Lenziejag2 Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 BBC Scotland is now reporting that Doncaster will ask his SPL pals to vote on a 10-team SPL on 18 April - and with it a 12-team second tier. Excuse me! He (and they) have no right to "impose" a second tier on SFL clubs! We must demand that the SFL authorities INSIST on a 2x16-team structure for the revised SFL. This is an opportunity for the real punters to make a lot of NOISE and get this point across to the SFL bigwigs. Please let's get this topic back to the top of the forum list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda-jag Posted March 16, 2011 Report Share Posted March 16, 2011 BBC Scotland is now reporting that Doncaster will ask his SPL pals to vote on a 10-team SPL on 18 April - and with it a 12-team second tier. Excuse me! He (and they) have no right to "impose" a second tier on SFL clubs! We must demand that the SFL authorities INSIST on a 2x16-team structure for the revised SFL. This is an opportunity for the real punters to make a lot of NOISE and get this point across to the SFL bigwigs. Please let's get this topic back to the top of the forum list! Will it become known as the new Black Monday ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alx Posted March 17, 2011 Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Oh great a 12 team league, just what we need.... either a split or more games on tuesday nights to cancel. AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 OK - so now we know that the Ibrox team are out of Europe, and once they get their next litle encounter with the Parkhead team out of the way this weekend, they will turn their attention to league reconstruction. Are we ready? When are we going to make our big move for a 2x16-team SFL? C'mon - it's the punters who matter here! C'mon the Jags! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McKennan Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 (Goes back to filing toenails, whistling.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Regrettably, if we just file our toenails and whistle, then we will be stuck with whatever Doncaster and his pals deign to let us have. We really do have to INSIST on getting a 2x16-team SFL structure, precisely so that we are not stuck with the 4xeverybody drudgery which is sure to be inflicted on the 10-team SPL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Regrettably, if we just file our toenails and whistle, then we will be stuck with whatever Doncaster and his pals deign to let us have. We really do have to INSIST on getting a 2x16-team SFL structure, precisely so that we are not stuck with the 4xeverybody drudgery which is sure to be inflicted on the 10-team SPL. Anyone who has the misfortune to read my posts will know I'm one of the most anti, to use the above excellent phrasing, "4xeverybody drudgery". However, and there's an element of taking the devil's dick advocaat here, why couldn't/don't the SFL see the damage their 3x leagues of 10 have/are doing to our game? After all they could have at any point in the last (I really can't remember) years have introduced a couple of clubs (eg Spartans & Cove Rangers) into the SFL set up and launched two leagues of sixteen. The answer is of course they weren't prepared to open up the SFL closed shop and thus the bottom of the two leagues would be even more meaningless. The most salient point regarding the Jags is that the current Doncaster proposal will probably be better for us than the status quo. It will be a complete mess, it will disregard fan opinion, it will not offer anything sustainable BUT it will be better than the current SFL set up. In a way Lenziejag2 and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. The big difference is that I have absolutely no confidence in the SFL and if pushed would say I have slightly more confidence in the SPL. That's so far from a ringing endorsement of the SPL I can go but our mess we're currently in lies far more at the feet of the SFL than the other charlatans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hebridean jag Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Anyone who has the misfortune to read my posts will know I'm one of the most anti, to use the above excellent phrasing, "4xeverybody drudgery". However, and there's an element of taking the devil's dick advocaat here, why couldn't/don't the SFL see the damage their 3x leagues of 10 have/are doing to our game? After all they could have at any point in the last (I really can't remember) years have introduced a couple of clubs (eg Spartans & Cove Rangers) into the SFL set up and launched two leagues of sixteen. The answer is of course they weren't prepared to open up the SFL closed shop and thus the bottom of the two leagues would be even more meaningless. The most salient point regarding the Jags is that the current Doncaster proposal will probably be better for us than the status quo. It will be a complete mess, it will disregard fan opinion, it will not offer anything sustainable BUT it will be better than the current SFL set up. In a way Lenziejag2 and I are singing from the same hymn sheet. The big difference is that I have absolutely no confidence in the SFL and if pushed would say I have slightly more confidence in the SPL. That's so far from a ringing endorsement of the SPL I can go but our mess we're currently in lies far more at the feet of the SFL than the other charlatans. Pretty much agree with everything she says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 21, 2011 Report Share Posted March 21, 2011 Taking the current league standings as an indicator, let's have a look at which teams might be in a 16-team SFL First Division. If one team gets promoted, let's assume for the moment that it is Raith Rovers. To get the SPL to TEN teams would need THREE to come down to SFL1 - on present form they would be Hamilton, St Mirren and Aberdeen. If ONE team gets relegated from SFL1 to SFL2 that is likely to be Stirling Albion. The champions of SFL2 - currently Livingston - would come up, and would be accompanied by FOUR more teams in order to bring the revised SFL1 up to 16 teams. A 16-team SFL1 could have the following members: Dunfermline, Hamilton, St Mirren, Aberdeen, Falkirk, QotS, Morton, Dundee, PTFC, Cowdenbeath, Ross County, Livingston, Ayr, Brechin, Forfar and East Fife. How does that grab you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 23, 2011 Report Share Posted March 23, 2011 48 hours have elapsed since this post. Are we really not interested in discussing the future structure of the SFL? The alternative is (potentially) 44 matches of drudgery, in a structure of Doncaster's choosing/imposition. How many Jags fans are really willing to "buy into" such a structure - literally - by forking out for a season ticket with that on the menu? Surely, there must be some reaction out there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Devil's Point Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Cowdenbeath, Ross County, Livingston, Ayr, Brechin, Forfar and East Fife. How does that grab you? Hmm, would the away stand actually open for any of these games? I'm sympathetic to wanting variation in fixtures but I'd rather see more cup football rather than lots of meaningless league games. A rearrangement of the League Cup (on a regional basis) would provide a better fixture balance IMO. Lots of promotion and relegation might be exciting in a way, but it would also devalue a promotion or relegation. It would also make it difficult for clubs to budget sensibly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggernaut Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Nobody seems to have commented on the idea that I touted in all seriousness: each team plays each other only twice in the league, regardless of the size of the league. That could translate either into a game only every other week, or else a 2-3-month winter shutdown. Less drudgery from umpteen matches against the same opposition, less football in general, hence keeping it fresh, more meaningful games, and it would also free up time for fans to get other things done. To overcome the financial shortfall, simply double the cost of entry to each match - it wouldn't cost fans any more in the long run, but would do their waistlines good as there would presumably be fewer pies eaten in the course of a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hmm, would the away stand actually open for any of these games? I'm sympathetic to wanting variation in fixtures but I'd rather see more cup football rather than lots of meaningless league games. A rearrangement of the League Cup (on a regional basis) would provide a better fixture balance IMO. Lots of promotion and relegation might be exciting in a way, but it would also devalue a promotion or relegation. It would also make it difficult for clubs to budget sensibly. In leagues of 16 there would be 6 less games than at present so I don't feel the "lots of meaningless league games" is a legitimate argument against. To supplement the loss of league games a return to mini league (teams of 5 playing home & away) set up in the League Cup (regionalised or not) would ensure 19 home games against the present 18 (or 19 if your team is drawn at home in the League Cup). I'm of course coming from the anything but the current repetitive 4+ times a season stable. You don't need to go back more than 36 hours to see the effects of the the status quo league system when only 651 folk turned up at Forthbank for the 3rd time this season and the 5th match between the clubs in 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alx Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm having serious trouble making Tuesday night games this year. Anything that adds more Tuesday nights will result in me chucking my season ticket. I don't mind missing one game, two at a push. But when it gets to three games, that's the line crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Last night's results (29th March) might now suggest Dunfermline for promotion to the SPL, and re-confirm Livingston coming up and Stirling going down. Who would forum-members wish to see in a 16-team SFL1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven H Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Last night's results (29th March) might now suggest Dunfermline for promotion to the SPL, and re-confirm Livingston coming up and Stirling going down. Who would forum-members wish to see in a 16-team SFL1? Rankers and Smellic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinny Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Last night's results (29th March) might now suggest Dunfermline for promotion to the SPL, and re-confirm Livingston coming up and Stirling going down. Who would forum-members wish to see in a 16-team SFL1? Going from current standings, we would see: Hamilton Raith Falkirk QoS Us Morton Dundee County Cowdenbeath Stirling Livingston Brechin Ayr Forfar Airdrie East Fife I personally wouldn't mind that at all. Some boring teams in there (Livi, Falkirk) - but we would only have to travel to each one once in the league. Much less familiarity with some of those clubs, Brechin and East Fife particularly, which would probably be decent trips. If Falkirk were to do the unimaginable there would be four Fife teams in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Going from current standings, we would see: Hamilton Raith Falkirk QoS Us Morton Dundee County Cowdenbeath Stirling Livingston Brechin Ayr Forfar Airdrie East Fife I personally wouldn't mind that at all. Some boring teams in there (Livi, Falkirk) - but we would only have to travel to each one once in the league. Much less familiarity with some of those clubs, Brechin and East Fife particularly, which would probably be decent trips. If Falkirk were to do the unimaginable there would be four Fife teams in the league. I totally agree that we need something like 16 + 16 but our opinions are not going to be heard by Doncaster and the others, and even if they were heard they'd be ignored. Suggest a way that they will pay attention and I'll sit up. Sad to say, I think our game is damaged beyond repair, and I don't see a way back. As a club we may keep going for years and hopefully many decades to come but it looks more like ever decreasing circles to me, diminishing returns, and so on, towards I don't know what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenziejag2 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Fine, but beep0608's post doesn't seem to have Stirling getting relegated. Presumably we would need to promote another team from the current SFL2 in order to get 16 teams into the "new" SFL1. And yes, by all means have mini-leagues for the League Cup in order to top up the number of guaranteed games per season. We must insist on a 2x16-team structure for the SFL simply to offer a fresher 'product' to the punters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigesige00 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 I totally agree that we need something like 16 + 16 but our opinions are not going to be heard by Doncaster and the others, and even if they were heard they'd be ignored. Suggest a way that they will pay attention and I'll sit up. Sad to say, I think our game is damaged beyond repair, and I don't see a way back. As a club we may keep going for years and hopefully many decades to come but it looks more like ever decreasing circles to me, diminishing returns, and so on, towards I don't know what. To avoid confusion, the name "SFL" should not be used. The new unified league's name would probably be "AFLS" (Association Football League of Scotland). And the AFLS should have 3 divisions, 48 clubs. Clubs such as Cove Rangers, Spartans, Edinburgh City should be invited to the new league. And there should be a relegation system. The bottom team of the AFLS 3rd Division should be relegated; the 2nd bottom team should face the relegation/promotion playoffs with the winners of the East of Scotland League, West of Scotland League and Highland League. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stillresigned Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 It seems once again that Scottish football is reverting to its stereotypical image as a laughing stock!I'm really past the point of caring, the views of the ordinary punter and the serious underlying problems associated with football, particularly in this city are waived away as if they were acts of God or nature. Certainly nothing to do with football. Neither, has their been any serious consideration giving to summer football,obviously the Scottish football authorities think that we serfs like nothing better than sitting(or occasionally if we are given a real treat) standing in the pissing rain and snow! I better get back to ploughing my field before my Lord notices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beep0608 Posted March 31, 2011 Report Share Posted March 31, 2011 It seems once again that Scottish football is reverting to its stereotypical image as a laughing stock!I'm really past the point of caring, the views of the ordinary punter and the serious underlying problems associated with football, particularly in this city are waived away as if they were acts of God or nature. Certainly nothing to do with football. Neither, has their been any serious consideration giving to summer football,obviously the Scottish football authorities think that we serfs like nothing better than sitting(or occasionally if we are given a real treat) standing in the pissing rain and snow! I better get back to ploughing my field before my Lord notices. I'm with you on most of that, sadly. I still care but where once I had hope of things changing, now I can't see anything but the same old same old. To touch on only one bit of it, I once hoped and believed that segregated education would go one day. Now I fear it's going the other way and nothing will ever get better in my lifetime, if ever. Pretty doomy, but it seems the only realistic view to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lady-isobel-barnett Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 I see the SPL have postponed the vote on a 10 team league. Nowhere near getting the necessary 11-1 in favour. Just typing the above brings home how ludicrously football is run in this country. They need 11 of their clubs to vote for a 10 club league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alx Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Just typing the above brings home how ludicrously football is run in this country. They need 11 of their clubs to vote for a 10 club league. I sniggered at first... and then thought..... that's a really handy rule! They can now only vote for a *bigger* league. Ha, ha, they didn't think of that I bet, they were of course just making it impossible to outvote the OF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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