Ptfc Accounts To 31St May 2010

[Fawlty Towers]

The Club has released the latest set of accounts (they are on the companies house website). A net loss of £117,117 was made and our liabilities exceed the assets by £773,356. Unfortunately as I am rubbish at IT issues I can't attach a link but if someone who knows what they are doing wants to contact me I can e-mail them and they can post them on here.

[gianlucatoni]

The Club has released the latest set of accounts (they are on the companies house website). A net loss of £117,117 was made and our liabilities exceed the assets by £773,356. Unfortunately as I am rubbish at IT issues I can't attach a link but if someone who knows what they are doing wants to contact me I can e-mail them and they can post them on here.

 

fk me that sounds like 3/4 of a million reasons to be worried.

[Vom Itorium]

Does that take into account their shares in PlopCo though?

[Fawlty Towers]

Does that take into account their shares in PlopCo though?

 

To be honest I don't know as there is less info in the accounts than in previous years, if someone who knows how to read these and can give an "idiots guide" to what they are saying - are things better or worse thatn we would expect - wants to PM me with their e-mail address I will send them over.

[McKennan]

I would guess having liabilities that exceed assets by near three quarters of a million quid is something to get worried about. Hopefully, we can keep treading water.

 

I take it this is the last set of bad results we can lay at the door of Allan Cowan and Tom Hughes?

[Fawlty Towers]

I would guess having liabilities that exceed assets by near three quarters of a million quid is something to get worried about. Hopefully, we can keep treading water.

 

I take it this is the last set of bad results we can lay at the door of Allan Cowan and Tom Hughes?

 

Comparing the figures for this set of accounts with the last set:

 

2009 - Loss of £220,788 & liabilities exceeding assets by £845,811

 

2010 - Loss of £117,117 & liabilities exceeding assets by £773,356

 

Both the figures for this set of accounts are down on the previous one so that, to my untrained eye, is positive but not being an accountant it could be that there are negatives hidden in the figures somewhere.

[McKennan]

That's what's known as a crumb of comfort.

[Fawlty Towers]

That's what's known as a crumb of comfort.

 

A crumb can be a feast to a starving man!

[McKennan]

Erm ... really? I realise you're a paragon of hope in these straitened times, Martin, but that's taking your sunny outlook to the extreme.

[Steven H]

Erm ... really? I realise you're a paragon of hope in these straitened times, Martin, but that's taking your sunny outlook to the extreme.

 

Why? We cut our loses by over £100k....that's us roughly 50% closer to that magic break even figure. Next year should see further improvement in this area IF we can survive long enough to have accounts next year. Cash flow is the problem tho so, although this is progress, there is still a way to go yet. But it looks like we're getting there (with these figures and with ways in which to raise more funds for the Club).

[Fawlty Towers]

Why? We cut our loses by over £100k....that's us roughly 50% closer to that magic break even figure. Next year should see further improvement in this area IF we can survive long enough to have accounts next year. Cash flow is the problem tho so, although this is progress, there is still a way to go yet. But it looks like we're getting there (with these figures and with ways in which to raise more funds for the Club).

 

We did get about £200,000 in transfer fees with the sale of Harkins & Twaddle which won't be something that happens every season but hopefully the £900,000 invested through PropCo will see our interest repayments reduced and the Board will be working hard on new ways of generating income.

[McKennan]

Why? We cut our loses by over £100k....that's us roughly 50% closer to that magic break even figure. Next year should see further improvement in this area IF we can survive long enough to have accounts next year. Cash flow is the problem tho so, although this is progress, there is still a way to go yet. But it looks like we're getting there (with these figures and with ways in which to raise more funds for the Club).

 

 

Damn, you almost had me convinced, Steven. Do the figures tell us how these reduced losses (still a loss) were achieved?

[McKennan]

We did get about £200,000 in transfer fees with the sale of Harkins & Twaddle which won't be something that happens every season but hopefully the £900,000 invested through PropCo will see our interest repayments reduced and the Board will be working hard on new ways of generating income.

 

 

I look forward to hearing about exciting initiatives to get a gnarled cynic like myself to part with more his cash.

[Fawlty Towers]

Damn, you almost had me convinced, Steven. Do the figures tell us how these reduced losses (still a loss) were achieved?

 

The accounts are abbreviated so don't show Turnover or Expenditure therefore we don't know if the smaller than normal loss is down to increased turnover, reduced expenditure or some combination of the two. I have passed the accounts to a couple of people who should be able to draw better conclusions from them than I can and hopefully they will be able to post something here.

[Fawlty Towers]

I look forward to hearing about exciting initiatives to get a gnarled cynic like myself to part with more his cash.

 

I believe the Board are investing in several cans of WD40 to loosen up the padlock on your wallet!

[McKennan]

I believe the Board are investing in several cans of WD40 to loosen up the padlock on your wallet!

 

 

:lol: Martin, if I beat you to the lottery tonight I'll become the club's shirt non-sponsor. That will depend on a couple of other factors, including certain people getting their arses handed them on the way out of Firhill forever. (I forgot my megalomania pill this morning.)

 

D'you think your lottery win will mean undoing the propco deal?

[McKennan]

I believe the Board are investing in several cans of WD40 to loosen up the padlock on your wallet!

 

 

Hmm ... that'd be nice. Save the pennies on the WD40, Board. Perhaps one of your number would be kind enough to reply to the communication I sent during the summer. (Yes, I'm grandstanding.)

[Fawlty Towers]

:lol: Martin, if I beat you to the lottery tonight I'll become the club's shirt non-sponsor. That will depend on a couple of other factors, including certain people getting their arses handed them on the way out of Firhill forever. (I forgot my megalomania pill this morning.)

 

D'you think your lottery win will mean undoing the propco deal?

 

Don't worry, once I win the lottery the stadium will make the Amsterdam Arena look like Brockville on a bad day!

[Steven H]

Damn, you almost had me convinced, Steven. Do the figures tell us how these reduced losses (still a loss) were achieved?

 

Have a feeling you're being a tad sarcastic

 

Not sure, could be the Harkins/Twaddle transfer fee's? But they went to pay the tax man apparently. Could be to do with the cost cutting that occurred in that year compared to the year before . Could be partly as a result of paying less interest to the bank after the Propco deal, I don't really know.

 

But if we lost over £220k one year, and over £115k the following year I'd say that's progress. If paying less interest to the bank over the next 12 months of accounts to be published bring the loss figure down some more then it points to going in the right direction...slowly but surely.

 

Are you hinting that this small level of optimism is misplaced? If so, care to explain why?

[yoda-jag]

I look forward to hearing about exciting initiatives to get a gnarled cynic like myself to part with more his cash.

 

 

How much a year do you contibute to PTFC coffers all the way across that wee pond from CHicago? Club merchandise, programmmes, number of home games a season, or other ways.

(Not a pop, fishing trip, or opening a nomads v season ticket/regular attendee debate or anything else, just genuinely curious as to how much cash is spent by you in comparison to those who attend week in/week out - Nomads are invalusable to the club, but your comment(s) like the above just made me wonder)

[McKennan]

Bugger! I knew I'd forgotten to change something.

 

Wrong question, Yoda-Jag. Chide me if you like, but the questions should be directed at the club. Perhaps if it improved the (oh god, here goes) 'product' on the park, the matchday experience, you know, improving what it offers to fans/customers for their season ticket/£17 at the gate it might get a hell of a lot more people interested and (internet marketing watchword alert) becoming advocates for Partick Thistle.

 

As it stands, shit football, a backsliding in the standard of catering, dwindling respect for the ability of management, players, executives, crumbling infrastructure and all the other horrible stuff that's been going on have just about exhausted this Jags fan's store of goodwill. Thistle is a village. I don't have to be on Garscube Road to smell the decay and desperation.

[stolenscone]

Perhaps if it improved the (oh god, here goes) 'product' on the park, the matchday experience, you know, improving what it offers to fans/customers for their season ticket/£17 at the gate it might get a hell of a lot more people interested and (internet marketing watchword alert) becoming advocates for Partick Thistle.

 

It's rather a circular argument though, isn't it? The product on the park is poor because the players aren't very good. The players aren't very good because we have no money to attract better players. We have no money because not enough people turn up at the home games to support the team.

 

What the Board should be doing (in my 'umble opinion) is demonstrating that the Club is being run as a tight ship, that wastage has been reduced insofar as possible, so that as much as possible of that £17 can go towards the playing budget and improving things on the park, but the bottom line is that everyone is wasting their time, and the Club is already dead if we can't get enough people through the turnstyles to allow us to at least break even each year. That's the core business here - much of the rest is a sideshow.

 

(Of course, perhaps we already do generate enough cash, and the reason for the losses is that the Board are having a jolly old time p***ing the Club's turnover up the wall - it's very difficult to know from the figures provided by the accounts, but that's a heck of a lot of p***ing, and I don't honestly believe that's the whole story here.)

 

If everyone sits back and points a finger instead of going to matches, then the game's a bogey.

[Gucci]

The Club has released the latest set of accounts (they are on the companies house website). A net loss of £117,117 was made and our liabilities exceed the assets by £773,356. Unfortunately as I am rubbish at IT issues I can't attach a link but if someone who knows what they are doing wants to contact me I can e-mail them and they can post them on here.

 

Just had a quick look at the accounts and our net current liabilities are indeed £773,356 but this doesn't include our fixed assets (ie Firhill and propco investment) we therefore have net assets of £4,526,121.

[lady-isobel-barnett]

It's rather a circular argument though, isn't it? The product on the park is poor because the players aren't very good. The players aren't very good because we have no money to attract better players. We have no money because not enough people turn up at the home games to support the team.

Above is largely unarguable but the saving grace is we're not alone. Every club in the division is facing the same problem. As way of an example I don't believe a team of similar quality to the current Raith Rovers side would have been sitting on top of the league at this time in past seasons. In my mind they're punching against their weight a bit similar to us a couple of seasons back. This is a kinda long way of saying I sense that a sizeable proportion of our missing fans (needed to stop this vicious circle as described above) are lost to football in general.

Had we been playing with better quality, say enough for three extra wins that would put us in third position and in contention, I doubt that attendances at Firhill would've increased by anything more than a marginal increase.

One of many reasons I'm attracted to a larger league would be clubs like ourselves would have the option of going part time (or more likely semi part time) without the spectre of almost certain relegation hanging over us. That may sound too negative for some but I rather like the idea of having a team to watch for years to come.

[Allan Heron]

Above is largely unarguable but the saving grace is we're not alone. Every club in the division is facing the same problem. As way of an example I don't believe a team of similar quality to the current Raith Rovers side would have been sitting on top of the league at this time in past seasons. In my mind they're punching against their weight a bit similar to us a couple of seasons back. This is a kinda long way of saying I sense that a sizeable proportion of our missing fans (needed to stop this vicious circle as described above) are lost to football in general.

Had we been playing with better quality, say enough for three extra wins that would put us in third position and in contention, I doubt that attendances at Firhill would've increased by anything more than a marginal increase.

One of many reasons I'm attracted to a larger league would be clubs like ourselves would have the option of going part time (or more likely semi part time) without the spectre of almost certain relegation hanging over us. That may sound too negative for some but I rather like the idea of having a team to watch for years to come.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with this - I don't believe there's anything that can be done that will result in any significant increase in attendances. And there's a downward trend in away attendances as well.

 

I also agree that there is no long term alternative to part time football whether that's in whole or in part. I might be inclined to argue the case that any board that continues to try to sustain full time football in the current situation of both ourselves and football in Scotland in general are in danger of being irresponsible. It's difficult not to look at the past few seasons and see that we do indeed have a full time squad but one which is reducing in both quality and quantity with each passing year. At what point do we call the game a bogey?

Edited December 6, 2010 by Allan Heron