 'represent all the fans, and broaden its appeal' is BECAUSE of the close links with the BOD and the 'confidentiality' agreement.

 

The BOD have really lost the plot entierly on this one, the main reason for not participating in the JT is because it is now seen (by some) as a puppet arm of the BOD.

 

BTW many many thanks to Keiron for his contribution to the club, much appreciated.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Ma Ba'

[Ma Ba']

Chairman has advised the Trust board that the Club needs to “consider how best to represent [the fan’s] views. Ideally this includes the Jagstrust…”. The Club Chairman would also like to see the Trust “broaden its appeal and concentrate on activity which directly benefits the club in a tangible way”.

 

I think many people (having spent some time chatting with quite a few people (long time Jags fans) on saturday) think the time is now for a fans body who are completely remote from the club to voice views and perhaps raise funds to attempt to take over the club when it eventually goes t1ts up in a few years time.

[GrantB]

I think many people (having spent some time chatting with quite a few people (long time Jags fans) on saturday) think the time is now for a fans body who are completely remote from the club to voice views and perhaps raise funds to attempt to take over the club when it eventually goes t1ts up in a few years time.

 

I'd join that in a heartbeat.

[falklandal1]

I'd join that in a heartbeat.

 

count me in