Meister Jag Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 The dictatorship of the proletariat is the most ironic thing ever concocted. But you do know that that the literal meaning has to be explored As I'm sure you'll be aware, the word ‘dictatorship’ is a throw-back reference to ancient Roman that provided for an emergency exercise of power by a trusted citizen i.e. stand in leader. If I recall correctly, for six months at the most. Its basic aim was to preserve the republican status quo in defence of the new Sate against a hostile power - counter revolutionaries in the time of the Bolsheviks. This was directed against the very elements who might seek authoritarian "dictatorship". At least until Caesar destroyed the republican dictatura by going on to declare himself “dictator” in permanence. Stalin later followed this path. Think I've just bored the a*se of myself. With apologies for being a boring pedantic c***! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy davie Posted December 24, 2010 Report Share Posted December 24, 2010 I've met one or two of the witnesses who testified against him in this and the original court case, albeit a good few years ago now. But I'm as sure as I'll ever be that they are good, honest, committed socialists and that they are the real victims in this, not Tommy and his wife. And does that include the unbelievably scummy "best man" who taped TS and handed the tape over to the NotW for £200,000 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 And does that include the unbelievably scummy "best man" who taped TS and handed the tape over to the NotW for £200,000 ? No - I've never met McNeilage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 But you do know that that the literal meaning has to be explored As I'm sure you'll be aware, the word ‘dictatorship’ is a throw-back reference to ancient Roman that provided for an emergency exercise of power by a trusted citizen i.e. stand in leader. If I recall correctly, for six months at the most. Its basic aim was to preserve the republican status quo in defence of the new Sate against a hostile power - counter revolutionaries in the time of the Bolsheviks. This was directed against the very elements who might seek authoritarian "dictatorship". At least until Caesar destroyed the republican dictatura by going on to declare himself “dictator” in permanence. Stalin later followed this path. Think I've just bored the a*se of myself. With apologies for being a boring pedantic c***! All power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Dictatorship, no matter its motive, is absolute exercise of power, Comrade Anyway, Merry Christmas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Tommy Sheridan is in no sense a revolutionary. His role is to prop up the parliamentary illusions to defend the capitalist state. We need a real revolutionary and internationalist leadership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Tommy Sheridan is in no sense a revolutionary. His role is to prop up the parliamentary illusions to defend the capitalist state. We need a real revolutionary and internationalist leadership. are you Meister Jag in diguise??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Tommy Sheridan is in no sense a revolutionary. His role is to prop up the parliamentary illusions to defend the capitalist state. We need a real revolutionary and internationalist leadership. Anyone particular in mind, comrade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Anyone particular in mind, comrade? Boris Johnson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamiltonjag Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Boris Johnson The "fat albino with Down's Syndrome"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Anyone particular in mind, comrade? Pikachu Blackpool Jags, I choose you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackpool Jags Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 Pikachu Blackpool Jags, I choose you! Nah, the red and yellow yes, but Pikachu has charisma - a necessary quality, apparently - so that rules me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 (edited) I'm with you on all of the above, MJ, but the reason I'm happy to see Sheridan banged up is precisely because of the damage he did to the Left cause in Scotland, and how he set back the cause of socialism more than a hunner Thatchers could ever have done. You're making me see him in a better light now - might just be the Christmas bevvy though. Socialism basically involves taking money from people who've worked hard to earn it and handing it to the workshy and feckless. My hatred of socialism began at secondary school when it was clear that the majority of teachers were socialists - their copies of the Guardian, leather elbow patches and beards gave them away - and that was just the women! I'm going to drink a toast to Baroness Thatcher now . Edited December 25, 2010 by Charlie Endell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin energy Posted December 25, 2010 Report Share Posted December 25, 2010 You're making me see him in a better light now - might just be the Christmas bevvy though. Socialism basically involves taking money from people who've worked hard to earn it and handing it to the workshy and feckless. My hatred of socialism began at secondary school when it was clear that the majority of teachers were socialists - their copies of the Guardian, leather elbow patches and beards gave them away - and that was just the women! I'm going to drink a toast to Baroness Thatcher now . Thanks to Rupert Mudoch for a great christmas Speech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 You're making me see him in a better light now - might just be the Christmas bevvy though. Socialism basically involves taking money from people who've worked hard to earn it and handing it to the workshy and feckless. My hatred of socialism began at secondary school when it was clear that the majority of teachers were socialists - their copies of the Guardian, leather elbow patches and beards gave them away - and that was just the women! I'm going to drink a toast to Baroness Thatcher now . No, socialism means abolition of money, state, market, wage labour. Working hard under capitalism? Labour under capitalism is alienated, so it is natural that people hate labour. Under socialism, people will enjoy labour as the realisation of their creative nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodstock Jag Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Socialism basically involves taking money from people who've worked hard to earn it and handing it to the workshy and feckless. My hatred of socialism began at secondary school when it was clear that the majority of teachers were socialists - their copies of the Guardian, leather elbow patches and beards gave them away - and that was just the women! I'm going to drink a toast to Baroness Thatcher now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaggybunnet Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 No, socialism means abolition of money, state, market, wage labour. Working hard under capitalism? Labour under capitalism is alienated, so it is natural that people hate labour. Under socialism, people will enjoy labour as the realisation of their creative nature. this could not happen under socialism we would all be the same with no one being able to express themselves in case they were thought to be furthering capitalism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 No, socialism means abolition of money, state, market, wage labour. Working hard under capitalism? Labour under capitalism is alienated, so it is natural that people hate labour. Under socialism, people will enjoy labour as the realisation of their creative nature. Thank you Kim Jong-il, that was wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Thank you Kim Jong-il, that was wonderful. The DPR Korea is in no sense socialist, because the working class is alienated and suppressed, while the bureaucracy enjoys the higher living standards. In the term of Trotskyism this is called "deformed workers' state", which means there is no real proletarian rule after abolition of capitalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 (edited) The DPR Korea is in no sense socialist, because the working class is alienated and suppressed, while the bureaucracy enjoys the higher living standards. In the term of Trotskyism this is called "deformed workers' state", which means there is no real proletarian rule after abolition of capitalism. Your English has come along a treat . If you're not an admirer of the good ol' DPR then when do you have its flag in your profile? Edited December 26, 2010 by Charlie Endell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Your English has come along a treat . If you're not an admirer of the good ol' DPR then when do you have its flag in your profile? While I am a Japanese national, ethnically I have a Korean origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Endell Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 While I am a Japanese national, ethnically I have a Korean origin. Fair enough, but that flag is allied to a particular regime, not Korea in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Fair enough, but that flag is allied to a particular regime, not Korea in general. Unfortunately, the Korean communities in Japan have been divided by political lines. While Mindan supports the Republic of Korea, the Chongryon (General Association of the Korean Residents in Japan) supports the DPR Korea. I was raised in a Chongryon family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Unfortunately, the Korean communities in Japan have been divided by political lines. While Mindan supports the Republic of Korea, the Chongryon (General Association of the Korean Residents in Japan) supports the DPR Korea. I was raised in a Chongryon family. Are both groups Zainichi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Are both groups Zainichi? Yes of course. And there are also Kantôren, the Association for a United and Democratic Korea in Japan. And there are many unaffiliated Koreans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted December 26, 2010 Report Share Posted December 26, 2010 Are both groups Zainichi? By the way, "chi" (ち) is the Hepburn-system which is linguistically invalid. In the Nipponsiki (Japanese system), ち is "ti". The Nipponsiki is internationally recognised (e.g. ISO3602) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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